Are autistics part Neanderthal?

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That is a fictional short story presented in the back of a nature magazine from 2008. It's somewhat satirical in nature; obviously the story centers around a fictional research character described as having stereotypical traits associated with Aspergers. I wouldn't be surprised if the author got the idea for the fictional story from reading about the "neanderthal theory of autism" on the internet.

Jeff Hecht, the author of the story, who is a science fiction writer, presents the short story as one of his many works of fiction on his website.

http://www.jeffhecht.com/fiction.html



The fictional story's premise is not logical in suggesting that modern culture selects against intelligence and mathematical skills. But the premise doesn't have to be logical because it is fictional story and the guy writing it is not a scientist.

Mathematical and reading skills measured in traditional IQ tests, are cultural byproducts. IQ tests continue to be revised with higher standards in Western Society, because of cultural factors. Neither mathematics or reading would exist without modern culture and the result of several thousand years of recorded collective intelligence.

At this point in time, there is no one in the field of genetics that has determined any specific function for the 1 to 6% remnants of archaic DNA (including Neanderthal) identified in most of the world's population.

The Barrel chest trait is considered normal in stocky individuals along with some individuals form higher altitude environments both in Europe and South America, theorized as an adaptation to lower levels of oxygen.

There could be a correlation of barrel chests and archaic ancestory, as well as many other traits seen in modern man, but specifics are not known at this point. Human beings have been measured as having different levels of archaic DNA, on every continent on earth. The origin of that archaic DNA is still not clear in all cases, particularly archaic DNA measured in Sub Saharan Africans.

A small percentage of mice and other animals have autistic like traits similar to those seen in human beings; loosely correlated to similar genetics as well.

Since both Mice and Men have a common rodent ancestor about 75 million years ago, there could very well be similarities in genetics as there are many other similarities in disorders and genetics between mice and men. If Neanderthals and Denisovans happen to share some of the same similar genetic material, it's not really to much more relevant whether we share similar genetic material with a neanderthal or a mouse; some animal kingdom members are functionally impaired by autistic like traits whether they are human or mice.

Humans are the only animals that have autism, because it is a disorder of social communication specific to human beings, defined by human beings.

If there was a DSM classification for neanderthals, for autism, it would likely be much different than what it is today, considering the definition of autism changes every few decades, and neanderthals had no written language provided by collective intelligence, to record the social/communication impairments of neanderthals in those days.

It is hard enough to define what Autism is today, with several million live individuals to select from and study on a real time basis, by individuals who are experts in the field, with decades of education, some of whom are diagnosed with autism themselves, such as the research group associated with Lauren Mottren and Michelle Dawson.

One day it is very possible that science will get a better handle on what causes symptoms of autism such as the loss of words in regressive autism, among those with abnormal brain growth because a common structural difference has been identified.

In general, in studying autistic like traits, connecting the dots with neanderthals, is not as useful as connecting the dots with mice, because there are no living specimens to work with.

Some dots have been loosely linked with archaic neanderthal dna and autism, but they are no more significant than similar associations linked with alcoholism.

Some rats have been shown to become more easily addicted or are more resilient to addiction to alcohol and similar genes in humans have been implicated as associated. We can study the behavior of rats, but we can't study the behavior of Neanderthals, only hypothesize on what that behavior might have been like, from the archaelogical record.

Considering Humans and mice display similar behaviors, some even with autistic like behaviors, it is safe to suggest that some neanderthals may have displayed these autistic like behaviors as well. But, it's not safe to suggest that autistic like behaviors started with Neanderthals unless they bred with mice.

We know more about mouse behavior than we are ever going to know about archaic Neanderthal behavior, even if we clone a neanderthal, because even if we were able to do so, we could not put a Neanderthal in the same archaic cultural environment.

Cultural environments are fluid human constructs; they can't be cloned. They are very much a part of what determines how a brain is going to function, as well as behavior, from the time of conception to death. Autism rates among Somalians born in Sweden, the US, as well as among the Amish, is evidence that the environment of culture and possibly geography, play a role in what is observed and defined today, across cultures and changing diagnostic criteria, as Autism Spectrum Disorders.

Only non-AS are caveman like.....their brain that is lol

I wasn't aware that the article was a work of fiction. Jeff Hecht has may not realize what he came up with is less fictional than it may appear to some.



Really? Why have human brains been shrinking since Cro-magnon man? Why pathologize intelligence with autism spectrum "conditions."



They are too busy pathologizing. The politically correct "theory" regarding the number of human races is one. The agenda is not to end racism but rather perpetrate it. The theory permits, perhaps even damands, that variation be understood as deviation from the norm. "Autism research" is scientific racism. It is a perseveration in an attempt to protect the boundaries of an imaginary race that does not exist but is rather a hybrid containing the "right" H.s.s.-H.s.n. mix. Too much H.s.s. and you are probably a paranoid schizophrenic or something, too little, autistic. Under politically correct "theory" autistics, homosexuals, African-Americans, ad nauseam, are deviant variants, or arrested forms of the highest realization of the human race.

In the fourth reich, organizations that engage in eugenics and race hygiene have "family" or "autism" in their names.

The point on mathematics and intelligence was brought up in the short story, as positive correlates with Neanderthal DNA. Mathematics and the elements of traditional IQ tests that are measured are a result of culture, not inherent intelligence. The type of intelligence required to live in the wild, is not the same type of intelligence developed in modern western cultures that comes as a result of 12 to 18 years of formal education to learn cultural abtractions developed over thousands of years from recorded collective intelligence.

Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon man were feral humans beings. What we have now for the most part are domesticated human beings.

When animals, including human beings are domesticated bodies and heads become de-masculinized, and less robust. Bigger brains are required to control more robusts bodies. The size of a brain and the intelligence measured in standard IQ tests are not directly related to the size of one's brain. Genius has been measured among individuals in the general population with brain sizes from 1100cc to 2200cc in modern man, per examples of Anatole France and Lord Byron.

The only correlation of bigger brain sizes in ASD's has been recorded among children with regressive autism, per abnormal brain growth associated with severely disabling symptoms of social communication. Other autistics measured are within normal variation of brain development, per overall brain size.

Neither greater skills in mathematics or higher levels of intelligence are associated with ASD's than per the general population. A stereotype that is propagated at times, but solidly refuted by statistics as they exist per ASD's. In fact symptoms of non-verbal learning disorder are common among individuals with Aspergers. Many individuals that have the condition of Aspergers have strong verbal abilities and difficulties with mathematics.

The author's presentation of the short story relies on cultural stereotypes to engage readers throughout the general population whose common understanding of aspergers is propagated through limited stereotypes presented in the general media, such as those that attempt to diagnosis and/or present individuals as such recognized in media, like Gates, Zuckerberg, and Sheldon and his friends from the Big Bang theory.

At this point in science1 to 6% archaic DNA in modern humans beings is meaningless per function whether it is 1 percent or 6 percent. That has nothing to do with political correctness. Science does not currently have the tools to determine functionality, if any, related to the percentages of archaic DNA measured in human beings.

RDOS has attempted to find a correlation with the percentages of archaic DNA estimated in the general population with the 23andme organization's estimates of archaic DNA and what he measures as neurodiversity traits in his Aspie Quiz and he reports he has found no correlation. That shouldn't be any big suprise, since there may never be any significant functionality, determined through science, associated with archaic DNA in modern human beings.

