AS and Personality Types.

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Aperger's Syndrome and Personality Types.

Since very early on in my experience as a person diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome I have been convinced that Asperger's Syndrome is a personality type more than anything else.

If I am right about this, it should be possible to derive some facts to back up my thesis, and this has been a problem for me, because I have no tools to make research, nor any education or title that might aid me in such a project. So I was delighted when I earlier this evening found a poll about the Myers/Briggs Personality Test (which is a test based on work by Jung).
Even more so was I happy to find that people with Asperger's Syndrome not only seem to share certain traits, which would be more than understandable; we even seem to share the same personality type (generally speaking, of course).

The personality type we have most in common is the INTJ type, which was shared by no less than 34% of the voters!! Now this is not an insignificant number by any means, and what it does more than anything is show that we really do tend towards certain traits in personality. This is a fact even when we take into account things such as 'Who are likely to take a personality test in the first place', 'who will come across such a test = who uses the internet and seeks out an AS forum', etc. etc.. The arrows remains pointed towards what I'm claiming (and I soon learned, a couple of years back, that I'm not a lonely lunatic as to what I think in this regard).

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As a side note it is a little bit funny to think of how I first reacted when I saw I too belong to the largest group at WrongPlanet.com. I didn't believe what I saw, because I'm so used to be rare lingering at the border of nob-existent, so it was quite a jump from there to being one of the 'norm'. Lol.

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What I like about the whole thing is, that more than most other things that can - and will - be said, the massive recurrence of the same personality type only adds to the likelihood that I am right when I say that Asperger's Syndrome is not a "syndrome" in the traditional sense of that word. It is a Personality Type!

Yes, we may be (I believe we ARE) autists in some sense and to a certain degree (then again which no doubt is different for each of us. And I was diagnosed with autism as a small child). But my claim in this regard is that autism is a trait on a scale which is part of every human being's personal make-up. It's not a question wether or not austism exists in all human beings (it does), only if it exists to such an extent as to make itself noticed and/or to represent a problem (to the person themself or/and to their surroundings).

This is the same for f.ex. fundamental Mood Level. Everybody has a tendency towards a certain mood level, but raise this to one or two opposing extremes, and we have bipolar disorder.
However, being an individual with unusually highs and lows in mood doesn't in itself make them ill or sick or even having a syndrome.

.......

Of course, give or take ten years and it will mean that. But that's tendency of our time to put everything into boxes of precise definitions with very small margins. And these margins are getting smaller as we speak, just as more definitions are being made.
And THAT is a very common trait in a culture which is in decline, losing it's spiritual foundation. It has to invent commonalities and list them in tight order so as to make them become real.

When reality begins to slip away, we begin to discuss it and define it.
And when we define something as being "fact" or "reality", we define all the rest as unreal ... or as belonging to unwanted reality. Unwanted reality is usually what isn't easily controlled or what doesn't actively aid in upholding a steadily weaker status quo.
We can discuss what a weak status quo is, but that falls outside of this topic.

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All the above said there is no doubt that we are having genuine difficulties in our lives and many of us are in fact what can rightly be termed disabled - or have become disabled. And it should be understood that I am no advocating for us not being treated as a group of people who do need some special status. We do.
What I am saying though is that this is the case not because we're inherently sick or ill or lacking in some way, but because our culture have grown into a "phase" that produces groups like ours because of it's narrow sense of norm and usefulness and all the other values. - This is something we can't change at this stage. It would be stupid to think we could. - Sure, over time ... over a period of a couple of hundred years from now, at the very least, we may be able to change things (we better!). But at present we'll have to work with what we've got. And we've got a culture that has build into it's post-cultural structure such a set of norm values that makes it very hard to function and thrive as a person belonging to the personality type called Asperger's Syndrome. And that is why we shouldn't confuse the understanding of ourselves as being a personality variant, and ourselves as being a group in society that can't avoid becoming stigmatized and in need of aid in various ways.

Some might say: "But why even bother talking about wether we're a personality type or a syndrome or whatever? We won't change no matter what we're called".

Actually, that's not true. We will change according to how we're being interpreted by ourselves and by others. And nothing forms a perception of something more than the words used to name or phrase it.
Still, my reason to find it important that we understand ourselves, is that the more we understand, the more we will know what to do to help ourselves. The more we will know what we can do to be of good to our contemporaries and to the world as such. I can't emphasize enough how much difference it has made to me to know about Asperger's and that I am a person who has Asperger's. Not least can I see what it WOULD have meant top me if I had known earlier. In so many ways my life has been wasted, and that angers me because I feel I could have done a lot of good.
We WILL be the ones who will help us more than any other group. Neurological and other Research, Law or Medicine or Citizen's Rights, ... all of their help will always come after that of our own, especially in the future.

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It would be great to hear a few views on the issue on Asperger's Syndrome as a Syndrome, Disorder, or a Personality Type ... or as something else again. I'm eager to learn more about it all and to hear what people ... especially, perhaps, ourselves (aspies), think about it all. But NT'ers are very welcome to voice your opinions as well; I'd love to have a chance to debate it with both groups, as quite frankly, I don't have much of a chance to do that where I come from.

Thank you all in advance.

^L^,


Puzelle.

