"I have Asperger's" is no excuse.

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hale_bopp
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28 May 2011, 12:33 am

Agree with the original poster. Some people are rude on purpose then pull it out.

Seph
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28 May 2011, 12:54 am

wefunction wrote:

Well, Seph, I'm high-functioning so I don't really consider it a joke. Both my son and I have been classified as "very high functioning"... which... again... I cannot wait for the new DSM so all this "low/mid/high/very high" crap stops. It's very convoluted and confusing. None of these terms have absolute meaning. That will change.

Have you tried looking in a mirror and practicing different looks? If you spend the time practicing facial expressions and attempting to make your eyes look differently when they're looking at someone, you might be able to start controlling how you look at others. Watch how an actor looks at someone in a movie... how he looks, then looks away, then looks back and then looks away again. Decipher the pattern and then use it again in the mirror. Keep practicing until you think you can duplicate it without looking in the mirror.

The 12-step group being what it is, you might want to say that you're autistic and explain the trouble that you have with people misunderstanding you, even just from looking at people. Explain that you're trying a mirror trick that some crazy woman on the internet suggested and ask for their help and ideas on how to do things differently. You might get some good advice. If you can context it to say that your autism isn't a big thing, it's some little things that just make you different enough to make people exclude you, they might understand you better. I say this because this is a 12-step group. The rules about support, understanding and discretion could provide the security you'd need that others just wouldn't have in different situations.

I hope you didn't take the phrase calling "high-functioning" a cruel joke as a personal insult. I didn't mean it as such. It was used to express frustration of trying to be functional when I know I'm not. The terms have never actually been in the DSM and aren't official designations. They're only used colloquially to destinguish from severe autism. I honestly don't see it changing in the new DSM. I actually see it worse when Asperger's gets merged.

I appreciate the advice with practicing faces in the mirror. I'll keep it in mind and try it in the future. Right now I just need to concentrate on getting past this depressive cycle I'm in...

Daryl_Blonder
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28 May 2011, 1:06 am

Agree with the OP. It applies to not just things we say, but things we do too.

If you don't know what to say, don't say anything at all. When in doubt just be nice.

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NarcissusSavage
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28 May 2011, 1:24 am

Kon wrote:

NarcissusSavage wrote:

If I'm a jerk, that's A OK with me....Has everything to do with a self generated sense of self worth and complete disregard of outward opinions of self.

Doesn't your own opinion of yourself get depreciated when you believe you've been a jerk? I mean you must have some ideal that allows you to measure yourself against? I'm guessing being a jerk isn't that ideal. So when you are a jerk doesn't your self-worth go down because you have gone further away from your ideal? Just trying to understand.

Rephrased. "If I'm labeled a jerk, that's A OK with me."

Edit; But to answer your question. No, actually. I'm generally quite proud of myself when I believe I have been a jerk. It is a truely rare occasion that I stand up for myself, and if the consequence of doing so is being a jerk, it's overall still a possitive.

And on a side note, self image and self worth may be related, but are not the same. My self image may change over time, but that does not have to have an impact on my self worth. Even if I do something "bad" I don't have to have a decreased worth. This is an issue related to cognitive dissonance...I am comfortable existing in a dissonant state.

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Last edited by NarcissusSavage on 28 May 2011, 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Seph
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28 May 2011, 1:26 am

I'm emotionally triggered right now so, please, take this post in stride.

Daryl_Blonder wrote:

If you don't know what to say, don't say anything at all.

I find this dehumanizing.

I've been essentially mute for 34 years and you're telling me to not say anything at all?

No... just no.

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NarcissusSavage
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28 May 2011, 1:36 am

Seph wrote:

I'm emotionally triggered right now so, please, take this post in stride.

Daryl_Blonder wrote:

If you don't know what to say, don't say anything at all.

I find this dehumanizing.

I've been essentially mute for 34 years and you're telling me to not say anything at all?

No... just no.

I agree. No one ever "Knows what to say". What does that statement even mean? It's rhetoric. Garbage recycled by parents without original thought in an attempt to socially bandaid thier childrens communication missteps. It's rediculous too, without making mistakes and just remaining silent, you will not learn or grow, your opinions and contributions will remain unheard.

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Verdandi
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28 May 2011, 2:44 am

Daryl_Blonder wrote:

Agree with the OP. It applies to not just things we say, but things we do too.

If you don't know what to say, don't say anything at all. When in doubt just be nice.

Oh, if only it were that simple.

Not about using it to excuse rudeness. I mean knowing something is rude to begin with, or knowing how to be nice.

I like what I heard when I was majoring in music: If you make a mistake, make it loud.

I also agree with Seph's and NarcissusSavage's replies to this.

NarcissusSavage wrote:

I just don't concern myself with it.

If someone thinks I'm rude, that's fine with me. I don't need to weight my worth or personal value on the perceptions of others.

I very, very rarely appologize for anything. And never make excuses.

If I'm a jerk, that's A OK with me.

Has nothing to do with Aspergers.

Has everything to do with a self generated sense of self worth and complete disregard of outward opinions of self.

When I choose not to be rude, relying on my accumulated decades of lessons in this topic, I don't do it out of weighting my worth or personal value on the perceptions of others. There are really two factors that go into this:

1) I don't see the point of unnecessarily antagonizing or hurting other people. What do I get out of hurting someone else's feelings or deliberately offending them? In most social situations, nothing but more stress for me.

2) I don't see the point of taking actions that are contrary to my intended goals, or make those goals harder to achieve.

But outward opinions of self? Oh, if I cared about that I think my life would have gone a bit differently. Often I'm downright oblivious to those.