It is politically correct that autism spectrum disorders, as defined in modern culture, impair functionality in human beings per social/communication and RRB's that together, overall, limit human beings in everyday life functioning. Beyond these impairments and disorders are similar traits that move well out into the population that do no not normally result in significant overall impairments in life functioning.

Some of these folks are referred to as part of the broader autism phenotype, shy, introverts, research scientists, engineers, accountants, computer programmers, auto mechanics, Gates, Sheldon, Zuckerberg, the list goes on and on. For the most part these individuals generally have strong abilities in systemization. However, there are also individuals referred to as novelists, painters, and musicians that may not have notably strong systemization abilities.

It is neither politically correct to identify african americans or homosexuals as individuals that are inherently deviant per overall functionality in life, as that relates to skin color or sexual orientation. There is a spectrum of skin color in the human race, just as there is a spectrum of gender and sexual orientation that is neither fully white, black, masculine, feminine, gay or lesbian; the same as one finds in species in the rest of the animal kingdom.

Modern laws allow individuals the right to selective abortion. That has little to do with eugenics. A person with no determined genetic flaws is as likely or potentially more likely to engage in selective abortion as a person with determined genetic flaws. It is dependent on one's personal decisions that may have nothing to do with inherent traits.

While there are some for-profit organizations engaged in developing pre-natal and post-natal screening tests to estimate percentage chances of developing autism, there are no charitable organizations with the name autism in the organization attempting to develop a pre-natal genetic test for autism that some may use to make a decision on selective abortion.

However, that decision is already influenced through normal genetic counseling when there are close family members whom have the condition, particularly when one already has an autistic child, providing the statistical probabilities and even recommending that a male foetus potentially be aborted rather than a female foetus because of the greater odds that a male foetus will develop autism, if their is a determined family genetic propensity toward autism.

However this is not a form of organized forced Eugenics and is not worthy of comparison to the third reicht, it is up to the individual as to whatever a person's decision is regarding selective abortion; the state does not force it.

Population control is enforced in China, and males are preferred over females, both through legal abortion, illegal abortion, and even infanticide, but these practices, generally, are not of benefit in increasing the perceived genetic quality of the population, they relate instead to basic subsistence needs, and cultural preferences.

Both modern medicine and western societies provide the accommodations necessary for survival for those that are born with inherent disabilities and acquire them through life, for continued survival and the potential to reproduce.

In the natural world, in the animal kingdom, eugenics are practiced on a daily basis, per animals born disabled, instinctively for survival purposes, the same as was commonly practiced among human beings, before culture developed the potential of accommodations for survival.

Selective abortion provides a more humane process for this instinctive aspect of animal nature, but human beings take care of the disabled and disadvantaged better than any other species, because they have the tools for accommodation developed through collective intelligence to do so through culture.

It is extremely unlikely that a neanderthal child with a similiar form of regressive autism would have survived. We live far from any fourth reicht in modern culture, it is almost a polar opposite, that provides benefits for those both with genetic anomalies and developed disabilities to survive and even fulfill their potentials in life.

If an organization like Autism Speaks, finds the cause of abnormal brain growth in regressive autism, through research and a way to temper it or prevent it, it is a humane and civilized approach to provide a potential of fulfillment in life for those that might otherwise be severely disabled in life. Far from selective abortion, that provides no potential for life at all.

Failing societies/cultures are attempting to move away from accommodations that allow the disabled and disadvantaged to survive in society; but that is the natural ebb and flow of success or failure among human beings when they get together in large groups and attempt to provide a civilized way of life, dependent on a myriad of factors.

The third reicht was an example of the failing health of a culture/society, that the rest of humankind quickly extinguished. A global economy is making a civilized way of life more complicated, and more equitable across the globe. It is limited, though, by the individual weaknesses in cooperation, common among all human beings. Amplified per example of the failed third reicht.

Cultural developments have come a long way from our feral neanderthal ancestors in how we are able to accommodate each others weaknesses and disadvantages. Overall modern domesticated human beings, do a good job of it, through modern cultural accommodations, compared to the rest of the feral animal kingdom.

True.



To the point of causing, or allowing others to cause problems -- blind obedience, etc.



No doubt we do not need brains as large in order to have the same level of intelligence. Still, I think that in developing collective intelligence we've sacrificed too much individual intelligence.



The atypical intelligence of autistics is probably not sufficiently measured. Besides, real, practical creativity is autistic. Where do most inventions occur? By whom? In Africa and South Asia no doubt it is a rare event.



Very easy and expensive. Get random samples of say, 3,000 individuals and 3,000 inventors. Compare the levels of archaic DNA in the two groups. My guess is that you'll get a result you can't publish in peer review journals.



Not what I've heard -- that results are inconclusive. the 23andme test is not quite good enough.



Depends on who you ask. Even in the federal government, probably even the current administration, racism as it is commonly misunderstood is alive and well. I've heard of a researcher employed by the Bush administration (don't know if he is still in the government) who believes Africans have genes for violence -- or something like that. Certainly the most if not all of the entire neurotypical population has genes for group-on-group violence, but that is another story.



In Fourth Reich America there are plenty of people and organizations trying to change this -- like getting people on welfare on Depo-Provera for starters.



Race hygiene.



Wishful thinking that this time is different.



There will be plenty of pressure if there isn't already -- just a technicality.



Population control can be corrupted.



Or pretend to.



So we should let the politically powerful who have no idea how the other 99% lives play God?



The humane approach is to find out how autistics learn and could perform tasks and reform the system so it works for everyone.



A global economy is making the entire world like corporatist 1930s Germany and 2010s America. It is easier to create a corporation that has a broken business model and use finance or government contracts and subsidies to loot and steal than to make honest money.



Not nearly good enough. We need to be better than feral animals. Feral animals do not have nuclear weapons.

Human beings for the most part depend on culture now, as domesticated animals, in a similiar manner as a domesticated cat depends on human culture for survival. For the most part, humans have lost the robust physical characteristics that allow a species to survive in the wild, as well as other domesticated animals.

I have a feral cat and a domesticated cat, living by one's wit, in a capricious world, is quite a bit different than living within a cultural structure. The feral cat can run circles around the domesticated cat per the type of intelligence required for survival. But he would not last long in compeitition with a species of wild cat that has no history of domestication.

This is the problem with attempting to suggest that the type of intelligence that archaic man had was inferior to modern domesticated man. And it is also the same problem in attempting to suggest that the type of creativity possessed by south asians and subsarahan africans who do not possess the same advantages of collective intelligence, are not capable of the same levels of innovation and/or creativity, because they may have different archaic ancestory.

One is not going to find as many cultural inventions, where there is not the same level of collective recorded intelligence, educational opportunities, and economic conditions for basic subsistence, nor are they going to find the same IQ from tests generated from other cultures with those advantages, even among ethnic populations that are economically disadvantaged, within developed countries, through a lower potential for financial inheritance and advantage.

However, modern humans across the globe adapt at similar levels of excellence when provided similar levels of advantage. We don't have a half Subsarahan President in the US, whose father graduated from Harvard as a full blooded Subsarahan African, because of a disadvantage in Subsarahan genetics; natural eugenics play a larger role in Subsarahan African countries where individuals face a much harsher environment for survival. One cannot discount the intelligence required for day to day innovation to survive when resources are scarce. It may not present groundbreaking inventions, but it results in the only result that counts in the long run, survival.