You're right, 34% is a very significant number. However, that means that 66% of people with Asperger's fit a different personality type. I am one of those people, in fact.

Think of how Asperger's is diagnosed: it's not on a personality basis. It doesn't matter that I am not a shy person, it matters that I cannot read body language. It doesn't matter that I enjoy going to parties, it matters that I have trouble following conversations in a setting with a lot of background noise or other sensory information.

If Asperger's was indeed a personality type, we would not see the kind of diversity we do on this forum, and I would probably have not received a professional diagnosis.

I am an ENFP. It seems to be pretty rare on this website though, I have only seen about 10 ENF_ 's on this website, and thousands of introverts. I have noticed other extroverts seem to be just as rare here. My theory is there are many extrovert aspies, but they are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD or dyspraxia, especially if they are on the high-functioning end. A lot of them possibly just blended into the NT population. I never managed to do that, so I am here.

Executive Dysfunction is not a personality type. It's a neurological disorder. People with Alzheimer's Disease and various other forms of senile dementia also have impaired Executive Function. Alzheimer's is also not a personality type.

While the nature of our handicaps do lend themselves to the development of some specific personality traits, AS can't be boiled down to something that simple.

1. true enough, there is much along the spectrum that goes beyond personality type

2. BUT the prime characteristics of Enneagram type 4 and 5 ensure that many of those who fall into those categories will at least test into the "Not quite Aspie" fringe, though there are clearly autistic and Asperger individuals who will not be 4 or 5.

3. The borderline seems very hard to define, though there are clearly in and clearly out.

4. Myers-Briggs will not cut it - what it measures is on a different dimension from Enneatype [though there are discernible relatuionshps they are not correlations].

5.The surface of the topic is barely scratched.

I'm not sure I would frame it as a Myers-Briggs thing but I think you're on to something. Some traits of AS, such as obsessive special interests or caring about truth at the cost of getting along with people, have to do with motivation and emotion. Motivation and emotion fall into the realm of personality. I have often wondered how much of ASD is based on cognitive and perceptual wiring and how much is based on emotion and motivation...obviously both sides are involved, but how? And how separable are emotion and motivation from cognition and perception, even for NTs?

BTW the issue gets even blurrier for me because some personalities, like INTPs, come off as "absent-minded professors," and thus look like AS.

AS is not a personality type.

Evidently if it were we would no longer be formally classed as neither mentally ill or psychiatrically disordered because we would be construed as having a Personality Disorder.

AS is not my personality and my personality is not AS. AS is no more a personality than "non-AS", or being a male or female, or a homosexual or heterosexual.

I can certainly see where you guys come from, and your arguments are valid.
I'll not even say that I'm convinced about my own proposition, but I think it's worth looking into.

Here're some other sources that played a role in making me wonder where personality and Asperger's Syndrome are connected:

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I found a list of various personality tests ... I haven't had time to check them out yet, but right off it seemed promising.
Here's the URL:

http://similarminds.com/personality_tests.html

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The Myers/Briggs test that my result posted here is based on was taken here:

http://humanmetrics.com


As you can see it is the test I mentioned which has a main focus on the job market. - However, when you've taken it there are other tests that focus on other aspects of life than work, such as marriage.

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And in relation to my result I found a site that I find pretty interesting. It describes other personality types in relation to your own type (which ever type you may have).
This URL directs you to the types relating to the INTJ personality, but you can navigate to your own type and take it from there. There's a complete list at the top of the page.
Here goes:

http://typology.com

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I also found a few fora for Personality Types, among others were three for INTJ:

http://intjforum.com

And another forum which has boards for each personality type as well as cross-personality boards, such as f.ex. types with N(iNtuitive)T(Thinking):

personalityCafe

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Maybe I mentioned this before, but I'll do so again (just in case): In at least one of the INTJ fora was a debate about the connection between Asperger's Syndrome and INTJ. It didn't seem to originate from an aspie forum, but you may want to take a look yourself ... here:

INTJ and Asperger's Syndrome

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Good luck. ^L^,

Puzelle.

I also test as INTJ...I joined that forum a while back but was a bit put off by their insistence that I not sign my posts, so I quit posting there. I was like, what's the big difference...

~Kate

All these tests are only for fun, it's not any science. They can help us in thinking about ourselves, our behaviour etc, but we shouldn't put us to any label. It also shows how we see ourselves. It's good to know what type sb is and if they care, you know how to, at least a little.

It's nothing surprising that many of us are INTJs, because this label is for quiet and analysing people. Aspies like to analyse. It's like sextest, if you think spatial, you are a man. It's really simple. Pretty sociotechnic.

It's not difficult to make other result, because these tests are made from stereotypes. If you know stereotypes, you know what they want from you, you can become sb else, but ofc only on the screen.
I find MB test quite well done, but still too simple, easy to make symulations. I wish life was so easy to do exactly what they want

I am ISTJ/INTJ or 8w7... and so what? Nice to know, but I really don't care. I'm still the same person.
Ok, I care a little, I'd like to know as many social mechanisms as it's possible.

Interesting...I am an ISTJ and have a DX of moderate AS. My husband is an INTJ and about as far from Asperger's as one can get.

I'm an ISFJ, which is even more rare.

I'm INTJ but I'm different from a lot of people with AS, which is good because I don't like to be lumped into a group.