Adults with Aspergers Seem 'Normal' to Me
26 Apr 2012, 5:54 pm
Tuttle wrote:
My ability to post online, my ability to feed myself (assuming no need to do grocery shopping), my ability to get a college degree, my ability to do grocery shopping, and my ability to clean are all different. Of those I'd say the only pair of those which one is simplier than the other is that posting online is simplier than getting a bachelor's degree - but that's because of the double major I'd taken. Grocery shopping, however, is not actually easier or harder than getting a bachelor's degree innately. I personally found getting a bachelor's degree far more time consuming but actually in some ways much easier than shopping and making myself food.
Completely advanced math classes is just math, that's far easier than figuring out how much water is supposed to be used for cooking different types of foods.
Necessity triggers me to act too, but sometimes acting is asking others to do what I need because I can't.
So if the house you were in caught fire you wouldn't be able to leave?
I never said anything about difficulty leaving a burning house, I talked about difficulty cooking. Leaving a burning house is completely different.
I never said I can't act at all. I said certain types of things I just don't know how to do and figuring them out doesn't work for me.
Posting is easy, taking care of my cat, feeding her and cleaning her litter box and making sure she always has water, is easy. Feeding myself is much more difficult than feeding my cat.
Completely advanced math classes is just math, that's far easier than figuring out how much water is supposed to be used for cooking different types of foods.
Quote:
So necessity often enables me to act and I'm wondering what triggers these other people to act
Necessity triggers me to act too, but sometimes acting is asking others to do what I need because I can't.
nessa238 wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I don't think you understand that what I'm talking about isn't "can't be bothered", its not being lazy, its having no clue how to do these things. It's being overwhelmed by all the options and freezing and the only way to break out of that (if its possible) is to stop trying.
So if the house you were in caught fire you wouldn't be able to leave?
I never said anything about difficulty leaving a burning house, I talked about difficulty cooking. Leaving a burning house is completely different.
Quote:
Presumably you're able to overcome this inability to act to the extent that you can turn your computer on and post on this forum?
I never said I can't act at all. I said certain types of things I just don't know how to do and figuring them out doesn't work for me.
Posting is easy, taking care of my cat, feeding her and cleaning her litter box and making sure she always has water, is easy. Feeding myself is much more difficult than feeding my cat.
Very interesting
I'd find that level of maths impossible to do
So perhaps there's some kind of correlation whereby the more mathematical ability a person has, the less able they are to do more practical day to day tasks?
I'm rubbish at maths but have no problem with cooking - you sound very clever at maths but often have trouble cooking. I wonder how common a problem this is for people with above-average ability at maths?
Last edited by nessa238 on 26 Apr 2012, 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
26 Apr 2012, 5:55 pm
nessa238 wrote:
We weren't talking specifically about cooking though; just finding something to eat so that you don't starve to death
Can you walk down the street without disassociating? Can you walk through a doorway into a grocery store without having an instant headache? Do you deal with pain that makes you unable to walk to get yourself water to swallow advil with? Can you walk down the street at night and see what's in front of you without the headlights from the cars blinding you and making you unable to even notice if someone is walking your way?
These are only a few of the things I need to take into account when leaving my apartment at all.
I said before that I'm eating fine and that just turning to others and not trying to live on my own easily makes me not have to worry about food. However, even getting food is not necessarily nearly as simple as you're making it out to be.
26 Apr 2012, 6:01 pm
Tuttle wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
We weren't talking specifically about cooking though; just finding something to eat so that you don't starve to death
Can you walk down the street without disassociating? Can you walk through a doorway into a grocery store without having an instant headache? Do you deal with pain that makes you unable to walk to get yourself water to swallow advil with? Can you walk down the street at night and see what's in front of you without the headlights from the cars blinding you and making you unable to even notice if someone is walking your way?
These are only a few of the things I need to take into account when leaving my apartment at all.
I said before that I'm eating fine and that just turning to others and not trying to live on my own easily makes me not have to worry about food. However, even getting food is not necessarily nearly as simple as you're making it out to be.