There really is no evidence of advantage of Cro-Magnon man over Neanderthal man, other than bodies adapted to different environments. But, it is a huge advantage if one can physically survive the environment ones body is more adapted to. Modern culture takes much of this element out of the equation with climate control, but it is still an evident issue, per environmental issues like skin cancer from exposure to the Sun, or resistance to weather conditions per temperature, humidity, and allergens.

There are people in environments where bodies are not adapted well, per inherent propensity toward pigmentation, levels of subcutaneous fat, a nose adapted for dry weather or humidity, a barrel chested individual adapted to lower levels of oxygen in higher altitude regions of the world, and many other inherent differences.

Human beings are evidenced as hard wired for verbal communication, but abstract forms of learning per collective intelligence of the last several thousand years, is considered a result of neuroplasticity. It is part of the reason that a Subsarahan African can achieve a Harvard degree, originated from a community that has little access to collective intelligence, as compared to developed countries. Collective intelligence is not measured as hardwired.

There is evidence that some diagnosed autistic individuals develop higher level of intelligence in non-verbal intelligence to compensate for weaknesses in other areas of intelligence, per the research of Michelle Dawson, in individuals with Autistic disorder, whom have low levels of verbal intelligence measured on Weschler tests of intelligence, as opposed to Raven Matrices tests of non-verbal fluid intelligence.

The same adaptations are not measured by that same researcher among indviduals with Apergers Syndrome whom have higher levels verbal intelligence measured in standard intelligence testing. In fact, the adult individuals with Autism Disorder actually scored slightly higher than a control group non-autistic individuals in raven matrices testing. Scores in fluid intelligence have been shown to increase through age and cultural adaptation; it is evident from this research that individuals with deficits in verbal intelligence compensate through non-verbal abstract reasoning as they move into adulthood.

Individuals with Aspergers, children and adults, whom had proportionately higher levels of verbal intelligence as opposed to lower performance intelligence per standard IQ tests, scored significantly lower than non-autistic control groups. A similar adaptation in non-verbal abstract reasoning was not seen in these individuals, compared to the group with autism disorder, in Dawson's research.

No doubt discrimination is alive and well; human beings discriminate based on physical characteristics on an instinctive level, per sexual preference and competition, as well as the rest of the animal kingdom. Sub-cultural norms enhances the issue of discrimination per every issue imaginable. But, it's not politically correct to discriminate where laws apply per sexual orientation, race, disability, national origin, or religion. People certainly don't always follow what is politically correct, though.

Blind obedience is an interesting and proper analogy to the affects of culture enhanced by domestication and reliance on culture. Human beings through cultural adaptations are moving further and further in the direction of a eusocial type hive.

Take the Hive away and bees instinctively will make a new hive within a relatively short period of time, but human beings depend on thousands of years of a type of collective intelligence that is not instinctive, for hive building for very advanced cultures, and would take a very long time to replace if significantly destroyed by natural or manmade disaster. Nuclear bombs are an unfortunate part and danger of that hive.

In living through a natural disaster, and watching the resulting chaos for a few weeks, modern human beings are not prepared for survival in small groups, as our prehistoric ancestors and some human beings still adapt for through a lifetime, without advanced culture.

Even a computer network outage can cripple the work of a large networked organization in seconds. Dependence and blind obedience to the hive continues to increase. Not bad for ants and bees, but fairly dangerous for human beings given the real potential for catastrophe, natural and manmade.

The increasing complexities in the human Hive presents advantages for those with social/communication difficulties that are new in culture. It's another of many accommodations provided for humans that would not likely survive, if left to their own own natural devices, in the wild among feral animals.

Practical creativity is required at the highest of levels for human beings not reliant on a human hive for survival.

It is the type of creativity one would find among our neanderthal ancestors or individuals in Subsarahan cultures that have very few resources for survival.

Without connection to the modern human hive, some modern human beings are paralyzed with fear, of what to do next. We have collective creativity, through the connection of intellectual resources and human connection, but individual creativity, and iniative can be compromised by adaptation to those advantages, in adapting to the simplest of activities such as patience and participation in low stimulus activities, that individuals have little problem with in cultures that do not rely on the type of hive that many humans have become reliant upon in developed countries.

Diagnosed autistic individuals are studied as not being more resilient to violent activity than non-autistic individuals. Several studies provide results that suggest while autistic individuals are more likely to be bullied, overall, autistic individuals are more likely to be engage in bullying activity, and at times do not perceive it as such, particularly those measured with ADHD symptoms. Some individuals diagnosed with autism are more than capable in size and strength to defend themselves against perceived or misperceived verbal assualts or attacks.

I do see where RDOS mentions in his latest blog on his website that he finds a small correlation of .12 in the neurodiversity traits he measures in his quiz and self reports from the 23andme estimation of archaic DNA. The 23andme is only a guestimate of archaic DNA, per reported ancestory, and results provided by samples of actual geographic testing, so it's not a very reliable indicator of actual archaic DNA per actual individual. If ancestory was not reported correctly, which certainly is possible, even unwittingly, with the potential for infidelity in any ancestoral line, the results are not very meaningful in trying to make any correlation of significance. I think, in part he acknowledges this.

The politically powerful do make decisions, that are not in favor of minority interests in the population. There are more advantages than ever for disabled and disadvantaged individuals in developed countries at present, but that is certainly subject to change at any moment with a dramatic change in environmental circumstances manmade, natural catastrophe, or in economic turmoil.

One could see a significant difference in how the urban population in New Orleans was treated differently than the population in Southern Florida and even Northwest Florida after Catastrophic disasters; similiar to what one sees in concern for third world natural disasters as compared to western developed countries with natural disasters.

We are all subject to and dwarfed by the influence of a hive regardless of neurotype, disability, disadvantage, or advantage, with the potential of a bear swatting at it at any moment. I never realized how a much a part I was of a hive, until going through two hurricanes, one a week long inconvenience without electricity, that made me understand the value of airconditioning and ice, and how dependent I was on TV for entertainment, and another much more serious hurricane that made it impossible to buy gas or groceries for an extended period of time, as well as damaging one bridge that made it impossible for thousands of people to get a route to their place of work.

Per your example of getting 3000 people from the population with inventions as opposed to 3000 people without inventions with individuals actually tested for archaic DNA, unlike what the 23andme guestimate does; too many factors come in to play as to whether or not an individual produces an invention in a lifetime, to relate it specifically to inherent ability/ genetics. There are no determined invention genes at this point in time; it could be a result of genetics, adversity, adaptation, or circumstance, as well as many other factors. There is no diagnosis for an inventor, only results per inventions.

There are very few individuals actually diagnosed with autism, that are noted for inventions. But, there are likely many individuals with autistic like traits in the general public, that hold patents.

That, in part, is an issue of a relatively small group of diagnosed autistics, as opposed to the rest of the general population. There is only a minority of the population that holds patents, scattered throughout the general population. There are noted inventors suspected of having autistic traits, but no real evidence that they would meet the criteria for an actual diagnosis, if they lived today; doesn't mean they don't have traits, just no proof that they would meet a definition of significant impairment in everyday life functioning per an actual diagnosis of a disorder.

