Should i tell my shrink i am autistic

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SodBuster
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08 May 2018, 10:09 pm

Do you actually WANT friends?



MalchikBrodyaga
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09 May 2018, 12:39 am

Well, I don't agree with the sentiment that you are either autistic or you aren't. Are you telling me that people with Asperger are more similar to profoundly ret*d non verbal autistics than to NT-s? If you simply say that both aspies and profound autistics have the same underlying abnormality, I can make a similar argument in the opposite direction: aspies and NTs share the same "abnormality" (NT-ness) that makes neither of them get along with severe autistics; aspies simply have milder form of NT-ness, but it is NT-ness nonetheless.

Also, what about people with the newly-introduced label of social communication disorder? Seeing that this diagnosis is completely separate from autism spectrum according to DSM 5, are you saying they aren't autistic? But aspies are? All because in DSM 4 they did things slightly different than in DSN 5?

In any case, I am not saying experts are wrong. I am saying that whether someone is autistic or not is a subjective question without right or wrong answer. Its a spectrum that goes from the most severe people to the good old introverts that are half the population. Since you don't want to diagnose half the population, you got to draw the line somewhere. And where you draw it is entirely subjective.

To put it in scientific terms, if a disorder is based on single chromosome, such as Dawns, then yes you either have it or you don't. But autism doesn't involve one specific gene, but rather a combination. Since genes combine independently of each other, there is no way autistics will have the whole combination; they would just have some parts of it. So different autistics might have different genetic abnormality altogether, but they are both called autistic die to similar phenotype. In case of Williams syndrome, whose symptoms are also similar to autism, they didn't include it in the spectrum because they have proven its genetically distinct. Well, who knows maybe different disorders on autism spectrum ate genetically distinct from each other just as much, but nobody knows it since nobody found their genetics to begin with.

As far as what you said about a treatment for misdiagnosed condition having bad effects, that would be a good treason to stay away from such treatments altogether. I, for one, would never agree to take any psychiatric meds, regardless of diagnosis. I do go for counselling though. Or are you saying counselling can also do a harm for misdiagnosed condition? Please tell me if that's what you meant so that I can decide whether or not to quit counseling. I mean, if the counselor says the truth, how can the truth be harmful, regardless of diagnosis? Or if the counselor lies, why would you willingly allow someone to deceive you, just for the sake of therapeutic effects of said decease.



ASPartOfMe
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09 May 2018, 2:01 am

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Well, I don't agree with the sentiment that you are either autistic or you aren't. Are you telling me that people with Asperger are more similar to profoundly ret*d non verbal autistics than to NT-s? If you simply say that both aspies and profound autistics have the same underlying abnormality, I can make a similar argument in the opposite direction: aspies and NTs share the same "abnormality" (NT-ness) that makes neither of them get along with severe autistics; aspies simply have milder form of NT-ness, but it is NT-ness nonetheless.

Also, what about people with the newly-introduced label of social communication disorder? Seeing that this diagnosis is completely separate from autism spectrum according to DSM 5, are you saying they aren't autistic? But aspies are? All because in DSM 4 they did things slightly different than in DSN 5?

In any case, I am not saying experts are wrong. I am saying that whether someone is autistic or not is a subjective question without right or wrong answer. Its a spectrum that goes from the most severe people to the good old introverts that are half the population. Since you don't want to diagnose half the population, you got to draw the line somewhere. And where you draw it is entirely subjective.

To put it in scientific terms, if a disorder is based on single chromosome, such as Dawns, then yes you either have it or you don't. But autism doesn't involve one specific gene, but rather a combination. Since genes combine independently of each other, there is no way autistics will have the whole combination; they would just have some parts of it. So different autistics might have different genetic abnormality altogether, but they are both called autistic die to similar phenotype. In case of Williams syndrome, whose symptoms are also similar to autism, they didn't include it in the spectrum because they have proven its genetically distinct. Well, who knows maybe different disorders on autism spectrum ate genetically distinct from each other just as much, but nobody knows it since nobody found their genetics to begin with.

As far as what you said about a treatment for misdiagnosed condition having bad effects, that would be a good treason to stay away from such treatments altogether. I, for one, would never agree to take any psychiatric meds, regardless of diagnosis. I do go for counselling though. Or are you saying counselling can also do a harm for misdiagnosed condition? Please tell me if that's what you meant so that I can decide whether or not to quit counseling. I mean, if the counselor says the truth, how can the truth be harmful, regardless of diagnosis? Or if the counselor lies, why would you willingly allow someone to deceive you, just for the sake of therapeutic effects of said decease.