No, as I'm not what's commonly termed a hypochondriac
26 Apr 2012, 6:04 pm
nessa238 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
In my mind, if a person can turn a computer on and post on a discussion forum, they easily have the intelligence necessary to be able to feed themselves, as operating a computer is a far more complex task than eating
I'm not doubting that people are having these problems; it just doesn't make logical sense to me when one task is a lot harder than the otherl
I'm having trouble finding words to explain my thoughts on this, but I'll try.
When I was in preschool, my teacher suggested that my parents should get me evaluated, as she had some concerns about me. The psychologist who evaluated with me was flummoxed, as I struggled with some tasks that were meant to be easy, and easily completed some tasks that were meant to be difficult.
I completed a Master's program several years ago. Currently, I work with preschoolers who are in Special Education. I recently finished a round of reports, writing pages and pages of reports on these children. When I submitted the completed reports to my boss, she was impressed with the quality of my work. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here in an apartment that's an out of control mess, because keeping my apartment reasonably clean and organized just feels too complex. It's too many steps, and
I just can't figure out how to do it. I have three overflowing garbage bags nearby, because bringing my garbage to the incinerator room that is *literally* right next to my apartment just feels like more than I'm able to handle. That's how I operate. There are some complex tasks I succeed at, even as I fail at tasks that are supposed to be simple.
I don't have the time or energy to write a lengthy post on discrepancy within IQ scores and skill scatter at the moment. Suffice it to say, for the neurologically atypical, "easy" and "difficult" are not so clear cut.
_________________
"And I find it kind of funny, I find it kind of sad./ The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had."
26 Apr 2012, 6:07 pm
OuterBoroughGirl wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
In my mind, if a person can turn a computer on and post on a discussion forum, they easily have the intelligence necessary to be able to feed themselves, as operating a computer is a far more complex task than eating
I'm not doubting that people are having these problems; it just doesn't make logical sense to me when one task is a lot harder than the otherl
I'm having trouble finding words to explain my thoughts on this, but I'll try.
When I was in preschool, my teacher suggested that my parents should get me evaluated, as she had some concerns about me. The psychologist who evaluated with me was flummoxed, as I struggled with some tasks that were meant to be easy, and easily completed some tasks that were meant to be difficult.
I completed a Master's program several years ago. Currently, I work with preschoolers who are in Special Education. I recently finished a round of reports, writing pages and pages of reports on these children. When I submitted the completed reports to my boss, she was impressed with the quality of my work. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here in an apartment that's an out of control mess, because keeping my apartment reasonably clean and organized just feels too complex. It's too many steps, and
I just can't figure out how to do it. I have three overflowing garbage bags nearby, because bringing my garbage to the incinerator room that is *literally* right next to my apartment just feels like more than I'm able to handle. That's how I operate. There are some complex tasks I succeed at, even as I fail at tasks that are supposed to be simple.
I don't have the time or energy to write a lengthy post on discrepancy within IQ scores and skill scatter at the moment. Suffice it to say, for the neurologically atypical, "easy" and "difficult" are not so clear cut.
Here's some advice if you can't figure out what to do with the garbage - pick it up and carry it to the incinerator room
26 Apr 2012, 6:12 pm
nessa238 wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
We weren't talking specifically about cooking though; just finding something to eat so that you don't starve to death
Can you walk down the street without disassociating? Can you walk through a doorway into a grocery store without having an instant headache? Do you deal with pain that makes you unable to walk to get yourself water to swallow advil with? Can you walk down the street at night and see what's in front of you without the headlights from the cars blinding you and making you unable to even notice if someone is walking your way?
These are only a few of the things I need to take into account when leaving my apartment at all.
I said before that I'm eating fine and that just turning to others and not trying to live on my own easily makes me not have to worry about food. However, even getting food is not necessarily nearly as simple as you're making it out to be.
No, as I'm not what's commonly termed a hypochondriac
That's not me being a hypochondriac. That's a short description of some of what I deal with in terms of my sensory issues and the migraines that are caused by them. Sensory issues are very real, as are migraines.
26 Apr 2012, 6:15 pm
Tuttle wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
We weren't talking specifically about cooking though; just finding something to eat so that you don't starve to death
Can you walk down the street without disassociating? Can you walk through a doorway into a grocery store without having an instant headache? Do you deal with pain that makes you unable to walk to get yourself water to swallow advil with? Can you walk down the street at night and see what's in front of you without the headlights from the cars blinding you and making you unable to even notice if someone is walking your way?