Every ancestoral link is a necessary component of our existence as human beings, and at some point in the distant past there is the potential that a neanderthal ancestor could have played a role in our existence, so regardless of the significance of that genetic contribution as to how it might have influenced actual human traits, one can't downplay the importance of the neanderthal contribution to the overall potential of our existence, anymore than the rodent ancestor from 75 million years ago, or ones' great great grandfather.

That makes the Neanderthal contribution interesting enough for me, but cultural environment plays a role so huge, in changing the potential of a human being per evidence from our increasing hive like existence, just during the course of one lifetime, it's hard for me to give most of the credit for who I am to either the rodent, the neanderthal, or my great-great grandfather, except if any of those ancestoral links were broken, I would not exist.

I think it is safe to say that it is likely that neanderthals contribution to homo sapiens per physicality, was the ability to withstand a colder environment, through robust features. It only makes sense that those characteristics would continue in environments, in which they continued to play a role in survival to reproductive age. Northern Europe matches that continued environment, as well as geography per admixture. Not surprising that slightly higher concentrations of archaic neanderthal DNA have been measured there. The fact that it is measured at similar levels in south America shows how connected human beings are through world-wide migration.

I can't dismiss the potential that Neanderthals had some autistic like traits; after all those traits are measured as existing out into 30 percent of the population today, and similar traits exist in mice and monkeys, but it's not likely that serious rare anomalies in diagnosed autism like regressive autism existed as conditions that survived into reproductive age, without the type of support and accommodations provided in modern society. And it's not likely that many human beings that live today with or without a disorder, could have survived in a Neanderthal environment, toe to toe, among Neanderthals or Cro-Magnons. Particularly among those that have become dependent on the "hive" for survival, which is certainly not limited to individuals with regressive autism.

The fact that high levels of diagnosed autism are found in the children of Sub-Saharan indigenous Somalians, relocated and diagnosed in societies that have the ability to make the diagnosis, is conclusive enough evidence that the disorder of autism exists among individuals of Sub-Saharan African origin, measured and noted in general, for having low levels of archaic neanderthal DNA. Since mice and monkeys have not bred with neanderthals that should not be a surprise.

Autistic individuals cannot lay sole claim to neanderthal ancestoral heritage, that's been proven without a shadow of a doubt, as genetic samples of DNA have been provided worldwide and it has been suggested that close to 6 billion members of the human species have a significant amount of archaic Neanderthal DNA.

It will be interesting in the future, if scientists determine specific functions for any part of the archaic DNA per Neanderthal or Denisovan origin.

South Asia and Sub-Sahara Africa (and the Middle East by the way) are overwhelmingly neurotypical. They have collective intelligence, but few if any members are autistic and possess substantial *individual* intelligence. At least south Asia tolerates neurodiversity to some extent. In the other two regions the intolerance is genecidal.



True. The neurodivergent do scientific inventions, not cultural ones. Too many neurodivergents is perhaps as bad as too few.



Also to be factored in is that "successful" cultures have a more substantial proportion of neurodivergents. The end result is that the disadvantaged populations have more admixture. This will affect IQ scores as well.



Most likely, Sub-Sarahan Africans are better at dealing with situations where advanced planning is impossible. In Sub-Sarahan Africa the rains come or it doesn't at random. If it wasn't for foreign medical aid the population would be lower and resources not so scare. If anything, life in Africa used to be quite easy in comparison ice-cold Europe.

Also, we have a half Subsarahan President when the system is essentially broken beyond repair. The more dysfunctional the system, the better Afro-Americans are doing. We are now out of balance in our neurotypicality vs neurodivergence mix. The policies of the powers-that-be is to make the situation worse.



Diabetes is the result of living in a year-round summer food supply-wise if you frugally store all your caloric intake.



But the ability to tap into it and spread it further in neurotypicals is.



More likely neurodivergents use innate ability to gain non-verbal intelligence to compensate, if they can.



I am concerned more about organizational discrimination and parenting rather than individual discrimination.



Neurodivergents are hard-wired for this.



What matters is group size. Neanderthals would have it.



23andme only notices recent Neanderthal contributions to the genome. Although the overall correlation is small, it isn't even.



Government policy is designed to appear to be one thing while achieving the opposite. Neurodivergents are equal to neurotypicals in a way that makes them less equal because they don't meet the neurotypical gold standard. The economic turmoil is being deliberately created. The powers-that-be like to shock people with electricity and economic and financial state (includes corporate in my book) terrorism.



Disasters are dealt with in a reactionary way.





Even 1 in 166 is anything but rare. Autistic kids that have been found lost in the woods after being lost for days. They apparently got along much better than adults in "reality" tv shows. I'm not buying it. In the wild it is the neurotypicals that would be at a disadvantage unless they form a group in a savannah or meadow. Their senses are too dull for one thing.



Most likely just abuse cases.



The behavioral differences between most Caucasians and Asians vs Sub-Sahara Africans is relatively minor, if differences exist at all.

There is not reliable diagnostic procedures, substantial awareness, or significant available statistical data, to understand what the prevalence of autistic like traits are in South Asia, the Middle East or Africa. RDOS, does not have significant numbers from natives of those countries, to even determine in his quiz, what subjective self reports might indicate of what he measures as neurodiversity. He bases it on self-reports of ancestry, in the countries that his internet limited quiz reach; those self-reports are subjective for many people, and not necessarily accurate.

If 30% percent Autistic traits exist in the US and Sweden, it's not reasonable that these same traits would not exist at least at significant levels in every area of the world, considering autistic like traits are seen in the animal kingdom.

The folks in the middle east, south Asia, and Africa are not killing off their systemizers with autistic like traits; the engineers, tech folks, mechanics, etc. However in highly populated areas with low resources in Africa, and South Asia, infanticide is used to control population for survival purposes, including severely disabled children, that might have conditions like regressive autism, but there is no way for sure to understand what those statistics might be, because of lack of diagnostic expertise in those countries.

There is no evidence that children of somalian natives living in Sweden, with high rates of autism, are being abused. Abuse alone, has not been evidenced to cause the neurodevelopmental disorder of Autism. And, the medical profession in Sweden is as capable as any other geographical area in the world to make proper diagnoses of Autism.

Source please for diagnosed autistic kids lost in the woods. There are likely some Navy Seals with an autistic trait or two, but kids with serious disabilities do not do well when lost in the woods. There are not very many human beings, disabled or not, that can survive in the wild without cultural assistance, including clothing and shelter.

The 1 in 88 individuals actually diagnosed with autism has little to do with what RDOS categorizes as neurotypical vs. aspie like traits (neurodivergent). These are 8 year olds in classes for the developmentally disabled of which about a third are measured with intellectual deficits and another third are measured as having border line intellectual deficits. He is addressing a much larger part of the population, in what he measures as neurodivergent traits; the approximately 30% that function quite well.


His quiz doesn't have a category for a person to register whom has classic autism. Culture and neuroplasticity do impact these autistic like traits in the general population, and if anything modern culture is becoming more neurodivergent per work-related systemizing requirements necessary to survive, as opposed to the past.

