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johnnydangerous
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11 Nov 2011, 3:06 pm

My understanding of NT social hierarchies is that if an NT meets another NT who is "cool" they will want to "aquire" that person as a friend, even if they don't particularly LIKE that NT person who is "cool".

At the same time, lets say an NT meets a person who they ACTUALLY LIKE. But this person does not have many friends, and is not on the "social scene". Even though the NT likes this person, the NT will want to distance themselves away from him/her because he/she "is not cool to be seen with" and thus, will hurt the NTs "status".

This is why I dislike NTs so much, and people in general. I can't stand the way this worthless society operates. People are SO F.U.C.K.I.N.G PHONY. How do you live your life like that? Wow. I may not be "cool" socially but at least I'm honest with myself, and at least I don't decide who I hang with based on "how will this affect me socially" and "what would others think of him/her?".

I decide who I want to hang with based on WHAT I THINK OF THEM. Not what OTHERS will think of ME if I hang with HIM/HER.

This is where NTs fail. This is why NTs are so g0damn pathetic.

EDIT: And you wanna know what's hysterical? The "cool" NT is most likely FAKING who he is. So you have a fake NT, and on the other end, another fake NT wanting to make friends with him/her. So EVERYTHING NTs do is pretty much FAKE, and to create an ILLUSION of some kind of "social coolness". This is how NTs spend their lives. Yet people with AS are the ones with "the problem".



Robdemanc
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11 Nov 2011, 3:19 pm

I know what you mean. NT's are so stupid in how they acquire their so called 'friends'. This may make you laugh.

A few years back I met some people through work, I am AS and was just being myself, not bothering with anyone. But one guy seemed to befriend me, I didn't know why. So I was just being friendly back. Then more people began to be friendly with me, acting like I was brilliant or something, wanting to know lots about me. I hung with them for a while but got bored with them.
Anyway lots of people in the place seemed to like me and I heard that the initial guy befriended me because he thought I was really cool and wanted to associate with me, and all his other friends followed suit.

But because I did not know what was going on and I mentioned something about one thing the initial guy said about one of his colleagues, they all fell out and didn't speak to each other.....oooops

I didn't even know it was going on. They are like children, they think they are sophisticated in their socialising but really they are like kids in high school and do not grow up.



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11 Nov 2011, 3:29 pm

Reminds me of this thread from a while back on herd behavior: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt178730.html

Also reminds me of a saying that is drilled into I guess second-graders: What's right isn't always popular, and what's popular isn't always right. I always assumed this meant morally right but now I'm thinking it refers to what-you'd-think-would-be-obvious factual correctness/reality also.



Taylor1002
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11 Nov 2011, 3:46 pm

I don't understand why anyone would want to be popular, I can't think of anything good about it. Why won't they just be themselves and have friends who they like instead of doing so many weird things to be popular?



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11 Nov 2011, 3:48 pm

I actually SHIED AWAY from the "cool" kids in high school where such behavior existed, because I associated that with smoking, drinking, doing drugs and vandalizing. I have never once considered what others would think of me being around a particular person, going purely by whether I actually LIKED the person. Isn't that how social hierarchies are SUPPOSED to work? At least in adulthood?

So I might lose "status" by making friends with an unpopular person. Status with whom? Jack***es. Not everyone is like that, and I refuse to play that game!!


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WilliamTheConqueror
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11 Nov 2011, 4:10 pm

johnnydangerous wrote:
EDIT: And you wanna know what's hysterical? The "cool" NT is most likely FAKING who he is. So you have a fake NT, and on the other end, another fake NT wanting to make friends with him/her. So EVERYTHING NTs do is pretty much FAKE, and to create an ILLUSION of some kind of "social coolness". This is how NTs spend their lives. Yet people with AS are the ones with "the problem".


