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Tyazii
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07 Jan 2012, 8:14 pm

Telling a woman "You have the right to abort" is like opening a cell and telling a criminal "You have the right to walk out".

You do the crime, you do the time. When a crime is committed, the victim has more rights than the offender. This is no different. The resulted baby is not to blame, and shouldn't pay it's life for it.



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07 Jan 2012, 8:29 pm

Tyazii wrote:
Telling a woman "You have the right to abort" is like opening a cell and telling a criminal "You have the right to walk out".

You do the crime, you do the time. When a crime is committed, the victim has more rights than the offender. This is no different. The resulted baby is not to blame, and shouldn't pay it's life for it.


Yes! Woman do have a choice: They choose whether or not to have sex (at least that's how it should work in a perfect world. ) I'm entirely against abortion, but I believe it should only be allowed in certain cases, such as for rape victims and cases were the mother's life is in danger, my mother would be dead if it was completely banned.

By the way, the abortion debate has actually been going on for more than 100 years in the US, or at least it existed before the civil war.


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07 Jan 2012, 8:32 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I guess that nobody respects life, anymore.


Why would I respect life, it never respected me.


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07 Jan 2012, 8:33 pm

Second, how is giving woman the right to abort giving woman a choice? They are just as likely to be forced to abort as they are to be forced to have sex.


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07 Jan 2012, 8:40 pm

Tyazii wrote:
Telling a woman "You have the right to abort" is like opening a cell and telling a criminal "You have the right to walk out".

You do the crime, you do the time. When a crime is committed, the victim has more rights than the offender. This is no different. The resulted baby is not to blame, and shouldn't pay it's life for it.


What you posted is not even close to being the same thing. :roll: If a woman wants to abort for any reason she should be able to. Having babies put a horrible strain a woman's body sometimes women die from it. Others abort because they can't aford to raise a child properly. As for adoption not all kids get adopted some end up with foster families I knew three people who were raised in foster homes two of them were molested more than once by one of the foster family members or the other foster kids. They always told me they would have rather died then go into fostercare.

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There would be no Stephen Hawkins :lol:


He was not born disabled he developed some kind degenative disease. There are old film clips when he was abled bodied I believe.


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07 Jan 2012, 8:47 pm

Ganondox wrote:
Second, how is giving woman the right to abort giving woman a choice? They are just as likely to be forced to abort as they are to be forced to have sex.


Most women aren't forced to have sex, and even though I'm sure a number of women are coerced into abortion, I would imagine that it's their circumstances that force them to abort rather than someone else.

The entire thing boils down to yes, the baby is a person and alive. However, he's in the mothers body and will remain there for 40 weeks. Because it's her body and he's in it, her rights to her body supercede his right to life. Birth control is an extremely good option, but it does fail at times, even used correctly.

I'm not "for" abortion, but I'm for the woman having the say so about whether or not to carry a baby for 40 weeks.

Abortion has been around for much longer than the debate has been raging. Before surgical abortions, (and this includes the infamous coat hanger) herbs were used to induce abortion by women who didn't want to carry a baby. They are still used to this day. Regular birth control pills can be used to induce abortion in the first month if taken in a certain amount over a number of days.

I really think that the best solution to the abortion problem would be the invention of some sort of incubating device so the baby could be removed intact and placed in the device to grow and develop. I don't know if that will ever be possible, but if it were, then abortion might become obsolete. It would also be a boon for women who want to have babies but can't carry one to term.

Society doesn't ostracize or shun unwed mothers anymore, and you would think that would reduce the number of abortion, but it doesn't. Each woman has her own reason for aborting. I may not agree with their reason, but I have to respect the fact that if she doesn't want the baby to be in her body, she has the right to have the baby removed. It's a sad fact, but she has that right.


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07 Jan 2012, 8:55 pm

Tyazii wrote:
Telling a woman "You have the right to abort" is like opening a cell and telling a criminal "You have the right to walk out".

You do the crime, you do the time. When a crime is committed, the victim has more rights than the offender. This is no different. The resulted baby is not to blame, and shouldn't pay it's life for it.


Having a baby isn't a punishment for having sex. What 'crime' has the woman committed, exactly?

If you do think unprotected sex (or just accidents with contraception) is something that should be punished - don't you agree that it takes two to tango?


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07 Jan 2012, 8:58 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Tyazii wrote:
Telling a woman "You have the right to abort" is like opening a cell and telling a criminal "You have the right to walk out".

You do the crime, you do the time. When a crime is committed, the victim has more rights than the offender. This is no different. The resulted baby is not to blame, and shouldn't pay it's life for it.


Having a baby isn't a punishment for having sex. What 'crime' has the woman committed, exactly?

If you do think unprotected sex (or just accidents with contraception) is something that should be punished - don't you agree that it takes two to tango?


It's not punishment, it's consequences. If you are going to do something you should be willing to deal with the consequences. If you don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex, it's that easy.


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07 Jan 2012, 9:01 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Having a baby isn't a punishment for having sex. What 'crime' has the woman committed, exactly?

If you do think unprotected sex (or just accidents with contraception) is something that should be punished - don't you agree that it takes two to tango?


I was thinking the same thing can you imagine the freaky hang ups that poster must have. :lol:


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07 Jan 2012, 9:05 pm

Ganondox wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Tyazii wrote:
Telling a woman "You have the right to abort" is like opening a cell and telling a criminal "You have the right to walk out".