Many people in US culture are busy systemizing throughout the course of the day whether they are connected to a computer, or a handheld device. The modern hive is very much part of neurodivergent inventions, in part, produced by systemizers with autistic like traits. This influences the process of neuroplasticity and the way the general population becomes neurologically wired through the course of a lifetime.

Individuals in developing countries likely would not show as many neurodiverse traits, that RDOS labels as such, associated with lack of face to face interaction, etc., if they actually could take his quiz, in part, because they are not interfacing with a machine for hours every day, for years.

Instead, they commonly interact with human beings, in face-to-face communication. Modern Cultures, through technological innovation, are becoming more autistic like in nature, rather than less autistic like in nature.

We can thank the systemizers such as Bill Gates, and Zuckerberg, in part, for this change in culture, for changing the way some of the population's brains are wired, inherently autistic or not, through the avenue of technological innovations resulting in changes of how one perceives and interacts with the world through changes that occur in the brain as a result of the process of neuroplasticity.

While not as dramatic as non-verbal autistics, in Dawson's research, similar improvements in non-autistic adults in measures of non-verbal intelligence through Raven Matrices tests were measured in those non-autistic adults above and beyond their scores on full measures of intelligence, through standard measures of IQ testing.

These improvements in non-verbal abstract reasoning, in part, as a result of influence of culture, through young adulthood, is evidenced in Dawson's research as a cultural wide phenomenon, for both autistic and non-autistic individuals.

It's interesting because it shows non-autistic individuals adapting to cultural influence, through the process of neuroplasticity similarly as non-verbal autistic adults are adapting, through these different measures of intelligence. This is already a well-addressed phenomenon, per the Flynn effect. Dawson mentioned the adaptation for non-autistics, but did not relate it specifically to the Flynn effect.

While it's not currently associated with any actual inherent disorder in the DSM, it's common sense that individuals whom have less access to interaction with electronic devices, whether they live in the US, Africa, Afghanistan, or Pakistan are going to be neurologically wired more in the direction of face to face social interaction, through the process of neuroplasticity, than their electronic device advantaged counterparts, who spend a great deal of their day interfaced with a machine, for an approximated experience of non-face to face social interaction, which for some people consists of interaction with a video game or pornography, in their leisure hours.

In what way do African Americans do better in our society when there is dysfunction? That certainly wasn't evident in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Although, I tend to think the response would have been much different, if a group of individualsm African American or not, with higher socio-economic influence were impacted by the dysfunction.

People that are accustomed to dealing with adversity, tend to deal with it better than those that don't, if that is what you are referring to. A greater percentage of African Americans are economically disadvantaged than other demographics, so technically there is the potential for more adversity, per that factor.

Black African American males have the highest levels of reported self-esteem among any reported demographic in the US; a good sign of mental health for those individuals, as well as a sign of an ability to adapt to one's environment, regardless of challenge.

No doubt that Obama was highly motivated as an individual, in part, through adversity in his life, as self reported, to achieve the most powerful position in the world, from a quick jump from academia, to Senator, to President, without family background of power and influence. He was the only individual that had the inherent qualities to surpass all other democrat nominees; per the discrimination that still exists in the country, the color of his skin was no advantage in obtaining the nomination, except for the African-American demographic support, in the general election.

Also no doubt Obama has a lot of self-esteem, it comes through loud and clear, a requirement for success in politics and a definite advantage, in life, in general. And again, a cultural strength measured among the demographic of African American Males.

Significant behavioral differences exist, well beyond any diagnosed disorder, and is dependent on genetic and environmental influence. There is no majority of people anywhere evidenced as not having signficant behavioral differences, among individuals in any group, not even in a group of two identical twins, in the same household. Proof of how malleable the human brain is to what may appear as the smallest of environmental differences.

The 150 questions in the Aspie Quiz address select behaviors in the population, but only touches on the full expanse of human behavioral expression. And beyond this the neurodiverse construct is ideology, and not reflective of actual identified specific genetic differences, or inherent neurological differences identified among human beings, through testing.

What is measured in the Aspie Quiz is dependent, in part, on one's environment and circumstances changing across time as one adapts to those factors. If an extremely social child eventually becomes involved in a high tech field, away from face to face social interaction, for years, they are not going to score the same as that child would had they gone into a field that requires constant social interaction, for years. Humans continuously adapt; what the Aspie Quiz measures is a constant moving target, based on those continuous adaptations.

It would be interesting to test some of these youth that are actually identified as the diagnosed 1 in 88, to see how they might score, compared to the online population that the aspie quiz reaches. At this point there is no way to tell how individuals with Classic Autism disorder might score as a group, because the Aspie quiz does not attempt to identify and collect data per those that have classic autism disorder.

That makes it difficult to make any valid comparisons between actual autism disorder and any potential neanderthal connection through the use of the Aspie Quiz results. But that doesn't appear to have been his intention, even though the theory is called the Neanderthal Theory of Autism.

Neurodiversity per a significant number of those questions are associated to the common behavioral traits of introversion. Those traits of sitters vs wanderers are studied as existing at similar levels in human beings and the rest of the animal kingdom, likely Neanderthals as well, but we are never going to know for sure. That too, is only a small part of the complexity of what is human behavior, and what might separate two autistic twins from each other per behavioral differences.

It would also be interesting, to test youth and adult twins both diagnosed with autism, with the aspie quiz. An interesting measure in how much environment impacts these traits. A twin raised in the US diagnosed with autism compared to another twin separated diagnosed with Autism, raised in Subsarahan Africa would be interesting as well.

This potential circumstance may already exist among isolated cases of Somalian twins diagnosed with autism separated from each other through migration.

I suspect the overall environment in Sweden and the US, as compared to the overall environment in the US, may impact the development of diagnosed autism in Somalians as well as genetic propensity mixed throughout populations. Abuse could play a part as well in severity of symptoms, but there isn't any significant evidence of it, identified in Sweden or the US.

Another monologue riddled with fallacies, misinterpretations, and other problems in logic as usual by aghogday. I bet RDOS gave up on you long ago.

I think he (or she) doesn't get it.

Really, where? In 1 out 166 or higher prevelance?







In two of those areas the killing happened long ago. They have to import their engineers to build their nuclear facilities, etc. You can bet the few engineers and the like they have are lacking in many of the abilities those in more technologically successful counties possess. South Asia is starting to develop after a long period of stagnation. They no doubt have neurodiverse people, just a lower proportion.



The first thing they need to do to get out of their hole is stop digging.



The objective of psychiatry is to ignore abuse and reverse the gains that were starting to be made.



It is a bit strange that we didn't see these problems until recently. A better hypothesis is that something is wrong with society and how children are raised.




The skyrocketing rates of classical autism to Asperger's suggest that modern culture is becoming more neuroelitist.



They are busy yapping away on cell phones while driving at the same time.



Computers are now used mainly to connect with other neurotypicals through sites like Facebook. I hardly see current popular sites and software as neurodivergent user-friendly.



Why couldn't he at least hire someone to write a OS kernel and had to buy one from Seattle Computer Company. RDOS wrote his in assembly code. Why did a Windows 95 (Windows being a decade old OS already) need to be rebooted about every 95 minutes?



It is also commonsense that environment will not change neurotypicals into neurodivergents. There will be some effect though, yes. Only those near the diagnostic threshold need worry.