It Is subjective because we have not figured it out yet not because it is not a thing one or one does not have. Yeah it is possible proof will be found that it is many conditions not one. Until or if proof is found as to what Autism is or is not where NT ends and Autism begins is going to be argued about. IMHO is probably more than 1 in 59 but I would not say half the population is autistic. If you are going to widen the spectrum to include “just introvets” there is no need for the name autism as we already have a name for it, introversion.


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MalchikBrodyaga
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09 May 2018, 3:44 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Well, I don't agree with the sentiment that you are either autistic or you aren't. Are you telling me that people with Asperger are more similar to profoundly ret*d non verbal autistics than to NT-s? If you simply say that both aspies and profound autistics have the same underlying abnormality, I can make a similar argument in the opposite direction: aspies and NTs share the same "abnormality" (NT-ness) that makes neither of them get along with severe autistics; aspies simply have milder form of NT-ness, but it is NT-ness nonetheless.

Also, what about people with the newly-introduced label of social communication disorder? Seeing that this diagnosis is completely separate from autism spectrum according to DSM 5, are you saying they aren't autistic? But aspies are? All because in DSM 4 they did things slightly different than in DSN 5?

In any case, I am not saying experts are wrong. I am saying that whether someone is autistic or not is a subjective question without right or wrong answer. Its a spectrum that goes from the most severe people to the good old introverts that are half the population. Since you don't want to diagnose half the population, you got to draw the line somewhere. And where you draw it is entirely subjective.

To put it in scientific terms, if a disorder is based on single chromosome, such as Dawns, then yes you either have it or you don't. But autism doesn't involve one specific gene, but rather a combination. Since genes combine independently of each other, there is no way autistics will have the whole combination; they would just have some parts of it. So different autistics might have different genetic abnormality altogether, but they are both called autistic die to similar phenotype. In case of Williams syndrome, whose symptoms are also similar to autism, they didn't include it in the spectrum because they have proven its genetically distinct. Well, who knows maybe different disorders on autism spectrum ate genetically distinct from each other just as much, but nobody knows it since nobody found their genetics to begin with.

As far as what you said about a treatment for misdiagnosed condition having bad effects, that would be a good treason to stay away from such treatments altogether. I, for one, would never agree to take any psychiatric meds, regardless of diagnosis. I do go for counselling though. Or are you saying counselling can also do a harm for misdiagnosed condition? Please tell me if that's what you meant so that I can decide whether or not to quit counseling. I mean, if the counselor says the truth, how can the truth be harmful, regardless of diagnosis? Or if the counselor lies, why would you willingly allow someone to deceive you, just for the sake of therapeutic effects of said decease.


It Is subjective because we have not figured it out yet not because it is not a thing one or one does not have. Yeah it is possible proof will be found that it is many conditions not one. Until or if proof is found as to what Autism is or is not where NT ends and Autism begins is going to be argued about. IMHO is probably more than 1 in 59 but I would not say half the population is autistic. If you are going to widen the spectrum to include “just introvets” there is no need for the name autism as we already have a name for it, introversion.


You have yourself acknowledged in the above quote that it might turn out to be many conditions. Well, if so, it would still be subjective which of them to incluclde in autism, since we aren't including, for example, williams syndrome.

In light of this each of those conditions would be a thing but autism as such won't be.

In any case, in today's world you can't be diagnosed with those other conditions since they weren't discovered yet. The diagnosis of autism is subjective per above argument. And those two things put together explain why getting diagnosed in todays world isn't very important.



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09 May 2018, 11:39 am

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Well, I don't agree with the sentiment that you are either autistic or you aren't. Are you telling me that people with Asperger are more similar to profoundly ret*d non verbal autistics than to NT-s? If you simply say that both aspies and profound autistics have the same underlying abnormality, I can make a similar argument in the opposite direction: aspies and NTs share the same "abnormality" (NT-ness) that makes neither of them get along with severe autistics; aspies simply have milder form of NT-ness, but it is NT-ness nonetheless.

Also, what about people with the newly-introduced label of social communication disorder? Seeing that this diagnosis is completely separate from autism spectrum according to DSM 5, are you saying they aren't autistic? But aspies are? All because in DSM 4 they did things slightly different than in DSN 5?

In any case, I am not saying experts are wrong. I am saying that whether someone is autistic or not is a subjective question without right or wrong answer. Its a spectrum that goes from the most severe people to the good old introverts that are half the population. Since you don't want to diagnose half the population, you got to draw the line somewhere. And where you draw it is entirely subjective.