I think you’re giving these people more credit than they deserve by calling them fake. Calling someone ‘fake’ implies there is a real person behind the mask that you see. But, from my experience of having talked to people, and have them ‘open up’ to me, I can reasonably conclude that there really isn’t a ‘person behind the mask’. It seems to me that it’s more like a bundle of masks holding each other in place, and masks wearing masks. If you ever decide to remove the masks, don’t expect finding a face. I have conquered many such people.



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11 Nov 2011, 4:20 pm

Oh brother. :roll:

This again.

Somebody mentioned herd behavior. Every time this comes up I see the same kind of herd behavior here. We're obviously not immune to it either.

How's about we just give all the NT's a heapin' helpin' of the same kind of stereotyping we accuse them of heaping on us?

NT's aren't any more fake than we are. If anything, they are much less so. We do spend most of our time "faking" skills we aren't that good at, don't we?

People are just people for gosh sakes. Let 'em be who they are. Fake or not. It's all perception anyway, which we're not all that great at to begin with. Why trust our own perceptions of others? What makes ours more valid than anyone else's?

Don't we have better things to do?


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matt
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11 Nov 2011, 6:01 pm

I don't think it's accurate to describe herd behavior as "fake". I think it's more superficial than fake.



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11 Nov 2011, 6:10 pm

You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours

If you are not with me, you are against me

Showing some teeth and smiling are strangely associated

Upon meeting, the brain works at lightning speed to see any favours that may be forthcoming

Are you in my gang?

Friend or foe?



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11 Nov 2011, 7:15 pm

Ugh. I'm sorry, but I need to say something about this.

I find it really irriating how people on the spectrum have developed assumptions, whether through bad experiences or whatever else, that every NT is going to act the same. I know from personal experience, and as someone who has many NT friends, that not all NTs are as hierarchal and unaccepting as the OP suggests.

Yes, there are groups of NTs who were raised to be very superficial and therefore will only accept people who meet certain standards of status. It does not mean, however, that everyone is going to be like this. There are plenty of accepting people in this world, and by bashing all NTs, you aren't really acknowledging the ones who will accept you.

I know that sometimes it is hard to see beyond the "popular kids". Look for the shy ones, the nerdy ones, and the average ones. There are more of those people than you realize.


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11 Nov 2011, 7:21 pm

Class: A person's economic position in a society. Weber differs from Marx in that he does not see this as the supreme factor in stratification. Weber noted how managers of corporations or industries control firms they do not own; Marx would have placed such a person in the proletariat.
Status: A person's prestige, social honor, or popularity in a society. Weber noted that political power was not rooted in capital value solely, but also in one's individual status. Poets or saints, for example, can possess immense influence on society with often little economic worth.
Power: A person's ability to get their way despite the resistance of others. For example, individuals in state jobs, such as an employee of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, or a member of the United States Congress, may hold little property or status but they still hold immense power.



MrXxx
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11 Nov 2011, 7:24 pm

anneurysm wrote:
Ugh. I'm sorry, but I need to say something about this.

I find it really irriating how people on the spectrum have developed assumptions, whether through bad experiences or whatever else, that every NT is going to act the same. I know from personal experience, and as someone who has many NT friends, that not all NTs are as hierarchal and unaccepting as the OP suggests.

Yes, there are groups of NTs who were raised to be very superficial and therefore will only accept people who meet certain standards of status. It does not mean, however, that everyone is going to be like this. There are plenty of accepting people in this world, and by bashing all NTs, you aren't really acknowledging the ones who will accept you.

I know that sometimes it is hard to see beyond the "popular kids". Look for the shy ones, the nerdy ones, and the average ones. There are more of those people than you realize.


Right on. The ones who don't stand out are in the majority. It's the obnoxious and flamboyant (not the same btw) that do. I guess it shouldn't surprise too much that assumptions about all NT's are often based only on them solely for that reason. They are the ones we all notice the most because they do everything in their power to be noticed. But they are not fair representatives, and should not be used to form opinions about all, even those that are not as noticeable. NT's as a whole are neither flamboyant, nor obnoxious. One just has to have one's antennae up and tuned to those that are not. If you do, you'll notice a lot more of them that are not like this at all.


