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SammichEater
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30 Aug 2011, 12:07 am

All I'm saying is that, if giftedness is taken into consideration, what's left of AS is negligible for a diagnosis. Saying that I don't have AS and that I'm really just gifted provides for a very strong argument. It's what I've been looking for; I'm surprised because I never would have thought that I could find an alternative explanation that isn't 100% pure bull crap.

Still, I do feel that there is something more than giftedness going on. Very subtle, but something. That's what I say that I'm gifted + BAP. That covers everything, no questions about it. It makes absolutely complete logical sense from every angle imaginable. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that my judgement there is incorrect.

I may one day discover something else and change my mind, but that's just part of life.

“Be yourself and speak your mind today, though it contradict all you have said before” - Elbert Hubbard.


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30 Aug 2011, 12:50 am

matt wrote:
kfisherx wrote:
I am professionally DX'd Gifted/ASD (AKA 2e)

I fit in perfectly with gifted people and always have. They are very accepting of my quirks and many times I am less quirky than many of them.

Fitting in with gifted people does not exclude a person from ASD either.

The lines get very, very fuzzy in this 2e camp so it really is better to speak to a professional that actually does assesments to make a determination.
The part that I put in bold is very surprising to me.

I've read that people who are gifted may display some similar characteristics to people on the autism spectrum, but that they tend to be considered socially appropriate by other gifted people. I was professionally evaluated(Is diagnosed the appropriate word?) as gifted when I was in elementary school(and the evaluator actually told my mother that I was unusually gifted), and I was put in gifted classes. I was no more able to socialize with the people in the gifted classes than I was able to socialize with the general education students. When I was younger I was always held distinct from the group(not in a positive way).

Ever since I first heard the description "twice exceptional", I've thought that the description seemed to fit me very well. I try to compare and contrast myself to others to see whether both being gifted and AS fit, but even though I attended the same schools and the same classes with many of the same "gifted" people I don't remember ever having personal discussions with any of them, and don't have a very good understanding of how they interacted with people outside of discussions about the subject being taught.

I often do relatively well discussing a topic I'm knowledgeable about when I'm in a structured educational or business environment but there is no social interaction outside of that structure.


So...most "gifted" people I know only really talk about their obessesions with me (technical stuff). They are all BAP or so close to BAP that they are indistinguishable in my mind. LOL! Actually they do the social thing and I don't. It is obvious at social events BUT they do not tease or bully me or treat me badly about it. They leave me alone and accept me for who I am. Most intelligent people are also very open minded.



btbnnyr
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30 Aug 2011, 1:59 am

This discussion of giftedness vs. ASD and giftedness plus ASD reminds me of my experiences at the two ivory towers of giftedness that I have attended for school. Tower #1 for college and Tower #2 for grad school.

At Tower #2, the gifteds were mostly NTs, well-rounded, and totally unlike me. I found that most of them were very socially adept around each other, and I was very socially inept around them. Some had excellent social skills all-around, and some were master manipulators. They all enjoyed small-talking with each other. And playing mindgames with each other. And competing against each other. And frenemizing with/against each other. Many of them seemed to hate each other. I didn't know or understand what they were doing, not even when I was told about it. The social dynamics were very complicated, and it seemed to me that these gifted NTs engaged in all the classically scary NT behaviors at an even higher, more gifted level than normal NTs. How was I to join in or keep up? I couldn't, didn't, and didn't want to.

At Tower #1, the gifteds were mostly BAP and much more relatable from my perspective. Of course, I was more severe on the spectrum than most people there, but there were people who were more severe than me. At Tower #1, there was almost a complete absence of social norms. Greeting people? Huh? Small-talking? Huh? Playing mindgames? Huh? Competing against each other? Huh? Social pretense? Huh? In fact, it was the people who were the most NT or desired the most active social lives or desired girlfriends from the 3:1 male:female population who were the least happy. The most socially inept obliviously clueless nerds/geeks/dorks who only cared about school, lab, and disassembling and reassembling motorcoaches after burying roasted goat carcasses stuffed with couscous into six-foot-deep graves for others to dig up were the most happy. Everything at Tower #1, from the teaching style to the social events, seemed to have been designed by and for autistics. Or rather, that was what emerged from the BAP population. Even the regulations that were odious to us were designed with our natural tendencies in mind. For example, everyone was required to complete a certain number of units of Physical Education. Yes, P.E. was required for graduation from college. And quite a significant number of units too. I'm guessing that the idea was to get people off their asses so their muscles didn't completely atrophy in front of their computers. My favorite was "Self-Inflicted P.E." in which I exercised on my own time, recorded the exercise on a form, and turned in the form every term. The only thing missing was social interaction classes, which, in my opinion, should be added to the graduation requirements as soon as possible. I'm sure that the professors could have systemized social interaction into math for us social inepts, just like all the other subjects were systemized into math, and basically, every course I took was math disguised as Subject X, Y, or Z. :lol:



Artros
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30 Aug 2011, 2:11 am

Fnord wrote:
No ... I'm just concerned that when people diagnose themselves, the next step is self-medication, which often leads to disastrous results. I am not saying that a professional diagnosis would always be accurate, or that professional treatment would always be effective. I am saying that being diagnosed and treated by a trained professional is much more accurate and effective than self-diagnosis and self-treatment, and is certainly better than the half-baked opinions of non-professionals with their own prejudices and agendas to advance.


I've never heard of anyone medicating based on a self-diagnosis. I think that if the symptoms are bad enough to reach for medication, they would be bad enough to have been professionally diagnosed earlier as well. Regardless, I would be strongly opposed to anyone medicating based on a self-diagnosis, but like I said, I don't see that trend at all.


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dougn
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30 Aug 2011, 2:15 am

btbnnyr wrote:
This discussion of giftedness vs. ASD and giftedness plus ASD reminds me of my experiences at the two ivory towers of giftedness that I have attended for school. Tower #1 for college and Tower #2 for grad school.

Why do you think they were so different? Were you studying the same subject?



btbnnyr
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30 Aug 2011, 2:32 am

dougn wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
This discussion of giftedness vs. ASD and giftedness plus ASD reminds me of my experiences at the two ivory towers of giftedness that I have attended for school. Tower #1 for college and Tower #2 for grad school.

Why do you think they were so different? Were you studying the same subject?


Yes, the subject was the same. The Two Towers had very different cultures due to the different neurologies of the dominant populations. One was NT-dominant and pretty much like society at large. One was BAP-dominant and not at all like society at large. Actually, at Tower #1, the BAP/ASD undergrads were the minority population compared to the BAP/NT grad students and professors, but it was the undergrads who created the culture that everyone else had to live with. Some of the more NT grad students didn't like it much.



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30 Aug 2011, 5:29 am

Fnord wrote:
No ... I'm just concerned that when people diagnose themselves, the next step is self-medication, which often leads to disastrous results.


I believe that notion must have been extracted from somewhere very dark and smelly.



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30 Aug 2011, 8:45 am

nemorosa wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No ... I'm just concerned that when people diagnose themselves, the next step is self-medication, which often leads to disastrous results.


I believe that notion must have been extracted from somewhere very dark and smelly.


...or colorful and aromatic?



Tuttle
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30 Aug 2011, 9:55 am

dougn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No ... I'm just concerned that when people diagnose themselves, the next step is self-medication, which often leads to disastrous results.

Self-medication? For something that's not generally treated with medication to begin with?


I can actually understand that worry knowing how many threads there are on here about how marijuana makes someone act NT, or alcohol... I've even seen someone talk about LSD in this manner.

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I have mixed feelings about self-diagnoses. I think I'd be more against them if I had more confidence in professionals. It seems like there are a lot of professionals out there making (or not making) diagnoses who have no idea what they're doing.


Yeah, I have mixed feelings too. I have confidence in professionals who have specifically studied ASDs, but too many people haven't and try to work with people with them. On the other hand, I've seen self-diagnoses backfire majorly, and end up hurting others a lot. I think as a whole I will trust self diagnoses to have about a 90% likelihood if someone has actually done a whole lot of research, and just keep recommending to people that they research more or get a professional diagnosis from someone who specifically works in ASDs if they can afford it. The professional diagnosis has actually meant a lot to me.



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30 Aug 2011, 10:01 am

littlelily613 wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
there does seem to be a general bias towards "You have ASD" on this forum. This appears both when someone asks if they have ASD or when someone doubts their diagnosis, self or professional. But why does this trend exist?


Yep, and I've noticed this since I first started coming here. Support is great, but it doesn't mean that there aren't other possibilities for people's issues out. Support can be given for those other potential labels as well. There are probably a lot more people on here than people realize who think they are autistic but really are not. It's not a big deal; not everyone has to be one of us. :wink: And autistic or not, if they can relate in some way, they can we all still be one big happy family, yes?



More of what I've been seeing is a bias against suggesting that someone doesn't have an ASD than a bias towards suggesting that someone does. They're very similar though. I know that people have been offended by me saying that false self-diagnoses can hurt people.