To put it in scientific terms, if a disorder is based on single chromosome, such as Dawns, then yes you either have it or you don't. But autism doesn't involve one specific gene, but rather a combination. Since genes combine independently of each other, there is no way autistics will have the whole combination; they would just have some parts of it. So different autistics might have different genetic abnormality altogether, but they are both called autistic die to similar phenotype. In case of Williams syndrome, whose symptoms are also similar to autism, they didn't include it in the spectrum because they have proven its genetically distinct. Well, who knows maybe different disorders on autism spectrum ate genetically distinct from each other just as much, but nobody knows it since nobody found their genetics to begin with.

As far as what you said about a treatment for misdiagnosed condition having bad effects, that would be a good treason to stay away from such treatments altogether. I, for one, would never agree to take any psychiatric meds, regardless of diagnosis. I do go for counselling though. Or are you saying counselling can also do a harm for misdiagnosed condition? Please tell me if that's what you meant so that I can decide whether or not to quit counseling. I mean, if the counselor says the truth, how can the truth be harmful, regardless of diagnosis? Or if the counselor lies, why would you willingly allow someone to deceive you, just for the sake of therapeutic effects of said decease.


It Is subjective because we have not figured it out yet not because it is not a thing one or one does not have. Yeah it is possible proof will be found that it is many conditions not one. Until or if proof is found as to what Autism is or is not where NT ends and Autism begins is going to be argued about. IMHO is probably more than 1 in 59 but I would not say half the population is autistic. If you are going to widen the spectrum to include “just introvets” there is no need for the name autism as we already have a name for it, introversion.


You have yourself acknowledged in the above quote that it might turn out to be many conditions. Well, if so, it would still be subjective which of them to incluclde in autism, since we aren't including, for example, williams syndrome.

In light of this each of those conditions would be a thing but autism as such won't be.

In any case, in today's world you can't be diagnosed with those other conditions since they weren't discovered yet. The diagnosis of autism is subjective per above argument. And those two things put together explain why getting diagnosed in todays world isn't very important.


The importance of getting diagnosed depends on the person, circumstance, location etc. If a person needs or will eventually need due to their autism or because of the way society treats their autistic traits or both they need accommodations/services/treatments to prevent them starving in the street or having a breakdown it is damn important. Even if they do not need or can get help some people just need an "authority" to confirm their suspicions to move on in life.

If Autism or whatever diagnostic label might replace it is not a disability but purely a gift and all the problems people labeled "autistic" have is the result of society, not having people diagnosed, even under an unfair and incorrect label is deliberately hurting people in the cause of social justice and factual correctness.

Until such time as we have a better understanding, we have to work with what we have and that is the current understanding that autism is a thing and a lifelong thing. I can not go through life not doing anything and not forming opinions based on the possibility that someday we might find out that autism was never real. That is paralysis by analysis. The you are autistic or you not autistic line was made in reply to a statement that said you are not autistic unless you get a professional diagnosis. If autism is not real then that statement is still incorrect.


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09 May 2018, 2:13 pm

SodBuster wrote:
Do you actually WANT friends?


I don't really know what is a friend.

But I want friends because I suspect that having no friend may be what is partly triggering my high anxiety.



LaetiBlabla
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09 May 2018, 2:16 pm

(PS: regarding the long posts here about getting diagnosis, this is not the subject of this thread nor my aim, thank you)



MalchikBrodyaga
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09 May 2018, 2:27 pm

LaetiBlabla wrote:
(PS: regarding the long posts here about getting diagnosis, this is not the subject of this thread nor my aim, thank you)


The title of this thread sort of relates to it.

Anyway in my opinion yes you should tell the shrink about your autism. Its actually a good thing if you tell without her bringing it up, that way she will.know you have an insight into your condition.



raymond
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09 May 2018, 2:35 pm

I would, as it is more helpful.. but it is up to your personal preference on whether to do so... Good luck!! :)



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09 May 2018, 2:48 pm

As I posted earlier, my response is yes. However I suggest you plan for her follow-up questions about how your awareness has developed over time, and what you feel about this now, what your hopes and fears are relating to it.

Make the answers as concise and to the point as possible, capturing the most important factors for you. Too much detail and your message may get lost in "noise". At that early stage of the discussion, it's crucial to make the message as clear as possible I think, especially if you are dealing with an NT shrinker who has no inside knowledge of life lived on the spectrum. She may have academic knowledge about it (or not) or have been influenced by psychiatric myths, who knows; but that doesn't confer knowledge of what it's like to walk in your shoes, as an individual, living your life.

