Isn't schizoid and avoident personality disorder Autism?

Post Reply New Topic

This all makes a lot of sense but the problem is that Schizoid Personality can NOT co-exist with AS. If an Aspie is introverted & avoids people as a coping thing because of AS & gets tested for AS as an adult(I was tested rite before I was 21) It's possible the docs may assume some of the AS symptoms are caused by being introverted instead of understanding that the person became introverted to cope with things. In my case I've also had diagnoses of Dyslexia & ADHD sense I started school & a long history of being bullied as a kid cuz of my problems relating to others. The docs thought that my problems wer caused because of the bulling & learning problems instead of understanding that I was being bullied because of my problems connecting with people. My point is when someone could of developed Schizoid Personality because of their AS; the docs may not be able to tell if it was cuz of AS or not. I really hope DSM V does away with Schizoid

I am not sure why Schizoid cannot coexist with AS. It seems logical that someone could be an adult with autism and have a personality disorder. In fact, it seems like autism would predispose you to developing a personality disorder, unless autism is diagnosed in childhood so you can have the appropriate upbringing and school experiences.
It's all to easy to fall prone to developing dysfunctional coping skills when one feels isolated and is presented with a unique set of challenges...
Schizoid behaviors are just a set of responses to life, because this is what you have learned and what has been reinforced in childhood. I do believe it is possible to alter personality in childhood, and to change it.

No. None of the PD's are autism. Aspergers will be diagnosed as Autistic Spectrum Disorder in the next DSM. People with autism may have personality disorders more often that other people but they are not at all the same. Avoident is more related to social anxiety disorder and Schizoid is more related to the negative symptoms of schizophrenia without having any of the positive symptoms (hallucinations, delusions, thought disorder.) Obsessive Compulsive PD is related to OCD and Narcissistic PD is related to psychopathy along with Antisocial and Histrionic. Schizotypal and Paranoid are also related to Schizophrenia. Borderline is usually related to PTSD or an affective disorder. Dependent seems like what someone would probablly develop from not learning to do things for themselves. That covers all of them in the DSM 4. None of them are mild autism but like I said someone with autism is more likely to have a personality disorder that the general population. However Hans Asperger concidered aspergers to be its own personality disorder related to autism.

That's another interesting thing to consider, Hans Asperger considered Asperger's itself to be a personality disorder. We have to keep in mind he was seeing children in his clinic, not adults and modern psychologists do not liket to assign personalities to children, so could Asperger's really be a legitimate personality?

I am a combination of neurological differences and apart from Aspergers and others i.e. very basically - dyslexia (visualizes and jumbles my mind), dyspraxia (makes me clusmy and amusing!), I also have ADHD and bipolar, ADHD means I have extremely fast processing skills and my mind never switches off, my bipolar takes me to varied extremities, depending on my moods. When being diagnosed for bipolar, they also diagnosed me with ADHD

I agree with your thinking here. Autism is a 'rational/male' brain issue and Schizoid Spectrum Disorders are 'intuitive/female' brain issues. As we all have both brain 'sides/aspects' it is completely possible that both can manifest 'differences'. To what degree and why is debatable. Maybe it is possible that socializing issues brought on by autism (with the attendant coping difficulties) can lead to Schizoid Spectrum manifestations in the personality construct that develops. That, or something that looks like Schizoid Spectrum personality disorder, dependent on the degree to which the autism can allow such to actually manifest. I am beginning to think that I am both HFA as well as Schizoid, the latter caused by difficulties brought on by the former, and further accentuated when I turned to marywanna (sic) to cope with those difficulties ('self medicate'). It is a possibility and something I need to discuss with a psychologist/therapist.

Last edited by Dinosaw on 10 Apr 2011, 2:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

TPE2, on another thread where the relationship between Schizophrenia and Autism was being discussed, you suggested an 'orthogonal' relationship (or interaction) between Autistic Spectrum and Schizoid Spectrum 'disorders'. I liked that suggestion so much it made me restructure my opinion on the subject entirely, leading me to write another post to that effect on that thread. Permit me to quote that post here, as I feel it is pertinent:

"After reading and mulling over your (TPE2's) response I reconsider my posts here as well as the initial 'gut reaction' that inspired them. I am now convinced that you are on to something with your 'orthogonal' relationship suggestion. Such a theory would allow a person to experience different aspects of both the Autism Spectrum AND the Schizoid Spectrum AT THE SAME TIME. I am right in that extrapolation, correct? (And please correct me if I'm wrong). The way I'm thinking is that given the relative 'rational/male' brain and 'intuitive/female' brain natures of the two spectrums, they could coexist because we all have both types/aspects of brain construct (rational AND intuitive coexist in all of us). Thank you for your input and insight."

Taking the possibility of an orthogonal relationship/interaction between the two spectrums, I believe that I am closer to a personal 'self' diagnosis. To understand myself I need to combine that thought with the possibility schizoid personality constructs can be developed as a means to cope with abuse experienced due to an autistic condition. This gives me 'food for thought'.

BTW TPE2, forgive me for changing the wording in my quoting of your previous post to this thread, my corrections are in parentheses.

Last edited by Dinosaw on 10 Apr 2011, 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Why do you keep associating "male" with "rational" and "female" with "intuitive?" Culturally speaking, these are assumed traits for these genders, but I do not think that this is reflected in reality.

Alright, I will refrain from the further utilization of such antiquated gender associations. I appreciate your input. As we all have both rational and intuitive sides, it is in fact unfair to suggest that one sex is more prone to exhibit, or represent symbolically / metaphorically, either of the two brain types.

