IQ test at 8

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My daughter R. has concentration problems at school. She has an inclination to react impulsively- a few years ago she gave consistently the right answer, but pointed to the wrong multiple choice pictures. She has poor motor skills, and she doesn't sense it when she has her shoes on the wrong feet. She's bright, insightful, friendly. She isn't doing brilliantly at school but not disastrously either.

Her older sister is on the spectrum and R was recently assessed for autism too. R did terribly on the WISC-iii IQ test and the hospital recommended that she go to a school for children with learning disabilities.

I'm very worried that her intelligence won't be able to be seen because of her motorskills and poor spacial awareness. I think that she has a normal IQ but that something is preventing it to come to the fore. I've considered DCD, ADD and NLD- they all seem plausible in their own way. I am going to ask that she is assessed for something else.

Does anyone have any experience of being terrible at an early stage at school but improving markedly?
Does anyone recognise themselves in R's description?

I would be grateful for your comments.

My daughter did terribly on the IQ test for various reasons. She also did terribly academically in a mainstream school. Once she started in a special school, her work improved. The benefit of those schools is that with their very low teacher/student ratio, they can tailor the lessons to the specific skills and weaknesses of each child. They can find the teaching style that works best for that child and use it, as opposed to the standardization that is mandated in mainstream schools.

So a special school might actually help bring her skills to the fore.

That sounds good! The problem is that I don't know whether she will have the chance to move on to a regular school after that- or whether she will be stigmatised. I'm living in a land where I don't know the system well. And here they tend to make differentiations really early. It's as if they believe that people don't dramatically change or stay developing.

I took an IQ test when I was diagnosed with Asperger's when I was 9 years old. On the WCIS I scored an 84 (which is in the range of "borderline intellectual functioning"). I didn't have too much trouble with motor skills, although I wasn't very good at socializing. Sometimes, when I was little, I wouldn't really notice if my shoes were on the wrong feet. I think it takes time for some children to learn this; maybe she's "losing the forest in the trees" so to speak? Sometimes I miss things that most others wouldn't have missed. On the other hand, I notice things that most others may not. I was in the special needs program throughout my public schooling (including preschool). Most of the time I was in the regular classroom, but I had an IEP, and (later) a 504. I was terrible at math classes, and sometimes I'd fail to do my homework (mainly in elementary school). I wanted to do well, I just forgot about homework sometimes. I've gotten dramatically better at socializing over the years. If it counts as a dramatic improvement, I just graduated from a private liberal arts university with a BS in Psychology with honors, and a 4 year varsity letter in Track & Field. I'm also currently employed, and have held a few different jobs over the years. I got lots of help through out my life, especially from my teachers, parents, and family. I personally don't think people should be held back because of a simple IQ test, or any test in general. A special program might actually suit your daughter to give her a really good start. I'd say it's better to have too many services than to have too little. It also depends on the situation; some people may fare better in a regular classroom with an assistant. There are some programs (at least where I'm from) where the child could go to a special program for one or two periods of the day, and spend the rest of the day in regular classes. They have a program like that called WRAP (Waller Road Autism Program) in the Puyallup School District in WA State for individuals with High Functioning Autism and Asperger Syndrome. It's a specialized program designed to teach children with high functioning forms of autism to adapt to the neurotypical world (e.g. social life, anger/anxiety management, time management, how to get a job). It's very a unique program, and (I'd say) one of the first of its kind. It's a fairly new program that got launched only about 5 years ago. Also, if you haven't, you should read the book "Neurodiversity" , by Thomas Armstrong. It's one of my favorite books about recognizing the gifts that individuals with autism, dyslexia, ADD, anxiety, and depression (among others) can offer to society. It's an excellent read, and I hope that it could in some way help your current situation. Hope it helps,

Candace

Thanks for your reply. It's really helped me feel hopeful. I do want to help her as much as I can and I think that both you and Janissy may be right about the special schooling. I'm going to try to be less afraid. I'll try to get hold of the 'Neurodiversity' book too.
My daughters are going to begin a buddy programme where a young adult (buddy) spends a few hours a day with them. It's not really educational, but I think that it's a programme that will help them feel happier.
Well done, by the way, with your achievements!

It would really help a great deal if you were to tell us exactly wich "land" you actually live in. In the U.S. all public schools are obliged by law to accept your children in the general population classes, through use of an "IEP" (Individualized Education Plan).

How and what to do is highly dependent on exactly where you live, and what the laws are there.

I am an older Aspy (50s) with some poor motor control, some impulsiveness, and I often don't notice things that I should, or miss cues from others, amongst many other Aspy problems I have. However, at a young age, almost all children (NTs too) are like that, because they haven't yet fully developed their control of their bodies and minds. So this is actually part of normal at that age. The main "cure" for it is time. As kids grow up, they gain more control of their bodies and minds, until they hit puberty, and lose it again, due to hormonal changes. Later on, they finish growing up, and most of these symptoms fade away.

Although this is basically normal for all kids, some of us have been more severely challenged with these normal problems. Some of us outgrow it, and become "normal". Some of us have a worse case of it, and don't fully outgrow these problems. We are those who are on the Autism/Aspy spectrum, or who have other conditions.