So I hope that she is one of ones who has the ability to see the big picture and not the narrow diagnostic black and white view.



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09 May 2018, 3:29 pm

^^^Thank you. I did not even anticipate she would ask questions, but of course she will and those questions are actually quite probable.



Trev038
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09 May 2018, 4:21 pm

LaetiBlabla wrote:
Arganger, i wonder the reasons. Getting a diagnosis may be harming? Eugenics? or kind of racism towards autism? If this is likely to happen, I would better not tell her...

I am however sure that this would help my psychologist to gain time, because i am not speaking a lot and pretending to be normal fairly good. So it could take some meetings for her to diagnose me.


Why are you seeing the psychologist in the first place? You sound like you are forced to see her, like she's the one that needs your help.

Should you tell your shrink you're autistic? In this situation, the short answer is no.

If you want her to actually help you, you can address the autistic traits that are a problem for you, without using the word autism. And if you feel like it, at some point you could say "sometimes it feels like I'm autistic or something". She might have a lightbulb moment, without you having to push for a diagnosis. If not, no harm done. If you're in France, as suggested, she won't think you're autistic until she sees you screaming rolling on the floor in your own faeces. I mean seriously, a former French prime minister who was running for president said on TV "I'm not autistic" as a way to say he wasn't stupid, even though his Welsh wife is involved in an association that helps people with Asperger Syndrome...

Now... If you want help from the right people, be aware you can get a diagnosis and not tell anyone about it. Your doctor won't tell anyone either.

I'm 38 and in my family only my mom knows that I have Asperger Syndrome. And when I heard her say that it isn't autism but only shares some of the traits, I didn't even argue with her. My siblings and my dad have no idea about it.

Also, knowing yourself for 38 years doesn't make you an expert in autism. Studying the subject and working with autistic patients does. You scored 40 at the autism quotient test, it is indeed an good indication but doesn't warrant a positive diagnosis. I mean seriously, I scored 44 (more recently 46) but still would have never told anyone I was autistic without a diagnosis (which I got shortly after doing that test). I even still had moments of doubt and disbelief after the diagnosis and the assessment, which included over 30 pages of questionnaires followed by a 2+ hour session with a psychiatrist specialised in adult autism.

So there you go, hope this helps... In any case, good luck for the future :wink:



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09 May 2018, 7:23 pm

^^^I do not "see a psychologist to help her" :D I am seeing the psychologist because I need and want help of course.

I do want adapted help, I have already made a list of my problems for her (obviously all autism-related). Maybe it is good to tell her I am sure I have autism. Otherwise, we will stand together speaking about the elephant all the time but never naming the elephant. So weird.

Knowing myself for 38 years doesn't make me an expert in autism indeed but makes me able to recognize myself in autism (having previously made all other possible tests before finding out). I have met and read enough about NTs to know what differentiates them to me.

I did not score 40, I scored "more than 40".

Best wishes as well.



MalchikBrodyaga
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09 May 2018, 7:27 pm

LaetiBlabla wrote:
Maybe it is good to tell her I am sure I have autism. Otherwise, we will stand together speaking about the elephant all the time but never naming the elephant. So weird.


Yeah, I agree, you should tell her.

Keep in mind that psychologist isn't allowed to tell anyone else about your diagnosis without your permission, and nobody is forcing you to tell people about your diagnosis either. So you literally have nothing to lose by telling her. But you have a lot to gain: more effective communication and less time wasted.



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09 May 2018, 7:32 pm

I think I will insist that I do not want confirmation from anybody that I am autistic. (hope she will understand I don't want a diagnosis)

I will also not take any medication she would propose me because, I don't know if true, but some would prescribe medicines that reduces fertility or stuff like that, because they would be afraid that disabled people invade the world, kind of eugenics.



MalchikBrodyaga
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09 May 2018, 8:03 pm

LaetiBlabla wrote:
I think I will insist that I do not want confirmation from anybody that I am autistic. (hope she will understand I don't want a diagnosis)

I will also not take any medication she would propose me because, I don't know if true, but some would prescribe medicines that reduces fertility or stuff like that, because they would be afraid that disabled people invade the world, kind of eugenics.


I agree you shouldn't take any meds. But its okay to get a diagnosis: you can get a diagnosis and still refuse meds.