Shyness/Introversion vs mild AS-Differences.

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TalusJumper
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21 Jan 2012, 9:56 am

I was considered shy as a kid (many years before AS was diagnosed). But that would not explain my bouncy walking gait or my echolalia (or the other issues I suffered and still suffer with)... :roll:



TalusJumper
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21 Jan 2012, 10:03 am

I was considered shy as a kid (many years before AS was diagnosed). But that would not explain my bouncy walking gait or my echolalia (or the other issues I suffered and still suffer with)... :roll:



Dillogic
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21 Jan 2012, 10:07 am

XFilesGeek,

You forgot the bit where it has "appropriately".

Lorna Wing means that the social interaction of those with AS will be one-sided and lecturing instead of the two way give and take of normal social interaction. Social reciprocation is what it's called. It says the same thing in Hans' paper too.



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21 Jan 2012, 11:59 am

Dillogic wrote:
XFilesGeek,

You forgot the bit where it has "appropriately".

Lorna Wing means that the social interaction of those with AS will be one-sided and lecturing instead of the two way give and take of normal social interaction. Social reciprocation is what it's called. It says the same thing in Hans' paper too.


No I didn't.

We're currently having a "two-sided" interaction. Do neither of us have AS now?

If no Aspie can ever engage in a two-sided social interaction, then no one on this website has AS.

I engage in plenty of two-sided social interactions.


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Dillogic
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21 Jan 2012, 12:31 pm

It's on the internet; the internet doesn't count in this regard (one has time to think about what they're saying). Also, if you ask me about something social, rather than factual, I won't answer you. That's the core of social reciprocity, not the exchange of factual data on an interest.

Perhaps many people don't have "AS"; I wouldn't know or not unless I've spoken to their doctor.



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21 Jan 2012, 12:41 pm

Dillogic wrote:
It's on the internet; the internet doesn't count in this regard (one has time to think about what they're saying). Also, if you ask me about something social, rather than factual, I won't answer you. That's the core of social reciprocity, not the exchange of factual data on an interest.

Perhaps many people don't have "AS"; I wouldn't know or not unless I've spoken to their doctor.


Hans' paper doesn't mention whether or not the internet "counts" regarding social interaction. It also doesn't mention if whether or not it "counts" if people have time to consider what they're going to say. Therefore, it's just speculation as to whether "internet interaction" counts as "social interaction."

And social questions are usually "factual" questions. "What did you do last Friday night?" is an inquiry concerning facts.


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Last edited by XFilesGeek on 21 Jan 2012, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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21 Jan 2012, 12:42 pm

Dillogic wrote:
It's on the internet; the internet doesn't count in this regard (one has time to think about what they're saying). Also, if you ask me about something social, rather than factual, I won't answer you. That's the core of social reciprocity, not the exchange of factual data on an interest.


I agree. I think most of my interaction on the internet is one-sided. For instance posting on a forum, I'm usually just offering information or offering my opinion. And the way I expect it to go is each person just weighs in with their thoughts on a topic without really getting personal. If a person starts replying to my posts over and over, like they are having more of a conversation with me in particular, I get really freaked out. Private messages and emails are really difficult for me, and I mostly avoid that kind of interaction.



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21 Jan 2012, 12:43 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Hans' paper doesn't mention whether or not the internet "counts" or in social interaction. It also doesn't mention if whether or not it "counts" if people have time to consider what they're going to say. Therefore, it's just speculation as to whether "internet interaction" counts as "social interaction.".


Most of my online interactions are not in real time. The only real time ones are in the mmorpg I play and I don't talk a lot there.



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21 Jan 2012, 12:46 pm

dianthus wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
It's on the internet; the internet doesn't count in this regard (one has time to think about what they're saying). Also, if you ask me about something social, rather than factual, I won't answer you. That's the core of social reciprocity, not the exchange of factual data on an interest.


I agree. I think most of my interaction on the internet is one-sided. For instance posting on a forum, I'm usually just offering information or offering my opinion. And the way I expect it to go is each person just weighs in with their thoughts on a topic without really getting personal. If a person starts replying to my posts over and over, like they are having more of a conversation with me in particular, I get really freaked out. Private messages and emails are really difficult for me, and I mostly avoid that kind of interaction.


And I've seen plenty of people here "reply" to each other in the same manner as I've observed on run-of-the-mill introvert forums.

There's plenty of "two-way social interaction" going on in this forum.

And I've noticed that no one's bothered to define what they mean by "social stuff." If merely having a two-way conversation is "social stuff," then no one on WP has AS.


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XFilesGeek
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21 Jan 2012, 12:53 pm

hanyo wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Hans' paper doesn't mention whether or not the internet "counts" or in social interaction. It also doesn't mention if whether or not it "counts" if people have time to consider what they're going to say. Therefore, it's just speculation as to whether "internet interaction" counts as "social interaction.".


Most of my online interactions are not in real time. The only real time ones are in the mmorpg I play and I don't talk a lot there.


So what? Online interactions are "two-way interactions."