Having said that, I will note that i subscribe to Theological interpretations of Genesis 2 that see Adam as rational brain and Eve as intuitive brain. I make this point just in case I'm caught espousing that interpretation elsewhere, despite the fact that I don't see myself doing so on Wrong Planet. Such 'Adam/Eve" theorizing shouldn't offend anyone, especially not a woman, in light of the ancient cultural influences obvious in that Biblical metaphor. To me it puts the responsibility for "The Fall" on each and every person, rather than the female gender, as we all have rational and intuitive brain aspects. Furthermore, we all have centered egos (metaphorically 'the serpent').

Here's how I understand the difference. I follow psychologist Stephen M. Johnson's, Alexander Lowen's, and Wilhelm Reich's "character styles" psychology, which is quite different form the DSM classification of disorders in the sense that characterology focuses on the etiology of disorders, i.e. how they originated.

So following that model of character disorders, there are generally six: schizoid, oral, symbiotic, masochistic, narcissistic, and obsessive-compulsive. Generally speaking, each disorder corresponds to an emotional wound or psychological injury that happened in childhood: schizoid personalities are said to be the result of the earliest childhood wound, i.e. often occurring when the person is still developed as a fetus in the womb. They're dubbed the "hated child," or the "unwanted child." As much as we don't like to admit it, some of us were actually unwanted, unplanned, or came into the world at a very stressfully time in our parent's life so as to be seen as a "burdened to be bared" rather than a joyous gift.

Babies pick up on unconscious signals. And as much as the parent tries to feign interest in the child, the child can intuit that it is unwanted in this world, that the world is a harsh, cold place that is to be feared. Thats why schizoid personalities are characterized by a fearful attitude towards life. Where healthy personalities find comfort in others, schizoids find the presence of others discomforting and anxiety-provoking. Because schizoid characters were wounded so early in life, it's very, very difficult to heal the wound. They're prone to disassociation behaviours, and don't feel very connected to the real world. This extreme shyness and introversion can be mistaken for aspergers, but they are quite different disorders in the sense that Aspergers is not the result of an early emotional wound, but a unique neurological wiring.

That being said, people with Aspergers who grow up with an unsympathetic, critical, or harsh parent(s) can manifest the schizoid personality as they grow older. It's kind of like a turning inward out of fear, where healthy people continue to turn outward as they gain more and more trust in the world.

Here's how I understand the difference. I follow psychologist Stephen M. Johnson's, Alexander Lowen's, and Wilhelm Reich's "character styles" psychology, which is quite different form the DSM classification of disorders in the sense that characterology focuses on the etiology of disorders, i.e. how they originated.

So following that model of character disorders, there are generally six: schizoid, oral, symbiotic, masochistic, narcissistic, and obsessive-compulsive. Generally speaking, each disorder corresponds to an emotional wound or psychological injury that happened in childhood: schizoid personalities are said to be the result of the earliest childhood wound, i.e. often occurring when the person is still developed as a fetus in the womb. They're dubbed the "hated child," or the "unwanted child." As much as we don't like to admit it, some of us were actually unwanted, unplanned, or came into the world at a very stressfully time in our parent's life so as to be seen as a "burdened to be bared" rather than a joyous gift.

Babies pick up on unconscious signals. And as much as the parent tries to feign interest in the child, the child can intuit that it is unwanted in this world, that the world is a harsh, cold place that is to be feared. Thats why schizoid personalities are characterized by a fearful attitude towards life. Where healthy personalities find comfort in others, schizoids find the presence of others discomforting and anxiety-provoking. Because schizoid characters were wounded so early in life, it's very, very difficult to heal the wound. They're prone to disassociation behaviours, and don't feel very connected to the real world. This extreme shyness and introversion can be mistaken for aspergers, but they are quite different disorders in the sense that Aspergers is not the result of an early emotional wound, but a unique neurological wiring.

That being said, people with Aspergers who grow up with an unsympathetic, critical, or harsh parent(s) can manifest the schizoid personality as they grow older. It's kind of like a turning inward out of fear, where healthy people continue to turn outward as they gain more and more trust in the world.

Because they aren't developmental disorders for one, and people develop personality disorders but aren't born with them, I think sometimes personality disorders can be mis-diagnosed as autism and autism could sometimes be mis-diagnosed as a personality disorder not to mention people with autism can have personality disorders unless the autism accounts for all the symptoms. Also aspergers isn't a seperate disorder from autism...people with aspergers will just officially be referred to as autism spectrum individuals. I doubt the term aspergers will entirely disappear though its just not in the DSM which is essentially only a reference guide and should never be used by itself to diagnose.

Also one does not just go and get them self diagnosed with a specific disorder....the mental health professional usually does the diagnosing. They likely wouldn't switch your diagnoses to that anyways they'd just say you're on the autism spectrum now that the term aspergers isn't the official term.

, I cant help myself...

Personality Disorders are born from a dodgy childhood, whether the child was overly smothered, or not enough, abused, neglected, you name it.

Autism is from birth.

Personality Disorder is formed as an adult. You 'learn' these problems.

Autism is a problem you're born with.

I think personality disorders are developed because of things that happen in the person's life. OCD I think it can be developed and one can be born with it because I have read about it being developed young as two and I had to take a certain step in each room, have my food served in a certain way when I was that little and it screamed OCD to me when I read that in my report. OCD is an anxiety disorder.


Oh I just realized this is an old thread.

Keep in mind, though, that schizotypal (personality) disorder is 1.) disputed as a personality disorder and 2.) does have large effects on thinking. It is considered to be related to schizophrenia and may be used to diagnose what appear to be mild manifestations of schizophrenia that fall just short of the criteria (like when I was diagnosed with it at age 14). This is but one piece of evidence for the connection to schizophrenia:

http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjour ... bt239.long