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linatet
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13 Nov 2014, 1:20 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:
One question I have for some is how is the new world supposed to support such lavish lifestyle and technology? To achieve that here requires large amounts of people working long hours in harsh industrial settings. There must be mines, and factories and farms and processing plants, etc.

At first I would imagine the transplanted colony after establishing rudimentary shelters, would have to devote most of its time and energy to food production. This is difficult with picked, healthy and experienced colonists. The history of Roanoke and Jamestown comes to mind. It would be even more difficult with a large percentage of the colonists having little or none of the needed work experience and unaccustomed to physical labor. Indeed many are classified disabled.

Even with a extremely benign climate and very fertile regions, the initial colonization would not be guareented to succeed or even survive, with a lot more likely to go wrong then right. Personally I doubt even half of the original colonists would survive the first 5 years. Due to shortages, stresses and deprivations It could even shatter and fragment into a few pockets of survival, living in very primitive conditions.

I would not really want to go on that trip. No coffee (at least not any time soon) alone rules it out for me.

But let say it did succeed. In time the colony would increasingly lose its ASD characacter, as even with both parents having ASD at least half the children will be NT. ASD is not a natural evolutionary development, but according to the latest theories, various types of damage in a broad area of about 100 gene groups. By maybe generation 4 or 5 the majority will be NT again.

I might, or at least in my youth been tempted to be part of a colonization attempt on a new planet. But only done with the best chances of success and including the natural broad range of people types needed to overcome all obstacles and adapt. A few ASD types could have their place in that, as they always do, adding their own little bit of special talents.

I like your questions, but I didn't imagine it as some kind og colony starting from scratch, but rather some kind of already existing society consisted only/mostly of ASD people (like we were really from another planet, not considering the genetic stuff).



linatet
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13 Nov 2014, 1:22 pm

r84shi37 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
and the neo-anarchic government based upon families and clans.


I like this part.

How would that work?



Toy_Soldier
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13 Nov 2014, 3:25 pm

linatet wrote:
I like your questions, but I didn't imagine it as some kind og colony starting from scratch, but rather some kind of already existing society consisted only/mostly of ASD people (like we were really from another planet, not considering the genetic stuff).


I have thought about the idea in a fanciful way before, but this time around was approaching from a ultra practical angle.

Also its hard for me to conceive how we would function unless I know how we got to this point. To have a starting point of about current civilization would require either 1) It being purpose built for us so to speak by a worldwide coalition. (Maybe they want to get rid of us? :lol:) or 2) We somehow take over an exsisting planet, with the original inhabitants having either left or perished.

Starting from that point would of course be of immense benefit. However, it would still be difficult to form a working society. Everyone, and literally everyone would have to become immediately a contributing part of the communal working mechanism to the maximum extent possible. An interesting proposition having only ASD material to work with.



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13 Nov 2014, 4:16 pm

Interesting, but not surprising, most posters here seem to describe their own utopia.

Except maybe for less aggressive sensory stimulation, I imagine it would be pretty much like this one with those we now call NTs being marginalised, maligned and seen as defective.


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13 Nov 2014, 7:11 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
I imagine it would be pretty much like this one with those we now call NTs being marginalised, maligned and seen as defective.


I should certainly hope not!


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ImAnAspie
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13 Nov 2014, 7:56 pm

Location: Erra - Coordinates Right ascension 03 45 12.5 Declination +24 28 02 (See my Location under my avatar)

Erra is one of ten planets in the Taygeta star system (in The Pleiades (aka Seven Sisters)) in Taurus. Erra is the home planet for some Pleiadians. It is very much like Terra. Erra revolves around Taygeta every 365 1/4 days and one day lasts 23 hours and 59.4 seconds.


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Transyl
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13 Nov 2014, 8:02 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
Interesting, but not surprising, most posters here seem to describe their own utopia.

Except maybe for less aggressive sensory stimulation, I imagine it would be pretty much like this one with those we now call NTs being marginalised, maligned and seen as defective.

Na, I don't see that happening. We'd live in a world based on interests and NTs are just as capable of having interests too. The difference is that maybe they'd hop around more or have interests that are more socially inclined. That wouldn't break the system if we create it right. Our set of rules that makes sense for us but would also be just as fitting for them.



r84shi37
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13 Nov 2014, 11:02 pm

linatet wrote:
r84shi37 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
and the neo-anarchic government based upon families and clans.


I like this part.

How would that work?


I haven't really looked into 'neo-anarchism' so I'm not very familiar with the term. I'm an anarcho-capitalist personally... so I just kind of saw the 'new anarchy' system mentioned and thought, "That sounds kind of cool and interesting!". I assume that families and 'clans' would live and work together... almost like a small town. They would watch out for each other but there wouldn't be any laws... maybe some vigilantism to bring justice to thieves, murderers, rapists, other evil people, etc. There wouldn't be individual countries at all. Maybe names of regions but no large form of government... I guess in one sense there wouldn't be a government at all. Free market incentive would result in great prosperity and innovation. There would still be big cities but roads and land would all be completely privatized. Also... google 'Tom Woods Private Law Podcast'. It's intriguing.


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MysterMe
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14 Nov 2014, 3:09 am

Compassionate Anarchism FTW! :D


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andrethemoogle
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14 Nov 2014, 4:28 am

I can imagine it looking something like Earth in Mass Effect 3 (before the Reapers show up). Very high tech, clean and sleek looking.