"New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina" is a no-win situation. In other cases, they can rap about haters and bling if nothing else.

There are many that are now doing well. How they get the money I have no idea.



Adversity isn't one monolithic thing.



He worked hierarchical systems.



RDOS has stated he minimizes this as much as possible.



The first order of business is to establish that at least two different species exists in humanity, at least behavior-wise. What we'll probably find is that most "autism" is abuse cases -- most of which are neurodivergents. In Somalia neurodivergents probably don't exist, at least not the type in Europe, Asia, and the New World.



Psychiatrist look for neurological differences, not the family and other social dynamics. The days of Freud are over. It is now all biomedical claptrap.

The thirty percent is the broader autism phenotype and beyond. One does not even have to have a social/communication impairment to have these traits; they can be completely within the criteria of Restrictive Repetitive Behaviors. In fact, in 1994 the DSM, through an editorial mistake, allowed individuals to potentially be diagnosed with RRB's only, and meet an austism spectrum disorder diagnosis with PDD NOS, until the error was corrected in 2000.

Autistic traits are common among systemizers. Systemizers exist throughout the world, wherever there are human beings. While they might not be disabled with a disorder, in part because of the potential activity of actual face to face interaction in their less technologically developed countries, there are still people stronger in empathy and others stronger in systemization.


Information technology is one of the largest industries in India; the largest country in South Asia. There is no way to tell the actual prevalence of autism disorders in those countries per limited diagnostic ability, but for all we know neurodiversity, as measured by RDOS's quiz, if it could be administered in that country, could be as high or higher than it is in the US, among his demographic of caucasians that he measures. One can't judge inherent neurodiversity alone by the products of cultures, however culture as discussed earlier definitely influences neurological changes and behavior.

I'm not sure where you live, but per those Somalians than live in the US, diagnosed with Autism, the US screens for family abuse more than it ever has in the historical past. Psychiatry for the most part is limited to treatment by medicine. Psychologists, psychotherapists, general practioners and Social workers still screen for family abuse, at least, in the US. They greatly out number psychiatrists, and many people either can't afford or don't have access to an actual psychiatrist.

The process of Neuroplasticity changes the wiring of all human beings, depending on environmental influence and genetics. Differences in neurology among many individuals diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders are unremarkable in brain scans. The areas, such as regressive autism are limited areas where inherent differences have been measured, per example of abnormal brain growth.

Whether or not Gates, an extreme systemizer, had the best product or not, it definitely has changed the world, and how people interact in it.

The US, does not have accurate statistics for what the actual rates of Aspergers is, in the general population, because of the restricted methdology, demographic, and results of CDC studies. They have directed their attention to programs for the developmentally disabled, because that is what the government must plan to fund.

I'm not suggesting that is a good thing. Autism Speaks is funding research at this point in time to determine a fuller accounting for the full population, just in time before the DSM5 goes into affect and Aspergers is no longer a part of that diagnostic criteria. They will likely find much higher rates of higher functioning Autism, as in the recent studies done in the adult population in England.

Yes, I agree that RDOS has attempted to account for environmental influence, however it continues across a lifetime. There is no way to predict the impact of environment, the process of neuroplasticity, and the resulting neurological changes in a human being in the future, and there is no way to accurately measure it from the past, as well.

Society has had an incredible change in how children are raised. Many are raised by TV, videogames, computers, etc., in part. Some of these environmental changes, are only several decades old. This is definitely changing the way brains function through neuroplasticity, behavior, as well as social communication. It is almost impossible to determine the effect of it, per those actually diagnosed with autism, because it is so difficult to find a control group that has not been exposed to a lifetime of novel stimulus, in a similar demographic and location.

When I worked with the public exposed to hundreds of individuals a day, for decades, I had no choice but to adapt. When I worked with computers there was no need to adapt. My Aspie score is 195 at this point in my life, per Aspie quiz.

When I was working with people on a continuous basis, I would have likely scored somewhere close to the balanced area. Before I worked with the general public, I likely would have scored close to 190, and in highschool, was fairly balanced through adaptation. I was probably fairly close, in score, to what I am now, in middle school years and earlier if there was a test designed for children.

Most every human being has the ability to adapt to some degree. I was non-verbal and adapted, but I had no choice but to adapt or not survive. I wasn't sure how I adapted like I did, at different times in my life when it was required, but neuroplasticity explains part of the process in detail, per re-wiring of the brain.

Videogames do little for the skills required in face to face interaction, nor do many other areas of modern communication or some other leisure activities. Children isolated from face to face interaction from others, as part of abuse, do exhibit behaviors associated with social communication difficulties, as well as psychological problems. The influence is not the same if one is partially isolated from others through machine interface, but machine interface does not match face to face interaction in humans or other animals.

There is no data for the actual prevalence of autism in somalia, but if there was, and it could actually be proven to be extremely low, like one sees it in areas such as Amish country, where face to face interaction is the main method of communication, it could be food for thought, in overall prevalence levels.

Autism has been measured in Uganda, another Subsarahan country; it exists, but again as in Somalia, the data is not available to determine at what levels it exists. I wouldn't surprised at all if it is at close to the same levels of 1 in 295, as measured in a scan of an entire community. in Amish Country.

That Amish study as opposed to the South Korean study with a statistic of 1 in 38, of an entire school environment, is noteworthy in comparison. Before a community scan was done in Amish country ASD's were studied to exist, per existing diagnoses, at levels of 1 in 15,000. Autism Spectrum Disorders likely exist everywhere, and it appears that some part of modern culture whether toxins, hormones, etc., or the process of neuroplasticity through cultural stimulus, impacts whether or not someone is diagnosed with an actual disorder, above and beyond genetics.

Facebook, overall, is not entirely social friendly, per the actual human need for face to face interaction, touch, etc. It is a "human friendly" computer interface similar to Microsoft and Apple's developed Graphic user interface to anthropomorphize machines to better approximate a virtual human reality, than our old friend DOS. But, it is not the same as the reality that humans have been adapted to through the course of their existance on the planet.

Those machine interfaces have not only become leisure activities, but a requirement in many areas of subsistence gaining activities.

Real live face to face human interaction does not require the systemizing skills that are required to use the interface of facebook. The more humans sytemize the more humans adapt to that skill, as in any other adaptation to a skill. That's not necessarily going to make a social butterfly into a systemizer with lower levels of empathy, but it has already beem studied as not being particularly psychologically healthy, per social interaction, for some.

I think I'm pretty much agreeing with many of your points, I'm moving into different elements of society that are fairly similar to some of your points, per overall societial influence.

In the US though, just the overall requirement for systemization skills whether it is structuring a list of friends in a cell phone, uploading photos onto a facebook page, or using a computer at a register at Walmart, these activities and many others are increasing the time that most human beings spend systemizing through the course of a day.

In fact, over the last several decades, per studies of young adults in the college environment empathy levels as measured on a longitudinal basis have dropped significantly. That's just a correlation, as well as the process of neuroplasticity and the impact of systemization, but it is a dramatic change in culture per what human beings feed their brains on a daily basis. The diet makes a difference in neurology, and behavior. It doesn't appear that society is moving in the empathy direction.

The study by Autism Speaks may provide a better indication in the systemizing area. Not much hard data, in that area to this point, in the general population, in the US.

