Would you rather be autistic or have BPD?

Page 4 of 4 [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

24 Dec 2011, 8:38 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Ok well it does get rather complex........but yeah from my understanding though ADHD is not really a behavioral problem as it does not have anything to do with intentional behavior. Not being able to sit still because of the way your brain works for instance is not really behavior at least not in my opinion because I would think behavior has to be based on something. like if someone makes me angry so I yell at them, or I get bored of something an intentionally move on to a different activity.....but having an issue with hyperactivity does not seem behavioral to me for instance.


ADHD isn't strictly about hyperactivity, and it was believed to be a behavioral disorder for a long time. There are people who still believe it's behavioral, when it's more like the level of cognition just below behavior and action.

In fact, it tends to impact every part of one's life and tends to have a more severe impact than the majority of mental disorders treated on an outpatient basis. One of the leading researchers on ADHD describes it as "you can know what to do, but you can't always do what you know." If something makes it extremely difficult for you to focus on difficult or unpleasant or boring tasks, or even remember to do them, doesn't this impact your behavior? Others may perceive you as not caring about those things when the truth is they barely stick in your mind whether you want them to or not. It is not intentional, but treated as intentional.

I did not say it was strictly about hyperactivity, I was just using that symptom as an example I was not trying to claim that is the main symptom of ADHD. And Its certainly not a behavioral disorder in my opinion.

Quote:
I just cannot really see how BPD would fit under the catagory of mood disorders, I don't see what is wrong with having it classified as a personality disorder.


Because the entire category of "personality disorder" is dodgy as hell and is treated as a junk category where people dumped are considered to be untreatable, non-compliant messes.


Well that is not the picture I got when I was taking abnormal psychology and we discussed personality disorders.....in the psychology feild it is hardly treated as a junk catagory where people are dumped and considered untreatable. Its just very difficult to treat a lot of personality disorders and they aren't usually curable that is not to say there is not therapy or treatments that help. But yeah the way personality disorders where presented in that class seemed quite valid.


_________________
We won't go back.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

24 Dec 2011, 8:41 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well how many cases of BPD have you heard of where the person with it is cured? because from what i learned in psychology....personality disorders are very hard to treat because they are so intertwined with the individuals personality.


This is dogma that has persisted since Freud's time and has barely been challenged. Both that they are not really treatable or curable and that they really are related to an individual's personality and not by any kind of neurological variations, although such variations have been observed in research, and genetic correlations have been observed.

Oh, and Girl, Interrupted is a movie based on an autobiographical book by a woman who was sent to an institution because she tried to kill herself and was diagnosed with BPD. When she was released, apparently she was considered to be "cured."



That is hardly what I was trying to say.......I was only saying personality disorders are hard to treat and even more difficult to cure, kind of like autism. Last I checked autism is not curable and a lot of times people with it get offended when people suggest there should be a cure. Though Autism is usually how people are born and personality disorders develop later on but as a rule the personality disorder becomes just as much a part of a person as autism does from my understanding.


_________________
We won't go back.


Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

24 Dec 2011, 9:09 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I did not say it was strictly about hyperactivity, I was just using that symptom as an example I was not trying to claim that is the main symptom of ADHD. And Its certainly not a behavioral disorder in my opinion.


I didn't say it was a behavioral disorder, but it very much impacts behavior. My point is that it's in the framing. If you describe something as working a particular way, it will be perceived as working in that particular way until that framing is questioned, challenged, and debunked. In BPD, impulsiveness is a personality trait that leads to self-destructive behavior, whereas in ADHD, impulsiveness is not a part of your personality but an element of your neurology that makes it very easy to do something without consciously deciding to do so. Often, that something is self-destructive.

Quote:
Well that is not the picture I got when I was taking abnormal psychology and we discussed personality disorders.....in the psychology feild it is hardly treated as a junk catagory where people are dumped and considered untreatable. Its just very difficult to treat a lot of personality disorders and they aren't usually curable that is not to say there is not therapy or treatments that help. But yeah the way personality disorders where presented in that class seemed quite valid.


Here's a paper on BPD specifically that critiques how clients diagnosed with BPD are treated by professionals:

http://www.psybc.com/pdfs/library/What_ ... Anyway.pdf

That certainly doesn't seem to describe people who largely respect and want to help people who have BPD.

Here's an article on psychopathy:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 120711.php

And I recently had a discussion with a psychiatrist - a professional who's been a professional for decades - who outright described patients diagnosed with particular personality disorders as "evil."

Also, as one person who is studying to become a therapist told me, a personality disorder diagnosis can be a therapeutic death sentence. Just having one can mean being characterized as non-compliant automatically, whatever one's behavior, and can make it difficult to receive treatment. They can mean (as with autism, and many other things) not being able to get insurance because of preexisting conditions. Having one of these diagnoses can very well mean being marginalized badly in terms of medical and mental health care.