On the bright side, although I still have these same problems I had as a child, some of them are not as bad now that I am older, so I have improved somewhat over time. I have noticed on the forum that this modification of symptoms with age seems to happen to most of us. It just takes longer for us, and we never become completely "normal". Not being normal is not automatically a bad thing. Look at all of the world's geniuses. Most of them haven't been normal, but they have done a lot for art, science, medicine, etc.

Taking your kids to doctors for diagnosis and treatment and getting them into the right school environment are great, but you can also help them right at home by helping them to find ways to work around their problems, and to find ways to cope with stress. People on the spectrum and with other mind problems usually have to deal with a lot of stress. Although sound is often a problem for us, pleasant music played at a very low volume is a good stress reliever. So is humor. It also helps to keep ones mind occupied with ones interests. These methods are soothing and distracting, and have helped me a lot over the years. Also, most kids have a lot of energy to burn off, so it is hard for them to sit through and pay attention to, boring school stuff. The best way to handle that is to have them exercise for a little while before class, to help them burn off some of that excess energy, so they won't be so antsy in class. Drugs should be a last resort, as they usually have unpleasant, and sometimes even dangerous, side effects. Besides, simply doping people just because they are having trouble sitting still and being quiet is wrong, and doesn't fix the problem. It just turns them into zombies. This was tried with me as a child, and I finally took myself off the meds without permission because I could tell they were bad for me. However, once my parents found out, they were okay with my decision, because they had not been thrilled with my being on the drugs, either. Please, please, do not dope your kids, except as a last resort!

It's tough being Aspy, but nobody can guarantee anyone an easy life. And remember, we on the spectrum are:

A Different Drummer

If a man does not keep pace with his companions,
Perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer.
Let him step to the music which he hears,
However measured or far away.

--Henry David Thoreau

I think you shouldn't be trusting an IQ test to tell you much about your daughter at all. I took an IQ test when I was a little older, and the scores were so scattered they had people scratching their heads in confusion.

Seems to me that a better indicator of how she is doing is her ability to learn practical things in daily life. How does she figure out a new computer game, design a piece of art, tell a story, or make a sandwich? How does she approach new things at school? How does she handle things that are difficult for her?

If she's got trouble with giving answers properly on that IQ test, I honestly wouldn't trust the results. It's common for autistic people to make the IQ tests go totally wacky. You can be behind on one thing, ahead on another. IQ tests are designed based on the assumption that you are on the usual developmental pathway--behind or ahead, maybe, but basically on the same track as everybody else. Well, for autism that's just not a valid assumption. You can get some useful information from the IQ sub-tests--like, the specific tasks; say your daughter does really badly on block arrangement, then that'd back up your statement that she's bad at visual-spatial stuff. But, from the overall score... not so much. You're comparing somebody with autism to the general population. That's apples and oranges. Doesn't work.

Thank you for your replies Questor and Callista. She hasn't been diagnosed with an autism spectrum stoornis. Her 10 year old sister D. is on the spectrum.

R. the 8 year old, has got something but I don't know what it is. I really like her. She's very considerate and humorous. She has friends. I think that it's her impulsiveness that actually helps in that respect. She doesn't cautiously consider things but is so spontaneous (and sort of pure) that (some) people warm to her.

Other people find her really irritating. She's the kind of kid who will keep reaching out to touch things in shops. She's often unkempt-she's a messy eater and gets food rests sticking around her mouth, her hair becomes wild easily. When she dances there's something angular and unsymmetrical about the way she moves. When I watch her during swiming lessons, she's the only one who doesn't seem to move instinctively in the water or be able to copy movements by observation. They have special floats on to stop the children sinking but she still can't hold herself in the water to allow herself to float. I see her trying her very very best.

She's very happy. I don't want to burden her with the thought that she might be different and need extra help. Right now I let her make a mess in the kitchen and make desserts and that sort of thing. I let her eat without cutlery. I think that these are reasons why she feels at ease with her life
at the moment. I do my best not to get stressed out by those sorts of things.

I'm slowly starting to wonder if she might be happier in a school with a smaller pupil to teacher ratio. But on the other hand, I do have a fear that those places might be dumping grounds for the weaker in society- that they will be merely baby-sitted there.

I live in the Netherlands. I'm very afraid of giving the report to R's school in case they decide that she's too much trouble to keep her there.
I have a meeting at the hospital in about 10 days. I'll let you know how it goes. All of your replies have helped me feel calmer.

Thank you too to Mr Xxx. Sorry that I overlooked your name!! !

There has been some discussion on how effective the standard IQ test is in ASD. Basically, it may not be a good measure of a childs actual intelligence because of the testing methods. I know, in my daughters case, she has a learning disability which makes writing quite difficult. She needs alternative testing strategies to see if she has learned and retained knowledge - which she does - quite well. Basically, make sure they have accounted for all of your daughters difficulties and then ask them if any of those difficulties would affect her ability to take the standardized test.

My concern is that if they base your daughters educational program on a possibly flawed IQ test, she may go under challenged intellectually which can cause a whole other host of other concerns. I'm not suggesting the testing is wrong - just that it is worth looking into to make sure she is not being short changed and thus under served.