I wonder, are we the start of a new "homo" species

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I've been doing a lot of research on world history recently. I thought it would give me a better perspective on the world today, and I believe that so far, it has done so. I'm currently at the Bronze Age, but of particular interest to me is the theory of evolution and the formation of new species, particularly homo sapiens.

See, I believe in evolution. I believe it must be so, given that mountain of intermediate fossils with consistent dating throughout earth's history.

What I do not believe in, however, is natural selection as an explanation for evolution. I just don't believe a random mutation in a single individual could save an entire species from extinction, particularly given that that trait would need to reach a significant number of individuals, as well as being the key to survival of an imminent disaster. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. I think that whatever causes evolution, it's deliberate. Organisms change, and they do so on a mass scale, specifically because it is needed. Why? I don't know. Maybe it's GOD. Maybe it's something we just don't understand yet, but in any case, the changes throughout evolutionary history seem like such a huge coincidence, I have a hard time believing anything else.

I was reading about human evolution. Every time our ancestors were faced with some threat to their survival, a new species, over a period of many generations, branched off to the point where the two were no longer the same species anymore. Sometimes, this allowed the new species to have greater success in a changing environment. Other times, the old species would even die out as a result of lacking the change.

These days, our environment is changing yet again. Social interaction just wasn't what it was anymore, and knowing how to operate a computer is quickly becoming as important as knowing how to read or drive a car. The degree of knowledge expected increases rapidly overtime as well. Back in Ancient Egypt, a "scribe", or someone that could, wait for it, actually read (OMG OMG!) was considered a highly specialized skill, just like programming is considered today. Perhaps within another 500-2000 years, programming will be something everyone will be expected to do.

Doesn't it seem rather odd, that in such changing times, a "Disability" is rapidly emerging within our species that is better adapted to such a world? Doesn't it seem strange to you that the differences in mental thinking are so great, whole articles are necessary to explain it rather than a short answer? I find it interesting how many people are interested in computers on this forum. It's far more proportionately than with neurotypicals. Though we have not yet reached the point where we are no longer human on a scientific level, perhaps this is just the start of something much more extensive?

I'm not saying aspies are a "superior" species, just that we're "different" on more than a metaphorical level, and that we are evolution's response to the information age. What do you think?

I’m not particularly good with computers. I think that although a lot of people with AS are good with them, it is a stereotype to say that we all are. Also I think that a forum on the internet would of course attract the more computer savvy of AS people.

I see what you're saying here...but I'm not sure about us being a separate species. The definition of a species is:

--
The major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species.
--

Aspies and NTs can produce healthy young, so technically I would argue that we're not separate species. But I do see your point about aspies being better adapted at some aspects of modern life, such as computer literacy, but the advantages aren't yet so widespread to make us the dominant 'species.'

Hope this most makes some sort of sense.

You probably have skills that would make you good with computers, if you spent enough time with them. Not that I'm saying you should, or criticizing you.



As far as the evolution thing goes. I've had some thoughts about this myself.

I don't know if it would be as far as a new species or sub species, but Autism as something that evolved, rather than something that just suddenly apeared "a few years ago" seems like it's reasonable.


One NT I converse with fairly regularly said that he opposes anything that limits human genetic diversity. When compared to other animals, there isn't that much of a difference.

In the future more and more aspies might advance in society, given that our special interests would be promoted in a more intellectual and tolerant civilization. But it's a long, long, long way there.

But one day aspies migth, just migth, be the superior specie of mankind and the NT's will be our slaves or servants. Probably just a dream but a dream that cheers me up.

I agree that the brain is constantly evolving, i also think in a few hundred or maybe thousands of years most people will be on the autistic spectrum and this will be cosidered normal. At the same time a small percentage of the population will have evolved further and will be considered abnormal as AS people are today.

Maybe we're not a new species then, but perhaps a new breed. Different breeds of dogs can be better suited to different lifestyles and different environments, so maybe we're closer to a new breed of human than a whole new species.

The plans for world domination only have one problem: the breeding of aspie legions of d00m.
Our breeding doesn't go so well..

For Aspies to diverge into a new species, there would have to be some reproductive benefit to being an Aspie. If anything, being an Aspie seems to be a reproductive handicap, judging from the higher-than-normal percentage of asexuals among those with ASDs and the difficulties Aspies can encounter when trying to find a mate. I would also be highly surprised if told that Aspies generally have larger families than NTs do.

Thus, I highly doubt that those of us with ASDs are becoming a new species. Remember, evolutionary fitness focuses on the amount of offspring an individual can produce and no other criteria.

Unfortunately, you forget that breeds are the products of artificial selection. I highly doubt that there is some 'higher' species choosing our mates for us on a basis of how well we perform specific tasks or possibly our hair color.