Sweetleaf wrote:
That is hardly what I was trying to say.......I was only saying personality disorders are hard to treat and even more difficult to cure, kind of like autism. Last I checked autism is not curable and a lot of times people with it get offended when people suggest there should be a cure. Though Autism is usually how people are born and personality disorders develop later on but as a rule the personality disorder becomes just as much a part of a person as autism does from my understanding.


The difference being is that unlike autism that the framework that personality disorders exist under was largely established in Freud's time and hasn't really improved in terms of understanding. I am not arguing whether they should or should not be cured, but that treatment is possible, and that finding more useful treatment modalities doesn't seem to be much of a priority.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

24 Dec 2011, 9:34 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I did not say it was strictly about hyperactivity, I was just using that symptom as an example I was not trying to claim that is the main symptom of ADHD. And Its certainly not a behavioral disorder in my opinion.


I didn't say it was a behavioral disorder, but it very much impacts behavior. My point is that it's in the framing. If you describe something as working a particular way, it will be perceived as working in that particular way until that framing is questioned, challenged, and debunked. In BPD, impulsiveness is a personality trait that leads to self-destructive behavior, whereas in ADHD, impulsiveness is not a part of your personality but an element of your neurology that makes it very easy to do something without consciously deciding to do so. Often, that something is self-destructive.

Quote:
Well that is not the picture I got when I was taking abnormal psychology and we discussed personality disorders.....in the psychology feild it is hardly treated as a junk catagory where people are dumped and considered untreatable. Its just very difficult to treat a lot of personality disorders and they aren't usually curable that is not to say there is not therapy or treatments that help. But yeah the way personality disorders where presented in that class seemed quite valid.


Here's a paper on BPD specifically that critiques how clients diagnosed with BPD are treated by professionals:

http://www.psybc.com/pdfs/library/What_ ... Anyway.pdf

That certainly doesn't seem to describe people who largely respect and want to help people who have BPD.

Here's an article on psychopathy:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 120711.php

And I recently had a discussion with a psychiatrist - a professional who's been a professional for decades - who outright described patients diagnosed with particular personality disorders as "evil."

Also, as one person who is studying to become a therapist told me, a personality disorder diagnosis can be a therapeutic death sentence. Just having one can mean being characterized as non-compliant automatically, whatever one's behavior, and can make it difficult to receive treatment. They can mean (as with autism, and many other things) not being able to get insurance because of preexisting conditions. Having one of these diagnoses can very well mean being marginalized badly in terms of medical and mental health care.

Sweetleaf wrote:
That is hardly what I was trying to say.......I was only saying personality disorders are hard to treat and even more difficult to cure, kind of like autism. Last I checked autism is not curable and a lot of times people with it get offended when people suggest there should be a cure. Though Autism is usually how people are born and personality disorders develop later on but as a rule the personality disorder becomes just as much a part of a person as autism does from my understanding.


The difference being is that unlike autism that the framework that personality disorders exist under was largely established in Freud's time and hasn't really improved in terms of understanding. I am not arguing whether they should or should not be cured, but that treatment is possible, and that finding more useful treatment modalities doesn't seem to be much of a priority.


Alright well it would seem we are on the same page about ADHD than. Also some of the issues with how people with this disorder are treated was brought up in the class and not as a good thing to support. The professor teaching the class was actually quite open about some of the issues in the psychology feild.......such as stigma related to certain disorders like BPD. So there certainly are issues like that, but they don't reflect the opinions of everyone in the psychology feild. But other then that a lot of times people with personality disorders do not seek treatment for the personality disorder if they do seek treatment its usually for a comorbid disorder.....so that also makes it hard to treat and I imagine psychiatrists and psychologists with the attitude that people with a personality disorder are 'evil' or cannot be helped probably does not help either.

Also I am not so sure personality disorders have anything to do with Freud, but I will look into that I guess.....I just was not aware they had gotten that far during his time. But you are right there is treatment that can help, but maybe none that can cure.


_________________
We won't go back.


Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

24 Dec 2011, 9:42 pm

I didn't mean Freud did the personality disorder stuff (he did some, I think) and the framework has been pretty static and is fairly old.

And I'm glad to hear your instructor said those things.



joku_muko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 710
Location: Oregon

25 Dec 2011, 12:03 pm

My mom is BPD. BPD was one of many things I was diagnosed with on my way to AS. I'd be good with neither.



Jetfox
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,620
Location: the black hole

25 Dec 2011, 12:21 pm

well i'd rather not have a mental handicap at all, but i've never heard bpd associated with me ever, just AS.

heck never heard of bpd till i came here, i thought it meant bipolar disorder, and one of my aunts has that. so i could possibly have a touch of bipolar.

but i know i have no choice in who i am so i accept it the best i can.

i used to hate mental illness back when i was young but i think finding out i was one myself has given me an understanding of why hating someone because of how they were born is wrong. so i guess being diagnosed opened my eyes in a way.

sorry if i seem offensive, not trying to be, i have a hard time wording things at times. ^^;


_________________
"It's the song of destruction a requiem of the end" jr in xenosaga III