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And I have noooo idea why this trend exists, though I am kind of curious.


I think its actually related to ToM issues. So many of us have questioned ourselves and have ended up on the ASD side, that we see ourselves in people's posts.

On top of that, I've definitely seen a stronger trend in people who are self-diagnosed suggesting self-diagnosis to people and that they do have an ASD - maybe it also has to do with people wanting to reassure themselves that they are right. I know in my years of self-diagnosis, I couldn't help but question, but what if I'm wrong.



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30 Aug 2011, 10:54 am

Artros wrote:
I've never heard of anyone medicating based on a self-diagnosis.

I'd call you a liar if you claimed to have never taken an aspirin for a headache without first consulting a doctor and undergoing a battery of tests.


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30 Aug 2011, 10:56 am

nemorosa wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No ... I'm just concerned that when people diagnose themselves, the next step is self-medication, which often leads to disastrous results.

I believe that notion must have been extracted from somewhere very dark and smelly.

Like your favorite bar, where people medicate themselves for depression?


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League_Girl
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30 Aug 2011, 11:45 am

Tuttle wrote:
littlelily613 wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
there does seem to be a general bias towards "You have ASD" on this forum. This appears both when someone asks if they have ASD or when someone doubts their diagnosis, self or professional. But why does this trend exist?


Yep, and I've noticed this since I first started coming here. Support is great, but it doesn't mean that there aren't other possibilities for people's issues out. Support can be given for those other potential labels as well. There are probably a lot more people on here than people realize who think they are autistic but really are not. It's not a big deal; not everyone has to be one of us. :wink: And autistic or not, if they can relate in some way, they can we all still be one big happy family, yes?



More of what I've been seeing is a bias against suggesting that someone doesn't have an ASD than a bias towards suggesting that someone does. They're very similar though. I know that people have been offended by me saying that false self-diagnoses can hurt people.

Quote:
And I have noooo idea why this trend exists, though I am kind of curious.


I think its actually related to ToM issues. So many of us have questioned ourselves and have ended up on the ASD side, that we see ourselves in people's posts.

On top of that, I've definitely seen a stronger trend in people who are self-diagnosed suggesting self-diagnosis to people and that they do have an ASD - maybe it also has to do with people wanting to reassure themselves that they are right. I know in my years of self-diagnosis, I couldn't help but question, but what if I'm wrong.



It says in your profile you are diagnosed. Is that a mistake?



Tuttle
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30 Aug 2011, 12:15 pm

League_Girl wrote:
It says in your profile you are diagnosed. Is that a mistake?


No, I have an official diagnosis, its just that I had self diagnosed before I had an official diagnosis. I was told at age 13 (I think it was 13, it might have been 15), by a psychologist who was not qualified to diagnose me that I probably had Asperger's Syndrome, and that she wouldn't be able to help me anymore, because she doesn't work with kids on the spectrum. I was also told at that point in time that it wasn't worth getting an official diagnosis because they don't like diagnosing females.

I read a lot, identified, and self-diagnosed. This past July, at age 22, I had an official evaluation from a neuropsychologist who diagnosed me after my evaluation.



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30 Aug 2011, 12:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
nemorosa wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No ... I'm just concerned that when people diagnose themselves, the next step is self-medication, which often leads to disastrous results.

I believe that notion must have been extracted from somewhere very dark and smelly.

Like your favorite bar, where people medicate themselves for depression?


You can't be serious can you? You think people go to a bar thinking getting steaming drunk will help lessen their depression? They may go there to forget but only the most deranged think it will help them.

How do you make this leap from self-diagnosis to "the next step is self-medication"? It's a little insulting to the self-diagnosed to suggest that they are such sad cases that they cannot get by, or lack the will to resist, without resort to bottle, or bong, or pipe, or syringe or the rattle of pills from their pharmacy.



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30 Aug 2011, 1:15 pm

nemorosa wrote:
How do you make this leap from self-diagnosis to "the next step is self-medication"? It's a little insulting to the self-diagnosed to suggest that they are such sad cases that they cannot get by, or lack the will to resist, without resort to bottle, or bong, or pipe, or syringe or the rattle of pills from their pharmacy.


Self-medication can occur with self-diagnosis or professional diagnosis, but it definitely occurs. I've seen a non-trivial number of threads on that topic on these boards, and I've definitely seen them that focus on illicit drugs. I don't know whether self-diagnosed people are more prone to self-medication or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was true.