You do the crime, you do the time. When a crime is committed, the victim has more rights than the offender. This is no different. The resulted baby is not to blame, and shouldn't pay it's life for it.


Having a baby isn't a punishment for having sex. What 'crime' has the woman committed, exactly?

If you do think unprotected sex (or just accidents with contraception) is something that should be punished - don't you agree that it takes two to tango?


It's not punishment, it's consequences. If you are going to do something you should be willing to deal with the consequences. If you don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex, it's that easy.


No, it's not. People will have sex regardless of whether or not they can deal with the consequences. Why? beacuase the biological imperative is that strong. Plus, people can be coerced into doing it either by society or by their partner.

Why should sex have serious consequences? Why can't it just be recreational? I think some abortion opponents just dislike the idea that someone can have fun without the risk of some form of suffering...especially women. Women can't have fun without suffering, nosiree. It said so in the Bible, the minute Eve took a bite of that apple.


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07 Jan 2012, 9:11 pm

If surgical abortion were outlawed there would still be herbal abortion and abortion via high doses of birth control pills. Are those against keeping abortion legal prepared to outlaw those particular plants used in herbal abortion, and to outlaw birth control pills?


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07 Jan 2012, 9:13 pm

Todesking wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Having a baby isn't a punishment for having sex. What 'crime' has the woman committed, exactly?

If you do think unprotected sex (or just accidents with contraception) is something that should be punished - don't you agree that it takes two to tango?


I was thinking the same thing can you imagine the freaky hang ups that poster must have. :lol:


I blame religion.

I actually think legalised abortion shows that a society values life more and not less. If everyone got abortions when they (after much soul searching) decided they were not ready for children, then it would result in a world where the only children born would be wanted children.

We say that life is a miracle, yet we still act like it's some form of punishment inflicted on us by a deity.


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07 Jan 2012, 9:21 pm

If giving birth should be punishment for sex, then why not outlaw condoms and say that catching a disease is punishment for having sex with someone who has a disease?

I do not like the idea of abortion. Not at all. But I do think it should remain legal, because of the simple fact that the womans right to her body supercedes the babys right to life. Yes, thats very cold, but logically it's true. I wouldn't have an abortion and I would probably try and talk friends out of it. I would still support their decision if thats what they truly felt like they needed to do though.

I am pro choice, but just because I'm pro choice does not mean I'm pro abortion. It's a choice, yes. I think it's an ufortunate choice, and one that nobody should have to make, but as long as life is imperfect, abortion will always be around. It was around way before surgical abortion was invented.


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07 Jan 2012, 9:26 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
If surgical abortion were outlawed there would still be herbal abortion and abortion via high doses of birth control pills. Are those against keeping abortion legal prepared to outlaw those particular plants used in herbal abortion, and to outlaw birth control pills?


There was a particular tribe of Brazilian Indians (Guaikuru) who would have many self-induced abortions. Throughout their teens and twenties, the women would basically punch themselves in the stomach or jump off from heights to induce abortion. Then when they were in their 30s and they actually wanted children, they often found it hard to conceive because they'd screwed their body up.

They needed to abort because they were a nomad warrior tribe at constant war with the Portuguese. Kids were a bit of a hassle when you're moving around all the time. Plus hunter-gatherer tribes have to keep their population in check because their surroundings can only support a certain number of people without using agriculture. This is why most hunter-gatherer tribes practice either abortion or infanticide in times of stress.

So, basically abortion has always been with us and will never go away. I suppose that's not the issue, though, for pro-lifers. They don't want their state to condone it.


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07 Jan 2012, 9:32 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Tyazii wrote:
Telling a woman "You have the right to abort" is like opening a cell and telling a criminal "You have the right to walk out".

You do the crime, you do the time. When a crime is committed, the victim has more rights than the offender. This is no different. The resulted baby is not to blame, and shouldn't pay it's life for it.


Having a baby isn't a punishment for having sex. What 'crime' has the woman committed, exactly?

If you do think unprotected sex (or just accidents with contraception) is something that should be punished - don't you agree that it takes two to tango?


It's not punishment, it's consequences. If you are going to do something you should be willing to deal with the consequences. If you don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex, it's that easy.


No, it's not. People will have sex regardless of whether or not they can deal with the consequences. Why? beacuase the biological imperative is that strong. Plus, people can be coerced into doing it either by society or by their partner.

Why should sex have serious consequences? Why can't it just be recreational? I think some abortion opponents just dislike the idea that someone can have fun without the risk of some form of suffering...especially women. Women can't have fun without suffering, nosiree. It said so in the Bible, the minute Eve took a bite of that apple.


You can still have "sex" without having "sexual intercourse". Its more that in the past there was no birth control (this is debatable) so it's not fair to have it now? I dunno, I guess I'm just making excuses now to keep people from killing babies, as I don't want aspies to be exterminated. There, I said it.


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07 Jan 2012, 9:35 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
If giving birth should be punishment for sex, then why not outlaw condoms and say that catching a disease is punishment for having sex with someone who has a disease?


I've always suspected that that attitude lay at the heart of the Catholic Church's policy on contraception and abortion. They talk about the sanctity of life, but really I think it stems from hatred of sex. Sorry if that offends you, or anyone else...just my thoughts.


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