Hans didn't live to see the internet; therefore, we have no idea if he would consider the internet "social stuff."

Yesterday, I had several "two-way" conversations with the people I work with. It was a hard won skill, but I can do it. According to Hans, the fact that I can do it at all means I'm not AS. Oh, and Hans primarily only studied boys.

It seems like people are pushing pretty hard to define "socializing" in such a way as to prove they don't "really" socialize. Personally, I don't care. I can have "two-way" interactions with people, and I'm fairly sure I did as a child. Whether these interactions were "quality" social interactions as measured against the social skill set demonstrated by my age group is entirely subjective.


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24 Jan 2012, 2:35 pm

Well I consider myself a shy person. I come from a shy, quiet family (mostly my mum's side) and they all seem to have a meek characteristic in them which I also have. Also I can relate and make friends with shy NTs, and stay friends with them too, and I can also just pass off as a shy NT to other people.

I'm actually glad I'm a shy Aspie, because I spend more time thinking than I do talking, which gives me more time to think what to say and how to act and see if it will be the right thing or not, and it usually works. I also spend a lot of time observing and ''studying'' general NT behaviour and so I pick it up a lot quicker and easier than most Aspies do.


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29 Jan 2012, 5:53 am

My psychological condition (AvPD and traits both from SPD and OCPD plus social phobia) is very similar to aspies might display but "it is all in my head". I can change my behavior and succeed for a while. I'm personality disordered so it is very hard to make permanent changes in certain situations. I push people away in a very gentle way like "I'm sorry, I have something else to do". I'm usually afraid and I hate superficial parties and stuff. It's only a preference nothing else.

Anxiety generated by my personality can make skill profile uneven. But when I'm relaxed that problem vanishes. I've started self-suggestion and my anxiety is started to evaporate.

Do you think that there are people misdiagnosed having aspergers when "it is only in their head"? I was close.

I am totally social outcast. I have broke connections to my frienships and so on.



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29 Jan 2012, 9:13 am

FTM wrote:
When I was a kid I kept getting told I was shy all the time by adults. My answer was always "I'm not shy I'm just quiet". Infact I was so innocent looking I could cause trouble and my friends would get the blame while I stood innocently by. I always knew I had this power of innocense.


Glad to know I'm not alone in this! :wink:


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26 Aug 2018, 10:30 pm

Kon wrote:
Any opinions?

Shyness and AS: similarities and differences?

A while back, an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal called Asperger’s disorder “a pompous label for shyness”. While perhaps going a bit far, I think it highlights a point: there are a number of similarities between people with (mild) Asperger’s and people with shyness/social anxiety. While the standard issue answer to this question is, “Aspergers don’t know how to interact, shy people do but are freaked out”, one should consider that lack of social skills is widely reported in the literature on social anxiety and avoidant personality disorder. Many shy people withdraw for so many years that they lose the opportunity to develop social skills. Thus, they can’t maintain a conversation, awkward silences, may be socially immature and underdeveloped, be withdrawn…just like people with Asperger’s disorder.

Except in extreme cases, where the person in question is literally obsessed with some archaic topic, talks at people endlessly about said topic, has sensory issues, takes everything extremely literally and can not make generalizations, I would say social phobia/AvPD is almost always the more appropriate diagnosis. My feeling is a lot of people these days in the Social Phobia/Avoidant ballpark are misdiagnosed as Asperger’s because it is a “trendy” diagnosis and the outward appearance can be so similar. I am especially skeptical about those online who claim to have Asperger’s yet seldom ever mention any other symptom than the usual “I’m XX years old and never had a girlfriend.” To me, that’s classic Avoidant Personality, not Asperger’s, except if there are fairly clear-cut autistic traits accompanying it.

Am I wrong here? Am I off base? I think what I’m saying is fairly reasonable, and I wish people on the internet would stop calling themselves “Aspies” because they are introverts or experience a mild and very normal level of social awkwardness that would disappear if they stepped away from the computer for a few minutes. I’m actually glad Asperger’s is being dropped from the DSM-V and being merged into Autism Spectrum Disorder. This way, the people really afflicted with it will still qualify for an ASD diagnosis, and the shy, introverted nerds will no longer have an excuse for being a social shut-in and will actually maybe grow a pair and start…gasp! talking to girls…

http://www.goanxiety.info/archives/shyn ... ences.html


Your rigid requirements for textbook cases of Asperger’s is actually the mentality that leads to it being missed in many diagnoses. Far short of being “trendy” AS is usually the last resort when a psychiatrist has exhausted all possible personality disorders. (This is doubly true for females who usually present with milder symptoms)

With age and time, even most severe Aspies learn their special interests needs to be restrained and that NT dont always speAk literally. Whereas there are bound to be slip ups due to the true nature
of an aspie, more or less you get a person who would be labelled introverted if one merely looked at the surface.
Simultaneously, there are introverts/ social rejects who claim the label. However, the difference is when social conditions are right, they are in sync with all other NT people. An Aspie is merely going through the script for proper social interaction.