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28 May 2011, 3:09 am

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:

"I have Asperger's" is no excuse. If a kid says something rude to you, you tell them why it was rude and why they shouldn't do that. If an adult does the same, and you rebuff them, and they just say "I have Asperger's, so I do that," then you tell them to go f**k themselves. If they say "oh, sorry..." then you accept their apology. People with Asperger's can learn social skills and not be a jerk. People can overcome it through effort and practice, so using it to excuse as*hole behavior is BS.

As much as I don't like some of your posts, I have to agree with you on this one.

swbluto
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28 May 2011, 10:21 am

But I'm usually rude to people because I want to and I'm trying to get diagnosed so that I can excuse it on a whim. You're telling me I legitimately can't? f**k you.

Sorry, that's my AS. :wink:

Maje
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28 May 2011, 11:03 am

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:

And with that strike the problem is solved...(lol) Who has a problem here?

Quote:

If they say "oh, sorry..." then you accept their apology.

"Im so sorry" (sugar voice) and Dark_Lord_2008 is happy again.... wow thats easy!

Quote:

People with Asperger's can learn social skills and not be a jerk. People can overcome it through effort and practice, so using it to excuse as*hole behavior is BS.

My as*hole behavior is your narrow perception and therefore your problem. If I would explain to you why I do things wrong in your eyes, you would not feel offended anymore, but typically it takes a lot of effort explaining the other way of seing things, and so the Aspergers excuse would be ok for me.

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28 May 2011, 11:42 am

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:

I use I have Aspergers as an excuse for why I pull away from another person's touch. I have found telling them I am autistic instead of yelling don't touch me keeps them from being insulted.

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draelynn
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28 May 2011, 12:11 pm

I pull away from people because I have fibromyalgia and it frigging hurts to be touched. People go from insulted to understanding when they understand the reason why they are being rejected. Why should it be any different for Asperger's? If you can't make eye contact with your boss and it is causing him to distrust you or question your work ethic telling him you have a condition that causes this reaction not only teaches but also protects your position against the perceived 'negatives' that would get a normal person fired.

If you want to walk walk around insulting people just to get a reaction - then flip them off with 'I have asperger's' then you are just an as*hole who is making things harder for the rest.

I'm just afriad that this question is one that can force alot of people into self imposed exile. If people feel they cannot go out in public because they are going to screw up and they don't want to 'use an excuse' then this thinking is too toxic to tolerate. If someone goes out and makes some spectacular blunders and in the course of an apology explains 'I have Asperger's - I did not intend any offense, alot of the time, I'm not very aware for what is and isn't offensive. I wasn't trying to hurt you and I'm sorry that I did." It may repair a relationship, it may not, but at least it empower someone to keep trying to get it right. It's a reason - not an excuse, just as a double amputation is a reason to use a wheel chair. No one would accuse a double amputee of just being lazy and wanting primo parking...

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28 May 2011, 12:48 pm

draelynn wrote:

I actually have to agree with this. I think people might also be quick to label this as "using it as an excuse" which is of course not the case. Explanations are distinct from excuses.

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28 May 2011, 1:02 pm

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:

But you're not being an as*hole if you don't know you're doing something wrong. It's not about knowing the rules and then breaking them anyway, it's about breaking rules that you never knew existed. Add that to the fact that nts would rather bring on the personal insults than help you out and let you know what you're doing wrong and the misunderstandings just keep coming.

League_Girl
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28 May 2011, 1:12 pm

To me "using it as an excuse" means doing stuff on purpose and then using the label or just blaming stuff on it that may not have anything to do with it or when it has nothing to do with it.

Like let's say a person in a wheelchair thinks they are entitled to run people over with their wheels because they are in a wheelchair. They go around and run over peoples toes and not even be courteous and say excuse me to get through or not even say sorry when they do it on accident just because they are in a wheelchair, now that is using your wheelchair as an excuse. But let's say they can't participate in a sport because you need working legs to play, that is not using it as an excuse, it's a reason.

I grew up that "excuse" meant a cop out, not a reason. If you have a reason, then you are not using it as an excuse. Like let's say I am on my way to work and I get stuck behind the train so it makes me ten minutes late to work, am I using the train as an excuse for my lateness? No, it's a reason. What other options could there be to prevent this? What other options could there be to make me be to work on time? None so therefore it's not an excuse, it's a reason. When people saying something is not an excuse, they mean there were other options you could have taken and I interpret that as they are using something as an excuse.

But if people want to call those excuses, oh boy I be offended if they said them to my face because I think they be accusing me of making excuses and bullshitting. But if they went no no no, I mean you had a valid excuse but to me it still means it could have been prevented but I chose to not take any other options.

Sometimes I think people are using irony when they say someone has an excuse now such as food allergies so they have an excuse to not eat something they are allergic too and I take that as irony.

But of course I have finally realized just because I can think of other options and someone had an excuse for it doesn't mean they refused to do those other options, maybe they just didn't think of it. After all not everyone is as smart. So I wouldn't call them excuses they have or else I am implying they are making it up and they are using it as a cop out. But sadly lot of people lack this TOM because they assume those are excuses because they think there were other ways and they don't even bother to ask "Why didn't you...." or "Couldn't you have..." they just assume they knew of those other options or assume those options would have worked for them.

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28 May 2011, 1:15 pm

TechnoMonk wrote:

Dark_Lord_2008 wrote:

I think he means refusing to learn social skills and intentionally saying things you know is rude and then saying it's your AS. That's how I interpreted his post or else it be absurd if he meant the other way around which is how some members like you are interpreting it.

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