Or heck, any science fiction medium that portrays Earth looking like that.



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14 Nov 2014, 4:32 am

Toy_Soldier wrote:
One question I have for some is how is the new world supposed to support such lavish lifestyle and technology? To achieve that here requires large amounts of people working long hours in harsh industrial settings. There must be mines, and factories and farms and processing plants, etc.

At first I would imagine the transplanted colony after establishing rudimentary shelters, would have to devote most of its time and energy to food production. This is difficult with picked, healthy and experienced colonists. The history of Roanoke and Jamestown comes to mind. It would be even more difficult with a large percentage of the colonists having little or none of the needed work experience and unaccustomed to physical labor. Indeed many are classified disabled.

Even with a extremely benign climate and very fertile regions, the initial colonization would not be guareented to succeed or even survive, with a lot more likely to go wrong then right. Personally I doubt even half of the original colonists would survive the first 5 years. Due to shortages, stresses and deprivations It could even shatter and fragment into a few pockets of survival, living in very primitive conditions.

I would not really want to go on that trip. No coffee (at least not any time soon) alone rules it out for me.

But let say it did succeed. In time the colony would increasingly lose its ASD characacter, as even with both parents having ASD at least half the children will be NT. ASD is not a natural evolutionary development, but according to the latest theories, various types of damage in a broad area of about 100 gene groups. By maybe generation 4 or 5 the majority will be NT again.

I might, or at least in my youth been tempted to be part of a colonization attempt on a new planet. But only done with the best chances of success and including the natural broad range of people types needed to overcome all obstacles and adapt. A few ASD types could have their place in that, as they always do, adding their own little bit of special talents.


There's one answer: robots.


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14 Nov 2014, 5:04 am

Transyl wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
Interesting, but not surprising, most posters here seem to describe their own utopia.

Except maybe for less aggressive sensory stimulation, I imagine it would be pretty much like this one with those we now call NTs being marginalised, maligned and seen as defective.

Na, I don't see that happening. We'd live in a world based on interests and NTs are just as capable of having interests too. The difference is that maybe they'd hop around more or have interests that are more socially inclined. That wouldn't break the system if we create it right. Our set of rules that makes sense for us but would also be just as fitting for them.


Unfortunately based on the posts here they will definitely be maligned and seen as defective. I will give us credit in that the NNT (NeuroNotTypical) rights movements will have more support from the majority then we are getting. Paralyzing political argument about who criteria for belonging the Kanner state, who belongs in the Aspergers state and who belongs in the NNT spectrum colony. Eventually we will threatened by an outside power and the argument will be should we use NNT 's as emissaries to the enemy . Those for the idea will argue their ability "read" the intentions of the enemy. Those against it will argue their neurology would make NNT's a power seeking 5th column http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column


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14 Nov 2014, 7:44 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
There's one answer: robots.


Do you mean like there is this army of robots that does everything for us basically? That technology doesn't exsist yet though. Robots are used for some things but in limited capacities. The technology and support systems needed to maintain robots is more complicated and demanding then the robots they maintain. (I have some familiarity there). Where did they come from? Who built them? Who and what maintains them?



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14 Nov 2014, 7:59 am

Toy_Soldier wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
There's one answer: robots.


Do you mean like there is this army of robots that does everything for us basically? That technology doesn't exsist yet though. Robots are used for some things but in limited capacities. The technology and support systems needed to maintain robots is more complicated and demanding then the robots they maintain. (I have some familiarity there). Where did they come from? Who built them? Who and what maintains them?


They come from the abundant, unused minerals of the planet we just colonized. We built them. ASD people with a special interest in them make sure everything is in working order. Robots that see heavy industrial use are even repaired by other robots. Seeing as we're talking about literally enough ASD population to inhabit a planet I'm sure we could make the necessary breakthroughs considering how many robotics experts there would be, as hot asians are a work incentive.


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Toy_Soldier
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14 Nov 2014, 10:32 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
They come from the abundant, unused minerals of the planet we just colonized. We built them. ASD people with a special interest in them make sure everything is in working order. Robots that see heavy industrial use are even repaired by other robots. Seeing as we're talking about literally enough ASD population to inhabit a planet I'm sure we could make the necessary breakthroughs considering how many robotics experts there would be, as hot asians are a work incentive.


I have no doubt that among the ASD population folks could run and maintain robots. I have done so. But to build them requires an entire industrial complex... That makes electricity, construction equipment, metals, parts, electronic components, chemicals, etc, etc.

I would guess half the ASD population has never worked and some would continue to be unable to except in very limited fashion. If transplanted to our own colony I don't believe the current NT model of civilization is viable.

It would have to be on a different footing.



r84shi37
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14 Nov 2014, 12:30 pm

MysterMe wrote:


Nice. See, anarchy gets a bad reputation because people equate anarchy with violence, but most people aren't violent. You've got it all wrong if you think that the only thing keeping people from becoming mindless murderers is the law. Maybe a few people have evil inhibitions that are held inside solely for fear of legal consequences... but most people are good people as explained by the non-agression priniciple. Another thing... no one HAS to create a non-profit private charitable organization... but they do anyway. Maybe it's to improve the image of their own business... maybe they couldn't live with their selves otherwise... maybe they are just compassionate. Whatever the reason, we see it all around us. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ch ... oundations


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