One of the biased issues with the data from the Aspie quiz, is that it selects for systemization per the avenue it is provided on the internet. Those that use the internet as heavy users, are more likely to be systemizers than those that don't, if not only by influence of the medium and the process of neuroplasticity.

Another issue is that while about 80% of the population has internet access, there are still pockets of ethnic groups like native American Indians that are far behind the curve, living on reservations, where some still don't have access to phones, as well as very low levels of access to broad band internet access.

The Aspie Quiz recorded a greater response from those identifying themselves as American Indians, than the representative population of Indians identified per US Census.

Some people in the general population, in the US, that have tiny amounts of native American Indian blood identify themselves as such by culture, but not necessarily by Census, so per this ethnic sample, self reports are not necessarily representative of actual majority bloodline per individual.

Since the majority of Native American Indians live on reservations, many of whom do not have internet access, it is extremely unlikely that the higher represented interest shown from the Aspie Quiz data, per native American Indians, is accurate.

Similar issues impact other self reports of ethnic groups including African Americans, where lack of interest is correlated to an extremely limited avenue of access through points on the internet where the quiz is linked, that some ethnic groups are more likely to visit than others, depending on subcultural preferences per internet interests. Beyond this not everyone is into taking 150 question tests on the internet, regardless of what they pertain to, because of limited attention spans. Most commercial self-help quizes are no more than 10 questions long.

So basically what one has is those that visit areas on the internet where the Aspie Quiz is linked, individuals that understand what the term Aspie means, and are interested in taking the time to answer 150 questions. The biggest issue is that the term Aspie, is majority limited to online autistic communities, per what it means. If it doesn't mean anything to someone they aren't likely going to take the time to click on the link and answer 150 questions, if they happen to come across it on the points of the internet where it is made available.

I think it is a good screening tool to pursue further investigation of an autism disorder, if one scores highly on it, but it doesn't appear to be a tool as currently provided to be used for an accurate assessment of different ethnic groups. We don't have accurate data for autism prevalence in much of the world, because those individuals cannot be reached, diagnosed, and measured as having the disorder.

The Aspie Quiz, does not appear to accurately break that barrier, per measuring defined neurodiverse traits, through an estimated extrapolation of defined traits from western countries extended to other areas in the world, per limitations as discussed.

Organizations though, are working worldwide to determine Autism Spectrum Disorder prevalences in every country through actual outreach. It's likely going to take decades to get accurate estimates from all countries, but that is currently the goal as expressed by these organizations that are working together to meet it.

The folks from Amish country for the most part are of Northern European descent. The low levels of autism spectrum disorders speaks clearer and louder to me than any other statistic currently available, of just how much environment likely plays a role, specific to Western Developed countries. And I don't suspect it is all about what we are drinking in the water or eating. And morever, I suspect there are as many individuals that are born sitters, rather than wanderers, included somewhere on a broader autism phenotype in Amish Country, as anywhere else in the world.

That's studied at about 20% as a genetic trait, from birth, rather than a trait acquired from post-natal environmental influence across the animal kingdom. Just because there are low levels of diagnosed autism spectrum disorders, even when scanned population wide, does not mean one is not going to find the type of traits measured as neurodiverse ones on the Aspie Quiz.

I would love to see the scores of the Aspie Quiz, provided by a paper version of the test to a High School group of Amish Individuals, and a version translated in paper form for a classroom of Subsarahan Africans. I don't suspect the scores would be that much different on average, per the animal kingdom population wide propensity for genetic sitting and wandering .

And there is probably someone somewhere that would take the effort to do it. That wouldn't cost nearly as much as DNA testing, to settle the question of whom has more of these traits measured on the Aspie Quiz. Amish Country is the closest thing to a US control group, that I can imagine.

Also an opportunity to use the same screening tool for actual autism spectrum disorders on the Ugandan students to compare the 1 in 295 statistic found in Amish Country. At least, an approximation of that effort is already in the works.

With a little tweaking, and the peer review process for the Aspie Quiz, it's more likely that a University research team would pick up that relatively cheap challenge.

But, it's RDOS's special interest and tool, and I understand the reluctance to change any special interest, in this case to potentially sacrifice terms like Aspie and Neurotypical Hunting, and potentially a few questions, for political correctness that might be hard to stomach, but easier for those in the scientific community to accept.

A much bigger incentive though, for someone to pick up the ball, with the resources, and run with it.

He could still have the personal satisfaction of comparing the two cultures by direct means, per his Neanderthal/Defined Neurodiverse traits interest.

There could always be two versions. Maybe a Neurodiversity Quiz and an Aspie Quiz.

Boston University already did a peer reviewed study using PPR here on this internet site to study religious beliefs and Autism, I see a comparison of the Amish and Ugandans as opposed to a class room from New Jersey to add the third and final element to, per a measure of a peer reviewed "Neurodiversity" quiz, as much more interesting, and perhaps much more enlightening.

A scan of autism disorders using the same tool, and a scan of "neurodiverse traits" using the same tool among all three demographics would be extremely interesting, and RDOS owns half of the potential tools.

I think he has heard similar suggestions per the peer review process for his quiz that he may not be willing to compromise on, but maybe in light of what his major special interest is, this may be a way to eventually find the information, that he has been looking for on a personal basis, and that you appear to be interested in, too.

The rest of the scientific community is extremely interested in autistic traits per different cultures and environments, so that might not be a hard sale, even if the quiz was labeled as a Neurodiversity Quiz, as long as it met acceptable standards and was published through a peer reviewed journal.

I'm attempting to provide some middle ground, for what I see as valuable potential for the Aspie Quiz to be used in potentially valuable ways in science, if peer reviewed and validated as a scientific tool. I've already provided much of what I sincerely intend as constructive comments in the past to RDOS, per the Neanderthal aspect of his interests, but just thought of this idea through this dialogue and curious what you think about it, as one interested in RDOS' work.

Last edited by aghogday on 05 Jun 2012, 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

I just saw a documentary about Neanderthals the other day. Most people with western european genes seem to have some Neanderthal blood in them. The Neanderthal heritage doesn't limit itself to people with autism and there is no specific correlation between Neanderthals and autism.

It was an interesting documentary. I always thought that Neanderthals where not as brainy and developed as homo sapiens but that didn't seem to be the case at all, on the contrary. We homo sapiens seem to think that we are the most magnificent creatures that ever walked on the face of the earth but I always had some serious doubts about that.

So what distinguishes those that supposedly have a social/communication impairment vs the others? Obviously, psychiatrists should stop looking for biomedical explanations and look to sociological explanations.



You can be sure systemizers with autistic traits are rare or non-existant in the Middle East and Sub-Sahara Africa.





India has such a large population that their number of neurodivergents could match ours with a 1/4 prevalence rate. Besides neurotypical "leaders" would rather hire 100 neurotypicals than hire a neurodivergent to get a programming task done. Now, from what I hear you can get programmers at minimum wage.



Politics has taken over and corrupted everything. Most abuse they see doesn't exist in the first place. Most real abuse goes undetected. In order to see the truth you have to want to see it.



Genetics sets the limits though.



The Amish are proof the problem lies in the changes in society they have largely escaped. Autism isn't detected in them because they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong. It isn't technology either. It is most like largely due to attitude toward strangers and difference and the value of life.