These are only a few of the things I need to take into account when leaving my apartment at all.
I said before that I'm eating fine and that just turning to others and not trying to live on my own easily makes me not have to worry about food. However, even getting food is not necessarily nearly as simple as you're making it out to be.
No, as I'm not what's commonly termed a hypochondriac
That's not me being a hypochondriac. That's a short description of some of what I deal with in terms of my sensory issues and the migraines that are caused by them. Sensory issues are very real, as are migraines.
I've no doubt
You seem to allow them to rule your life to an unhealthy degree though in my opinion
Are you familiar with the concept of 'just trying to get on with things despite the difficulties'?
Try it, it might be a revelation to you
26 Apr 2012, 6:19 pm
SkyHeart wrote:
my care giver helps me to put out rubish. Also I can come in here and post. I have autistic disorder. people with asperger can and they can stil have dificuties.
My partner often puts the rubbish out as I can't be bothered or I forget
I don't dispute that people have these diffficulties; I just think they could probably do more if they just pushed themselves a little bit harder - this works for me anyway
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,474
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
26 Apr 2012, 6:20 pm
nessa238 wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
We weren't talking specifically about cooking though; just finding something to eat so that you don't starve to death
Can you walk down the street without disassociating? Can you walk through a doorway into a grocery store without having an instant headache? Do you deal with pain that makes you unable to walk to get yourself water to swallow advil with? Can you walk down the street at night and see what's in front of you without the headlights from the cars blinding you and making you unable to even notice if someone is walking your way?
These are only a few of the things I need to take into account when leaving my apartment at all.
I said before that I'm eating fine and that just turning to others and not trying to live on my own easily makes me not have to worry about food. However, even getting food is not necessarily nearly as simple as you're making it out to be.
No, as I'm not what's commonly termed a hypochondriac
That's not me being a hypochondriac. That's a short description of some of what I deal with in terms of my sensory issues and the migraines that are caused by them. Sensory issues are very real, as are migraines.
I've no doubt
You seem to allow them to rule your life to an unhealthy degree though in my opinion
Are you familiar with the concept of 'just trying to get on with things despite the difficulties'?
Try it, it might be a revelation to you
Many of us have tried just ignoring our difficulties or pushing ourselves too hard when there are some limitations, only to have had it backfire....I don't think having real limitations is the same thing as 'letting' them rule ones life, that is like telling someone missing a leg they are letting their lack of limb prevent them from waking.
Why the assumption anyone who explains the limitations they have, does not make an effort to try getting on with things as best they can?
_________________
We won't go back.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,474
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
26 Apr 2012, 6:22 pm
nessa238 wrote:
SkyHeart wrote:
my care giver helps me to put out rubish. Also I can come in here and post. I have autistic disorder. people with asperger can and they can stil have dificuties.
My partner often puts the rubbish out as I can't be bothered or I forget
I don't dispute that people have these diffficulties; I just think they could probably do more if they just pushed themselves a little bit harder - this works for me anyway
Pushing ones self to hard though can be quite detrimental as well. Also not everyone has a partner to take out the trash when they are too lazy. And as I said not wanting to do something out of laziness is not what is being discussed here so it can't really be compared to that.
_________________
We won't go back.
26 Apr 2012, 6:32 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
We weren't talking specifically about cooking though; just finding something to eat so that you don't starve to death
Can you walk down the street without disassociating? Can you walk through a doorway into a grocery store without having an instant headache? Do you deal with pain that makes you unable to walk to get yourself water to swallow advil with? Can you walk down the street at night and see what's in front of you without the headlights from the cars blinding you and making you unable to even notice if someone is walking your way?
These are only a few of the things I need to take into account when leaving my apartment at all.
I said before that I'm eating fine and that just turning to others and not trying to live on my own easily makes me not have to worry about food. However, even getting food is not necessarily nearly as simple as you're making it out to be.
No, as I'm not what's commonly termed a hypochondriac
That's not me being a hypochondriac. That's a short description of some of what I deal with in terms of my sensory issues and the migraines that are caused by them. Sensory issues are very real, as are migraines.
I've no doubt
You seem to allow them to rule your life to an unhealthy degree though in my opinion
Are you familiar with the concept of 'just trying to get on with things despite the difficulties'?