Selection at the level of the species is an out-dated idea, and has been replaced by the theory of selection at the individual level, or even at the gene level itself. I would highly recommend Richard Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene". But the mistake you're making is looking at species survival as an all or nothing. One gene mutation may confer only a very slight advantage, on average, over other individuals in the species. But that slight advantage could be enough to statistically increase the number of desendants that individual leaves.

Also, one species dividing into two usually only occurs when two groups of the species become seperated by some physical, e.g. geographical, barrier which stops them interbreeding. All humans pretty much freely interbreed, so there is not much chance of seperate species developing.

Well, the aspie women have to do their duty to promote us.

Hey, I'm doing my part. I have 2 PDD kids. Both of them are scary, blow-you-away smart and high functioning.

As you phrase it, evolution is quite hard to believe. However I think you are looking at it differently than I always have. The first thing to remember is that it takes a long time. So it is not that in the lifetime of the next generation there will be a drought and by a fluke that generation is born better equiped to survive drought. Its more gradual, as Zamzara said.

Also, when the evolution does appear to have come just in time to avert exctinction, this case of evolution is subject to what I call "13th Floor Cat Syndrome"


13th Floor Cat Syndrome:
The idea proposes that you are more likely to hear about a cat that wondrously survives a 13 floor fall than about a cat that survives a 2 floor fall. It proposes that this is likely, not only despite the relative probabilities of survival, but in fact because of those relative probabilities. Lots of cats survive a 2 floor fall, it is not remarkable. But few cats survive the 13 floor fall. Naively this would suggest that you will hear about more cats surviving the 2 floor fall, because more do survive. However, you will more often hear about the 13th floor Cat, because this is remarkable and rare, a better story, and thus it is told more.


So in short, for every species that made a lucky escape, there were others that failed, and this species also evolved in many other ways that are not retold because they did not have the same dramatic effect, despite involving a similar level of mutation.

Sorry for the slightly off-topic post.

Of my dads 3 biologic kids me and my half sister are likely ASD we have no kids and my
guess want. My other sister who seems to not to be ASD has two boys which may or may not have ASD.

My mother has one other biologic kid (a son)who does not have ASD and has 4 kids. Though they all have extreme learning problems, drug abuse, etc.

So that seems our gene pass indirectily generation to generation. My mom has no
brother or sisters.

My father has two brothers but they have no biologic sons other than me. I'm in fact the only one who can pass the family name and genetics.


Oh on funny note poor , screwed up people (like my brother) in this world have for more kids so evolution is keeping us in the gene pool because "losers" produce more kids
(I mean indirectily via our gene carrier brothers and sisters) If thats true your life is
painfull because that what evolution needs to make more babies so stop crying.

My apologies for the misunderstanding. I wasn't trying to say that we are already a separate species, simply that we are the beginning of the formation of one. That new species will take quite a long time to completely diverge from homo sapiens. The differences at that point would be far beyond our current isolation.

I do realize that evolution takes a very long time to occur. I was looking at timelines and dates when I read all that stuff, and it was nearly impossible for me to comprehend such a vast length of time, but I did so by imagining how many modern human generations could fit into them, and I managed. Even given such a huge amount of time for the dice to roll the exact right number, the chances of a species randomly evolving a trait to survive, having that trait spread into the population, then having all but those with the trait wiped out to complete the process, is so astronomically low that I have a hard time believing it could happen even once, let alone millions of times throughout earth's history. Even more holes get poked when you consider complex biological devices that are programmed into the organism by a huge number of genes. No random mutation is going to make a tentacle grow out of my head, because of the complexity involved in producing a tentacle.

Concerning the point about the reproductive capabilities of aspies: I am not saying aspies are going to take over the world or anything. In nature, this kind of force would lead to that, not because of reproductive success, but because even a slight disadvantage in survival capabilities would result in the demise of a species. Stupid, primitive people without a society would kill eachother over differences. But now we live in a very different world where the only species that die out are ones humanity does not care about. What would likely happen is nothing dramatic - simply the fully evolved aspies living alongside their evolutionary relatives - perhaps within the same society, but likely in separate settlements or countries due to the huge gap in brain differences that would likely be reached at that point.

I mainly found the idea intresting because I've never thought of myself as 100% human. I've been labeled as ret*d for the same reason animals are labeled as mentally inferior - I didn't think like a human being, and as similarity to human thought is the popular way of gaging intelligence, I end up being judged as dumb. If I can think that differently from normal humans - different enough to be judged in a similar way to an animal (albeit to a lesser extent), I must be well on my way to losing my humanity. Strangely, I find that thought gives me comfort.