The social toxins in the school environment is the obvious self-evident problem.



Despite having to do math, cashiering is hardly a systemizing job. Any needed creativity has to do with handling neurotypical customers.



The term "empathy" is being used too broadly. Neurotypicals are hardly "empathetic," they are quite judgmental in nature -- the reason for the bio-"medical" claptrap.



What is obvious from the data available is that we can expect more technologically successful (by relatively modern criteria) civilizations to have higher rates of neurodivergents. Less successful ones would have a need for fewer. If fewer are needed the civilization is unlikely to support as many. They can't exist if they don't have roles.



At the rate we are going civilization will suffer a train-wreck long before then.



Well, at this point, I don't care if you think the Earth is flat too. It just isn't plausible.



Because they've avoided the toxic changes in society over the last 150 or so years.



The Neuroelitists Shrieks study is far more dependent on environmental influences than the Aspie-Quiz you keep knocking. They will get results that fog the issue.



It is unlikely that a university would take this up. Such multiculturalists do not want to accept diversity, they deny it even exists.



He is not going to bend the truth to just to make his theories more appealing.



Hardly. There are only two neurologies identified so far.



The priority is that there are at least two different races or species at the behavioral level and gaining acceptance of an ethical and moral approach to difference.



They are interested in pathologizing because they are biased and not being scientific. It is a new variant of racist research -- internal racism.

Actually, you need to check your assumptions. Just because 3%-5% of our DNA (assuming you are not from sub-Saharan Africa) comes from Neanderthal does not mean that we all get the same genes. For example, the Chinese have roughly the same percentage as the French, but the composition of that genetic inheritance is different.

More to the point, though, among the genes identified by Svante Paabo's team at the Max Planck Institute to be inherited from Neanderthal, there were genes strongly correlated with schizophrenia and Autism, as well as metabolic disorders and some other things. At this point, it is no longer viable to deny the connection between Autism and our Neanderthal hybrid ancestry.

Per current revision of the DSM5 there will be no individuals without RRB's diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Currently, with a PDD NOS diagnosis there are individuals not identified with RRB's with an Autism Spectrum disorder diagnosis. And as stated in the previous post per an editorial error in the DSMIV there was the potential that individuals were diagnosed without any social/communication impairments, in the period of 1994 through 2000.

Autism Spectrum Disorders is a term invented to describe behaviors and symptoms in human beings. The criteria and definition of the disorders has changed greatly over the last few decades as those that determine that human construct have defined and described it differently over that period of time.

Autism will no longer be identified the same way next year as it is this year. RRB's are a criteria of autism, existing in some individuals in the population that do no meet the other criteria that make an actual diagnosis of an Autism Spectrum Disorder. These folks are not considered significantly impaired in social communication. But, never the less, they are among those identified as having autistic traits per the studies done in the US and Sweden, that show these traits exist out into thirty percent of the population.

There are hundreds of types of neurologies identified in human beings, through brain scans that indicate remarkable results, many of which are associated with behavior. The Aspie quiz identifies behaviors as does the DSMIV. That is not actual identification of the physiology associated with neurology in either measure of behavior. Individuals diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorders are identified as having varying neurology per behavioral observation. But there is no way to measure it, per actual brain scans, in most individuals.

The term neurotypical is only useful to distinguish actual autism diagnosed individuals and individuals that are not diagnosed with autism; it is a limited subcultural term, that has no actual definition in a dictionary. There is no evidence of typical neurology among human beings, only unremarkable findings on brain scans, that are are also evident in many individuals with autism spectrum disorders.

The ideology that there are two human species has no evidentiary support anywhere in science. In fact, the issue is not even debated in science. There are thousands of disorders that exist, many personality differences, as well as physical differences, but at the end of the day there is proven reproductive compatibility among all groups of human beings existing on the planet.

If you are hoping a correlation is shown with neanderthal DNA and what the Aspie Quiz measures as neurodiversity, I'm not sure why you bring up the Middle East. It is an area where the admixture event is most likely evidenced as occuring. Archaic Neanderthal DNA is measured among individuals in those middle eastern countries per close to the same levels as it is measured anywhere in Northern Europe.

http://discovermagazine.com/2011/may/25-homo-sapiens-meet-new-astounding-family/article_view?b_start:int=3&-C=



The Aspie quiz is a great tool for measuring what it defines, but it has measured nothing of significance in any middle eastern country or in any African Subsarahan country because the test cannot be used there without a language translation.

So, at this point there is no evidence that those populations would score significantly different than any other defined population group, anywhere else in the world. A suggestion that they would score significantly differently is only a hypothesis, without actual testing of that hypothesis.

An attempt of an extrapolation from the different self-reporting identifying ethnic groups in other English speaking countries through limited internet access provides no evidence of significance among what individuals in the middle east and Subsarahan African countries might score if actually provided the opportunity to take a quiz that was translated in their language.

If there is no actual attempt to translate and actually administer the quiz in those countries, there is no potential that any information regarding results from the quiz in those countries will ever be determined.

And, if there is no interest to adapt to the standards of the peer review process, there is little potential that the hypothesis will ever be tested among those with the potential resources to test it. There might not be a good chance that someone would fund the research but some chance is better than little chance.


I like to keep an open mind and usually check facts before I present them. In checking the statement on the 2 species of humans, I ran across a Department head, from the University of Florida that has written a couple novels expressing his ideology that there are two distinct species of man, one of whom which has unusual systemization, creative, organizational, and out of the box thinking abilities. He relates that species as 2 percent of the population.

Some of his ideology sounds similar to some of the ideology that you have expressed in the discussion. And, reminiscent of the ideologies of RDOS's Neanderthal theory of Autism.

Interestingly though, this ideology and an actual society that has been formed associated with it, has nothing to specific to do with any of the terms used in this discussion, per Autism, Neurodiversity, Neanderthals, or National/geographical Origin.

This individual would likely not stay employed at UF, if he presented anything negative associated with advantage per race, gender, disability or national origin in his publications.

The quote linked below, focuses on the skills associated with systemization, creativity, organization, and out of the box thinking, in describing the two species theory. I never heard of the author before, but he seems to have a similar view expressed in the Neanderthal Theory of Autism, in a completely different context, with similar described characteristics of human beings. He restricts his ideology to a genetic perspective rather than a cultural one, like RDOS is attempting to do.



http://a3society.org/Two%20Human%20Species

http://www.wikigenes.org/e/ref/e/12160723.html

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/38620

Per links above the CADPS2 and AUTS2 gene mutations associated with autism have an extremely low correlation with Autism if any.

The AUTS2 mutation has been identified associated with only 1 group of twins, and is not considered an autism succeptibility gene.

The CADPS2 mutation was found inclusive as associated with autism in the most recent study and per that study the mutation is not considered an autism succeptibility gene.

The normal expression of these genes are common in human beings as well as other animals. The normal genes are what is associated with archaic Neanderthal gene variants. Neither of these two mutations are seen in Archaic Neanderthal DNA.

There is no direct evidenced connection between Autism and archaic neanderthal DNA.

The only current suggested connection between archaic Neanderthal DNA/Denosivan DNA is possible immune system advantage. However, there is no definitive link.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/international/study-sex-with-neanderthals-likely-strengthened-human-immune-system/