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matt
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11 Nov 2011, 8:16 pm

anneurysm wrote:
Ugh. I'm sorry, but I need to say something about this.

I find it really irriating how people on the spectrum have developed assumptions, whether through bad experiences or whatever else, that every NT is going to act the same. I know from personal experience, and as someone who has many NT friends, that not all NTs are as hierarchal and unaccepting as the OP suggests.

Yes, there are groups of NTs who were raised to be very superficial and therefore will only accept people who meet certain standards of status. It does not mean, however, that everyone is going to be like this. There are plenty of accepting people in this world, and by bashing all NTs, you aren't really acknowledging the ones who will accept you.

I know that sometimes it is hard to see beyond the "popular kids". Look for the shy ones, the nerdy ones, and the average ones. There are more of those people than you realize.
When I said that the herd mentality seems superficial, I wasn't making any reference to any actions toward me. I wasn't referring to creating an artificial misrepresentation of themselves specifically to fit in.

I misrepresent myself more than I think that others do, because if I didn't I wouldn't be trying to interact with them at all, and that would make functioning even more difficult. It's not that I blatantly lie, but the fact that when interacting I spend a significant amount of time trying to act in a way that I think is appropriate is misrepresenting what I would normally do.

When I said that herd mentality seems superficial I meant that they seem to avoid things which are complicated or required significant consideration. I think that they lie about things which are relatively minor, because if they didn't lie they would spend a significant amount of time trying to explain things specifically. It is easier to let someone believe that something incorrectly than it is to make them understand it well. Lack of detailed explanation makes understanding superficial. They also seem to want to know facts, but don't seem to spend much time trying to understand the reasoning behind those facts. That's also superficial.



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11 Nov 2011, 9:04 pm

johnnydangerous wrote:
My understanding of NT social hierarchies is that if an NT meets another NT who is "cool" they will want to "aquire" that person as a friend, even if they don't particularly LIKE that NT person who is "cool".

At the same time, lets say an NT meets a person who they ACTUALLY LIKE. But this person does not have many friends, and is not on the "social scene". Even though the NT likes this person, the NT will want to distance themselves away from him/her because he/she "is not cool to be seen with" and thus, will hurt the NTs "status".

This is why I dislike NTs so much, and people in general. I can't stand the way this worthless society operates. People are SO F.U.C.K.I.N.G PHONY. How do you live your life like that? Wow. I may not be "cool" socially but at least I'm honest with myself, and at least I don't decide who I hang with based on "how will this affect me socially" and "what would others think of him/her?".

I decide who I want to hang with based on WHAT I THINK OF THEM. Not what OTHERS will think of ME if I hang with HIM/HER.

This is where NTs fail. This is why NTs are so g0damn pathetic.

EDIT: And you wanna know what's hysterical? The "cool" NT is most likely FAKING who he is. So you have a fake NT, and on the other end, another fake NT wanting to make friends with him/her. So EVERYTHING NTs do is pretty much FAKE, and to create an ILLUSION of some kind of "social coolness". This is how NTs spend their lives. Yet people with AS are the ones with "the problem".


Yup, you nailed it on the head... Don't forget, usually the higher up the social hierarchy you go, the dumber the people get. That, and whoever's in the highest position is clearly incapable of making mistakes or saying anything stupid EVER. Should you point out any flaw in anything they said(even if they said 1+1 = 6 or something ridiculously obvious and stupid), you better put on something fire retardant because a flame war will ensue that puts world war 1, world war 2, and vietnam COMBINED all to shame.



Kaelynn
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12 Nov 2011, 2:40 am

I agree. How is it us that has the problem?



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12 Nov 2011, 5:42 am

Not all NT's may behave superficially but the social structure they create is based on superficial assumptions about each other. So whether an NT behaves like that or not, they still exist in that structure and it is their creation, not ours.

And why don't all the 'non superficial' NT's take over the social structure and make all the juvenile ones take a back seat?