What if we're just ret*d?

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Many people who are legitimately ret*d contribute more to society than many who aren't. Why? Because they don't contribute a net negative, like many normal people do.

In Jr. High *middle school for others* I was ridiculed because I was on a special program and rode a special bus and because I was autistic people assumed I was mentally ret*d and this one kid kept calling me a ret*d until I displayed my superior intelligence and logic over him in science class then well he called me a freak. I cant win there but man the look on his face and pure jealousy comkbined with intellectual intimidation was priceless.

No. And this changes what exactly?



1. Perhaps. If they are given the chance.
2. A diagnosis is a useful tool but sure, it's not the be all and end all. You think we should get rid of them?

Why did you need a 'special bus'?

i suspect that Western culture is probably the only culture in the world were "different" people are accepted, even with some faults.

Look around and try to be thankful for what you do have.

It's not a cliche. Things could always be worse...much worse.


TheSunAlsoRises

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qF13urEo_Y

lol I love when I do that, too. Then I love watching as they have that false smirk on their face as they try to come up with something clever to say, but they always end up saying nothing after realizing there is absolutely nothing they can say to wipe the egg off their face.

Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear. What I'm saying is that people have become obsessed with the concept of normalcy, believing there to be a core set of attributes an individual must posses to be of value. In this manner I'm playing devils advocate by suggesting that such titles are meaningless, and that further more it is the differences that we posses as Autistic people that make our lives of value rather than subtract from it. What we should be doing is avoiding the concept of the superman who possesses a set of readily identifiable traits (social intelligence, etc) and instead look to the promise of the possibilities that our current conditions award us. For example we can easily see the great mathematicians among us who provide priceless work to our society everyday, or perhaps the autistic artists who give people an alternative outlook on life as we know it in manner all their own. But instead of looking at what has been done and what is possible for us as autistic men and women we instead focus on what has been said to be beyond our grasp because of our birth status. Not to sound accusatory, but you seem to be only propagating the theme of helplessness and inability, when it is by all accounts far more noble to wave the flag of possibility for a future in which we can understand our conditions, eventually recognizing our place in the world. As for the matter of happiness, that is a subjective concept which is only relavant to the individual in any realistic manner, as the idea of joy shifts in meaning from one person to another. I cannot provide any meaningful comment on that, but I feel that for most of us living under the shame of believing ourselves simply incapable of achieving such happiness does not make any logical sense as it gives ourselves nothing in return but a worse overall disposition (unless you subscribe to a masochist ideology, which I'm beginning to think many people here do).

Basically to call ourselves worthless and curse our lives every morning in belief that our differences will eternally hinder us is not a life worth living by my perception, so why live in such a way? Tell me then, what is empirically virtuous in social intelligence if it is used for foul measures, as many NT's have demonstrated to each of us, I'm sure. Why then should we adhere to this idea that social intelligence is the honey of life if it has been proven to not always be a means to finding peace within the individual or the community. We are assets to our communities if we wish to be, but basically we must look harder if we wish to find the niches that fit our unusual folds, because we are not NT's. Just because you aren't the same as the guy next door this doesn't automatically equal you being less of human, it simply means you occupy a different realm of possibilities than he does, and vice versa. There are things we see and do that NT's are unable to do or understand, but they don't become transfixed on their diagnosis as being Stereotypical. Simply put I'm taking the Grandin approach in saying that we have our own lives to live with our own set of strengths and weaknesses, but we ought to consider our selves complimentary to others, not parasitic.

I'll try and break this up.

This is vague. We could easily have completely different ideas on what you mean by normalcy, and how we think other people approach it. I think of it as the attributes that lead to certain ideal goals in life that apparently everybody wants (marriage, wealth etc.). I'll get to this a bit further on but what's wrong with a strong desire to achieve social goals?

In what way?

Exchanging one set of lofty goals for another?
So it's looking like you're promoting like, community based goals? How can I give back to society, how can I use what I know to improve conditions and so on. Is this correct?
Honestly, why should anyone give a damn about that? You talk as if doing this sort of stuff is worth doing. It's clear as day that this stuff provides a benefit to you and others, but is it really what's important in life? I don't think so. What's really important is the social networks we build up over time. I'm not trying to detract from good deeds such as you've mentioned, but they're not worth a damn if you don't have strong, satisfying social connections.

This thread or in general? Not entirely sure what you're talking about. I'm against blind optimism. Maybe I'm overly zealous in emphasising that people often do have serious problems with no easy solution (or even no true solution).

