19 Sep 2010, 5:50 pm
19 Sep 2010, 6:16 pm
19 Sep 2010, 8:31 pm
MONKEY
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Joined: 3 Jan 2009
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,896
Location: Stoke, England (sometimes :P)
20 Sep 2010, 4:16 am
20 Sep 2010, 7:14 am
20 Sep 2010, 12:58 pm
20 Sep 2010, 2:43 pm
20 Sep 2010, 5:59 pm
AmberEyes
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,438
Location: The Lands where the Jumblies live
21 Sep 2010, 2:27 am
nick007
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Joined: 4 May 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,131
Location: was Louisiana but now Vermont in the police state called USA
21 Sep 2010, 4:20 am
For the most part I don't get jealous of other Aspies or NTs or anyone else but I do get jealous of the women here some because I think things would be a lot easier for me with relationships & other things in life if I was a woman because of the social roles 
Last edited by nick007 on 21 Sep 2010, 5:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
21 Sep 2010, 5:13 am
21 Sep 2010, 8:35 am
21 Sep 2010, 10:05 am
21 Sep 2010, 11:14 am
AmberEyes wrote:
Jealous really doesn't adequately describe how I feel.
It's more a kind of perplexed curiosity.
I wonder why, for instance, some males with AS traits are allowed to show passion and enthusiasm for the Sciences, particularly the Physical Sciences. They seem to be permitted to talk at length about detailed scientific topics, whereas, I've noticed when I try to do the same thing, I'm met with eye-rolls or am ignored completely. I was met with similar reactions when I tried to join an afterschool engineering club. I was the only girl there.
I used to have a few female friends who studied Physics. The ratio of guys to girls is ridiculously high, something like 20 guys to 1 girl in some classes. There was often harassment in these classes. It was very tough. My friends enjoyed Physics and were very skilled at it, but often felt like they were the odd ones out because they were surrounded by boys. The boys seemed to socially have an easier time of it because they were surrounded by "members of their own kind".
I don't know if this is because I'm female, but it seems to be an unwritten rule that I am not permitted to take an intense interest in anything. This is why I'm quiet most of the time. I have so much knowledge and many technical ideas to share, but have to remain silent for fear of upsetting other people. This is why I have to wait for other people to walk up and talk to me before I get involved in a conversation. I don't want to scare people away.
Yet, if a man, especially a scientist, walks up to someone and openly discusses the intricacies and mechanics of the universe. This is somehow more acceptable. Also this man will tend to expect me to listen to what he has to say rather than the other way round.
I often felt sad because I couldn't connect with many people, especially girls to discuss topics like Chemistry and Palaeontology. It often seemed the case that girls were studying these subjects to get more credit points, not because they wanted to be deeply involved with the topics.
I often felt lonely intellectually because I had no one to talk to about my interests, even when I was in classes that covered my interests.
Lots of people, especially the girls, seemed to take every opportunity to disengage with the subject matter and discuss their plans for the weekend. This often disrupted the lesson and the male instructors would get angry with them.
This is why I often felt left out. I wasn't included in the girls' socialising plans and I couldn't discuss anything in depth with them. It was frustrating.
In my Science courses, you had to be a chatty teamworker, knowing the material, having an attention to detail and being meticulous just wasn't enough.
If you were a girl, you were encouraged to do science, but when you actually got to doing science you'd be encouraged to keep quiet about it by your peer group and some of the male instructors.
It's more a kind of perplexed curiosity.
I wonder why, for instance, some males with AS traits are allowed to show passion and enthusiasm for the Sciences, particularly the Physical Sciences. They seem to be permitted to talk at length about detailed scientific topics, whereas, I've noticed when I try to do the same thing, I'm met with eye-rolls or am ignored completely. I was met with similar reactions when I tried to join an afterschool engineering club. I was the only girl there.
I used to have a few female friends who studied Physics. The ratio of guys to girls is ridiculously high, something like 20 guys to 1 girl in some classes. There was often harassment in these classes. It was very tough. My friends enjoyed Physics and were very skilled at it, but often felt like they were the odd ones out because they were surrounded by boys. The boys seemed to socially have an easier time of it because they were surrounded by "members of their own kind".
I don't know if this is because I'm female, but it seems to be an unwritten rule that I am not permitted to take an intense interest in anything. This is why I'm quiet most of the time. I have so much knowledge and many technical ideas to share, but have to remain silent for fear of upsetting other people. This is why I have to wait for other people to walk up and talk to me before I get involved in a conversation. I don't want to scare people away.
Yet, if a man, especially a scientist, walks up to someone and openly discusses the intricacies and mechanics of the universe. This is somehow more acceptable. Also this man will tend to expect me to listen to what he has to say rather than the other way round.
