Are people on the spectrum capable of manipulation?

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I know that I don't have a tendency to manipulate people, but I'm not sure if it's because I'm not "good" at it, or if it's because I have no motivation to be good at it.

I'm talking about crafty, abuse type of manipulation here. Like a person who is a master of manipulation techniques.

Thanks!

I'm very good, but also have been diagnosed with some symptoms of pathological demand avoidance syndrome (wikipeadia it if you don't know what it is/look at the national autistic society website).

While I am not 100% certain of my diagnosis, I know that I can be manipulative at times. For example, I do know how to negotiate prices when shopping for a car or buying something from a pawn shop or garage sale. However, I am far more likely to be manipulated than to manipulate someone in my personal life. I have had to learn to say "no" to people in that I always want to help people and will overextend myself if I am not careful. I also had to learn to take charge of situations as an adult as I had lost that ability in my teenage years. It's a complicated question though and not easy to answer.

I think that you did a great job of answering my question. It was very honest and detailed...and left me with the sense that while you can manipulate on some basic level (like myself) you are by no means a "master-manipulator" nor could you be if you tried.

Manipulate for what i consider to be the right thing to do morally - yes
Manipulate just for the power trip of it all - no way

That is very interesting! I've never even heard of this before, but I did read a brief description and I'm going to read more about it.

I think its partly cos it dont come easy, and partly cos you dont have the motivation - it doesn't float your boat to manipulate others. Because you believe people only manipulate others for personal gain and thats selfish and wrong.

I think there are other autistics who have learned to manipulate (perhaps for survival, or amusement, or cos its their special interest) and they can develop a real flair for it, being able to read a person. Its self-taught/coming up with patterns of behaviour.

I'm afraid, I'm extremely creatively crafty and manipulative. But im not interested in doing anything for my own personal gain. I'm really not. Except the pleasure of good things. Little things. I would never manipulate people really close to me (I can't) I'm not abusive, I'm just good at reading people and I like helping others. That's what the people close to me tell me. That I'm crafty but kind. I just know how to make a good move or suggestion that will result in someone's actions being a good thing. And it would always be little things. Nothing that really invades someone.

Depends on what you mean by manipulation.

In a psych class once it was mentioned that just saying "hello" is an attempt at manipulation, becuase you're trying to get the other person to say "hello" back. Obviously not maleficent, but you're still influencing another person's behaviour or thoughts. Magicians use manipulation, too, to get to to look at wherever's appropriate for their trick at the time.

Whether there's abusive intent or not, the more complex the intended reaction, the more solid a theory-of-mind is needed. Given that a lack of ToM is a major aspect of AS, I would say that a lot of one's non-manipulative nature comes from (a) not being good at it and (b) not even considering it as an option.

Saying this, I know a very manipulative (in a maleficent kind of way) aspie, so I'm sure if you really wanted to be manipulative, you could certainly learn it.

Thanks for all of the responses everyone!

I'm talking about a person who is capable of controlling another persons actions for their own personal gain. Feeling entitled to have control over all sorts of aspects of someone elses life and/or decision making, but knowing that they cannot come right out and tell them what to do (and expect them to do it or be okay with it). A person who is capable of getting an unsuspecting third party to manipulate on their behalf, without them (the third party) even being aware of it - or using the third party to cover up their lies without them being aware of what they are doing. A person who is capable of molding another's mind to believe that they are making their own decisions, or that they have no choice but to make a decision that they do not want to make, without seeing that it is to the direct gain of the manipulator. A person who is capable of making a situation seem like it has nothing to do with them at all, and speaks only through other people to keep themselves out of it - but if you look closely enough, you know that in the end it's all about them and their personal agenda. A person who is capable of putting others in place for blame ahead of time, just in case someone figures out what is going on.

In that case no im really hopeless at it and wouldnot even think of going to all the trouble involved.
Im flat out working out what the hell is going on in reality - it would be way too much to have more than 1 reality happening simultaneously.

Obviously.

can you expand on your answer Nrau - what you are saying is not that obvious to me.

Well, autistic people are not handicapped. What makes you think they are NOT capable of something like that in the first place?

Sure every thing we do and don't do has an effect on the world around us.
I don't think that is the definition we are going for here.

hand·i·cap   /ˈhændiˌkæp/ Show Spelled [han-dee-kap] Show IPA noun, verb, hand·i·capped, hand·i·cap·ping.
noun
1. a race or other contest in which certain disadvantages or advantages of weight, distance, time, etc., are placed upon competitors to equalize their chances of winning.
2. the disadvantage or advantage itself.
3. any disadvantage that makes success more difficult: The main handicap of our business is lack of capital.
4. a physical or mental disability making participation in certain of the usual activities of daily living more difficult.

Considering we live in a NT majority world I would say that autism = handicapped.
Some of us may be able to manipulate others well - however since social activities pose challenges for autistics in an NT world I would bet that autistic people are not as good at it and are hence at a disadvantage.

Yup.....one wouldn't expect Aspies to have the social intelligence to be effective manipulators, but there appear to have been sightings. Quite the conundrum. How do they do it, if they can't read people's feelings and don't know the likely effects of their responses?

I suppose some of them could be NPD cases, consciously or unconsciously masquerading as Aspies. And some forms of manipulation don't look all that difficult.

When I was 37, I was minding a market stall for the co-operative I was in, and I noticed a lady looking at the wares.......she looked anxious, and flipped from one item to another and back several times in indecision. I realised I could intervene and quite likely influence her decision, just by coming over as cheerful, relaxed and confident, which was pretty much what I was feeling that day anyway. I hung back, and was glad I hadn't manipulated her, though I realiseed a better response might have been to try to cheer her out of her slight anxiety so she could make her own mind up, though even that would have likely encouraged her to buy our stuff.

It worries me when I influence another person, even if its not really manipulation, they may think it is, and if they come to grief through following my leadership (I think that's the first time in my life I've ever used the phrase "my leadership" ), then it'll all be my fault, and I'll really feel bad because I hate it when people lead me into misery. But if I were to cut that "do as you would be done by" mantra from my ethics and replace it with "Look after Number One," then the rest of it doesn't seem too difficult. Dale Carnegie wrote a few idiot's guides to charming the pants off people, "make him think it was his idea" etc., so if such methods don't make you reach for the sick bucket, I'm sure even an Aspie could turn their mind to the job of learning to manipulate.