More noble? What does that have to do with anything?

It is perfectly logical on the condition that you believe you genuinely are incapable. After all if you're certain you can't improve things, why bother? In the case that you CAN improve things, it may also be the case that the reward for doing so does not justify the cost. I have noticed however that sometimes people will just sit there and watch a mild problem begin to fester until it becomes unmanageable. Funny, that.

Here's where you've completely lost me. When I started responding to this post I made a decision to tackle it one paragraph at a time, so I had not seen this sentence in my earler responses above. It's making a lot of sense now if you place importance on "empirical virtue". Well let me put it this way, social intelligence doesn't have to be used for 'foul measures'. Why should I devalue something because other people have used it to manipulate others?

? We haven't established that, only that it can be used for 'foul purposes'. You can be a dick and still find piece in life. Why is social intelligence potentially a good thing? It leads to happiness. Or at the very least it appears to. I believe social relationships are the key to this.

1. Yes.
2. Yes. We're just as human but unfortunately the different 'realm of possibilities' is a less desirable one.
3. I think NTs are just as caught up in the desire to fit a certain mold. There are entire industries built up and thriving around this desire.
4. I don't know who that is or what they have said, but where on earth did you get parasitic from? Don't understand. Anyway sure, it's a fact we have our own lives to deal with and our own set of strengths and weaknesses.

fwiw, my mother has accused me for years of not "contributing to society" because of what I now know are most likely textbook traits of Asperger's. She likened me to a guy who lives his entire life in his mother's basement doing nothing but cocaine and watching TV because I (was) 21 and hadn't started a family, because I find the normal dating dynamic to be absolutely positively ret*d and a massive waste of resources/cause of societal problems.

Oh, really? How so?

I'd like to pose a question. From what I read, you appear to be saying that your attitude towards life leads to happiness.

Spinster is saying there is another way to achieve happiness, which you disagree with.

Who is actually happy out of the two of you?
Are you happy?
Is Spinster happy?

I gather that you are not happy, and that spinster is (I could be wrong)

Hence, I am more persuaded by spinsters point of view. You say that your attitude will LEAD to happiness. Spinster's attitude has led to having happiness NOW.

Not trying to be antagonistic, just trying to point this out in the hopes that you will also truly find your happiness

Self limiting beliefs is a problem for everyone - people with AS and NTs alike. Self limiting beliefs do not lead to happiness. It is what you tell yourself that leads to happiness. You cannot control external factors - to place your happiness there is dangerous. You CAN control your own thoughts a lot easier though and is a much safer area to place your happiness.

Also, from what I have read (and I read a lot about this stuff!) most experts on happiness agree on one thing - helping others can DEFINITELY lead to your own happiness. According to one theory, however, this doesn't become a desire until one is older, though I don't see how it could do any harm at a younger age.

It makes me cringe thinking about just what is involved in procuring the diamond that is involved in roughly 95% of American marriage proposals. Why is this all but necessary? I have the unpopular belief that it is shallow and materialistic. I wouldn't want to be the man who forgets/doesn't believe in Hallmark holidays in a serious relationship. Also, being reminded by the verify/clarify thread, I find negotiating through every aspect of a relationship to be taxing to me because I see absolutely no point in why many things have to be so indirect, other than that people can't handle the possibility of rejection which is antirational because you're still rejected even if you don't literally ask somebody something directly and they take the indirect meaning and reject you anyway. And people wonder why there are millions of people who have lost their jobs due to "sexual harassment" which I'm sure is based in large part on miscommunication/misinterpretation at least much more frequently than the rapist would have a jury believe. It's the entire system of dating that is in serious need of repair. I mean I get it, we're not animals, we're human beings, but that doesn't mean you make one of the most fundamentally simple aspects of life into one of the most ridiculously complicated just to make yourself feel important/protect your ego. Also we have this belief that we need to be married as soon as we can, which causes people to rush into marriages, which causes people to marry others based on short term physiologically-based attractions of simple degrees, which causes our astronomical divorce rate, which greatly hurts our juvenile delinquency (suffice it to say a child without an in home father is roughly 16x more likely to commit suicide) rate, which significantly reduces the overall value of life/society. There really is no intrinsic value to much of what we do as dictated by society's standards of mating rituals and the dynamics of dating.

I know I'm ret*d. I'm tired of blaming other people for me being misunderstood. Other people are just normal people trying to get on with their lives. I'm just a mistake who nobody wants.

Same here, no sarcasm intended.