I often felt sad because I couldn't connect with many people, especially girls to discuss topics like Chemistry and Palaeontology. It often seemed the case that girls were studying these subjects to get more credit points, not because they wanted to be deeply involved with the topics.
I often felt lonely intellectually because I had no one to talk to about my interests, even when I was in classes that covered my interests.
Lots of people, especially the girls, seemed to take every opportunity to disengage with the subject matter and discuss their plans for the weekend. This often disrupted the lesson and the male instructors would get angry with them.
This is why I often felt left out. I wasn't included in the girls' socialising plans and I couldn't discuss anything in depth with them. It was frustrating.
In my Science courses, you had to be a chatty teamworker, knowing the material, having an attention to detail and being meticulous just wasn't enough.
If you were a girl, you were encouraged to do science, but when you actually got to doing science you'd be encouraged to keep quiet about it by your peer group and some of the male instructors.
How can you be sure that it's not the ideas you are expressing which are causing the eye rolls, rather than your gender? Had you thought of that before coming to the conclusion that your ideas must be equally valid and that they are only being shrugged at through some fault of the people doing the shrugging? A very superstitiously and unscientifically conceived "fault" at that.
If you presented these "ideas", about your gender being to blame for your lack of scientific acceptance, in most places, I assume you would be met with eye rolls, and it's not because of your gender. You appear to be more obsessed with gender than any male scientist I have ever known.
I'm reminded of the saying that "most feminists are ugly women", always looking to blame uninterested men for refusing to treat them the same as attractive women, choosing to argue about it rather than give in and conform to their "unreasonable male standards of beauty", which just so happen to be built into the universe and weren't simply arbitrarily invented by evil men. Rather in this case, you would blame people for not being attracted to your ideas, instead of questioning why that may be. The gender bias (and very poor, stereotypical view of males) which you have shown in your post, combined with the arrogant confidence in your own intellectual worth, is very "unattractive".
hartzofspace
Supporting Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,138
Location: On the Road Less Traveled
21 Sep 2010, 12:30 pm
AmberEyes wrote:
Jealous really doesn't adequately describe how I feel.
It's more a kind of perplexed curiosity.
I wonder why, for instance, some males with AS traits are allowed to show passion and enthusiasm for the Sciences, particularly the Physical Sciences. They seem to be permitted to talk at length about detailed scientific topics, whereas, I've noticed when I try to do the same thing, I'm met with eye-rolls or am ignored completely. I was met with similar reactions when I tried to join an afterschool engineering club. I was the only girl there.
It's more a kind of perplexed curiosity.
I wonder why, for instance, some males with AS traits are allowed to show passion and enthusiasm for the Sciences, particularly the Physical Sciences. They seem to be permitted to talk at length about detailed scientific topics, whereas, I've noticed when I try to do the same thing, I'm met with eye-rolls or am ignored completely. I was met with similar reactions when I tried to join an afterschool engineering club. I was the only girl there.
Probably they thought that you were following popular NT dating advice; join a club where there are bound to be a lot of guys, so that you can find a date. Female musicians who want to start a band, often get treated the same; it assumed that they are only expressing an interest in bands so they can hook up with a musician.
(My daughter went through this.)
21 Sep 2010, 12:31 pm
Invader wrote:
AmberEyes wrote:
Jealous really doesn't adequately describe how I feel.
It's more a kind of perplexed curiosity.
I wonder why, for instance, some males with AS traits are allowed to show passion and enthusiasm for the Sciences, particularly the Physical Sciences. They seem to be permitted to talk at length about detailed scientific topics, whereas, I've noticed when I try to do the same thing, I'm met with eye-rolls or am ignored completely. I was met with similar reactions when I tried to join an afterschool engineering club. I was the only girl there.
I used to have a few female friends who studied Physics. The ratio of guys to girls is ridiculously high, something like 20 guys to 1 girl in some classes. There was often harassment in these classes. It was very tough. My friends enjoyed Physics and were very skilled at it, but often felt like they were the odd ones out because they were surrounded by boys. The boys seemed to socially have an easier time of it because they were surrounded by "members of their own kind".
I don't know if this is because I'm female, but it seems to be an unwritten rule that I am not permitted to take an intense interest in anything. This is why I'm quiet most of the time. I have so much knowledge and many technical ideas to share, but have to remain silent for fear of upsetting other people. This is why I have to wait for other people to walk up and talk to me before I get involved in a conversation. I don't want to scare people away.
Yet, if a man, especially a scientist, walks up to someone and openly discusses the intricacies and mechanics of the universe. This is somehow more acceptable. Also this man will tend to expect me to listen to what he has to say rather than the other way round.
I often felt sad because I couldn't connect with many people, especially girls to discuss topics like Chemistry and Palaeontology. It often seemed the case that girls were studying these subjects to get more credit points, not because they wanted to be deeply involved with the topics.
I often felt lonely intellectually because I had no one to talk to about my interests, even when I was in classes that covered my interests.
Lots of people, especially the girls, seemed to take every opportunity to disengage with the subject matter and discuss their plans for the weekend. This often disrupted the lesson and the male instructors would get angry with them.
This is why I often felt left out. I wasn't included in the girls' socialising plans and I couldn't discuss anything in depth with them. It was frustrating.
In my Science courses, you had to be a chatty teamworker, knowing the material, having an attention to detail and being meticulous just wasn't enough.
If you were a girl, you were encouraged to do science, but when you actually got to doing science you'd be encouraged to keep quiet about it by your peer group and some of the male instructors.
It's more a kind of perplexed curiosity.
I wonder why, for instance, some males with AS traits are allowed to show passion and enthusiasm for the Sciences, particularly the Physical Sciences. They seem to be permitted to talk at length about detailed scientific topics, whereas, I've noticed when I try to do the same thing, I'm met with eye-rolls or am ignored completely. I was met with similar reactions when I tried to join an afterschool engineering club. I was the only girl there.
I used to have a few female friends who studied Physics. The ratio of guys to girls is ridiculously high, something like 20 guys to 1 girl in some classes. There was often harassment in these classes. It was very tough. My friends enjoyed Physics and were very skilled at it, but often felt like they were the odd ones out because they were surrounded by boys. The boys seemed to socially have an easier time of it because they were surrounded by "members of their own kind".
I don't know if this is because I'm female, but it seems to be an unwritten rule that I am not permitted to take an intense interest in anything. This is why I'm quiet most of the time. I have so much knowledge and many technical ideas to share, but have to remain silent for fear of upsetting other people. This is why I have to wait for other people to walk up and talk to me before I get involved in a conversation. I don't want to scare people away.
Yet, if a man, especially a scientist, walks up to someone and openly discusses the intricacies and mechanics of the universe. This is somehow more acceptable. Also this man will tend to expect me to listen to what he has to say rather than the other way round.
I often felt sad because I couldn't connect with many people, especially girls to discuss topics like Chemistry and Palaeontology. It often seemed the case that girls were studying these subjects to get more credit points, not because they wanted to be deeply involved with the topics.
I often felt lonely intellectually because I had no one to talk to about my interests, even when I was in classes that covered my interests.
Lots of people, especially the girls, seemed to take every opportunity to disengage with the subject matter and discuss their plans for the weekend. This often disrupted the lesson and the male instructors would get angry with them.
This is why I often felt left out. I wasn't included in the girls' socialising plans and I couldn't discuss anything in depth with them. It was frustrating.
In my Science courses, you had to be a chatty teamworker, knowing the material, having an attention to detail and being meticulous just wasn't enough.
If you were a girl, you were encouraged to do science, but when you actually got to doing science you'd be encouraged to keep quiet about it by your peer group and some of the male instructors.
How can you be sure that it's not the ideas you are expressing which are causing the eye rolls, rather than your gender? Had you thought of that before coming to the conclusion that your ideas must be equally valid and that they are only being shrugged at through some fault of the people doing the shrugging? A very superstitiously and unscientifically conceived "fault" at that.
If you presented these "ideas", about your gender being to blame for your lack of scientific acceptance, in most places, I assume you would be met with eye rolls, and it's not because of your gender. You appear to be more obsessed with gender than any male scientist I have ever known.
I'm reminded of the saying that "most feminists are ugly women", always looking to blame uninterested men for refusing to treat them the same as attractive women, choosing to argue about it rather than give in and conform to their "unreasonable male standards of beauty", which just so happen to be built into the universe and weren't simply arbitrarily invented by evil men. Rather in this case, you would blame people for not being attracted to your ideas, instead of questioning why that may be. The gender bias (and very poor, stereotypical view of males) which you have shown in your post, combined with the arrogant confidence in your own intellectual worth, is very "unattractive".
you seem to have absolutely no idea what kind of gender discrimination that female scientists face. perhaps some of the eye rolls could be due to the ideas themselves, but considering the difficulties that many, many female scientists experience, at least some (if not most) of the eye-rolling could be attributed to her gender.
i am not a scientist. but when i took science classes in school, my opinions were often met with derision or laughter, but if a male student presented the same idea a few minutes later, his opinion was taken more seriously. this happened on several occasions.
i would say that YOU are automatically assuming that men are rolling their eyes because of the content of her ideas instead of her gender - which you have absolutely no evidence to support. is this based on the fact she is a female, and therefore must not have valid scientific ideas?
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