Try it, it might be a revelation to you
Many of us have tried just ignoring our difficulties or pushing ourselves too hard when there are some limitations, only to have had it backfire....I don't think having real limitations is the same thing as 'letting' them rule ones life, that is like telling someone missing a leg they are letting their lack of limb prevent them from waking.
Why the assumption anyone who explains the limitations they have, does not make an effort to try getting on with things as best they can?
People who lose a limb frequently learn how to walk again, with an artificial limb - I'd say that involved a hell of a lot more mental and physical exertion than making your self something to eat!
It's the discrepancy between what this person actually will and won't act on that gives them away here - House burning down? - Oh I can leave the house for that;
Make oneself something to eat? - I can't do that - in this case it's far more about 'what I can be arsed to do' than anything else, otherwise why no 'freezing' when the house is on fire? It doesn't add up really does it? How does she know for sure how she'd react if the house were on fire? She had no doubt about it thoguh - yes I could do that she said
Saying 'So you couldn't leave the house if it was on fire??' implies the person is stupid if they wouldn't, hence they say 'Of course I can do that!' but by their own logic there's no reason why they should be able to do it as in their own words they said they often freeze with too many choices etc - why doesnt this hold for evacuating the house too then?
One is a necessity or I'll burn to death, the other not really and if someone else can be co-opted to do it for me all the better
People can fool themselves all they like but the truth is plain to see here
I can continue the questioning to make it more obvious as the more I question the more the contradictions will be exposed
Last edited by nessa238 on 26 Apr 2012, 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
26 Apr 2012, 6:35 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
SkyHeart wrote:
my care giver helps me to put out rubish. Also I can come in here and post. I have autistic disorder. people with asperger can and they can stil have dificuties.
My partner often puts the rubbish out as I can't be bothered or I forget
I don't dispute that people have these diffficulties; I just think they could probably do more if they just pushed themselves a little bit harder - this works for me anyway
Pushing ones self to hard though can be quite detrimental as well. Also not everyone has a partner to take out the trash when they are too lazy. And as I said not wanting to do something out of laziness is not what is being discussed here so it can't really be compared to that.
Yes lets not make any comparisons - we might get some awkward answers mightn't we?
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,474
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
26 Apr 2012, 6:37 pm
nessa238 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
We weren't talking specifically about cooking though; just finding something to eat so that you don't starve to death
Can you walk down the street without disassociating? Can you walk through a doorway into a grocery store without having an instant headache? Do you deal with pain that makes you unable to walk to get yourself water to swallow advil with? Can you walk down the street at night and see what's in front of you without the headlights from the cars blinding you and making you unable to even notice if someone is walking your way?
These are only a few of the things I need to take into account when leaving my apartment at all.
I said before that I'm eating fine and that just turning to others and not trying to live on my own easily makes me not have to worry about food. However, even getting food is not necessarily nearly as simple as you're making it out to be.
No, as I'm not what's commonly termed a hypochondriac
That's not me being a hypochondriac. That's a short description of some of what I deal with in terms of my sensory issues and the migraines that are caused by them. Sensory issues are very real, as are migraines.
I've no doubt
You seem to allow them to rule your life to an unhealthy degree though in my opinion
Are you familiar with the concept of 'just trying to get on with things despite the difficulties'?
Try it, it might be a revelation to you
Many of us have tried just ignoring our difficulties or pushing ourselves too hard when there are some limitations, only to have had it backfire....I don't think having real limitations is the same thing as 'letting' them rule ones life, that is like telling someone missing a leg they are letting their lack of limb prevent them from waking.
Why the assumption anyone who explains the limitations they have, does not make an effort to try getting on with things as best they can?
People who lose a limb frequently learn how to walk again, with an artificial limb - I'd say that involved a hell of a lot more mental and physical exertion than making your self something to eat!
it's the discrepancy between what a person actually will and won't act on that gives them away here - House burning down? - Oh I can leave the house for that;
Make oneself something to eat? - I can't do that - in this case it's far more about 'what I can be arsed to do' than anything else, otherwise why no 'freezing' when the house is on fire? It doesn't add up really does it?
Saying so you couldnt leave the house if it was on fire implies the person is stupid if they wouldnt hence they say of course I can do that but by their own logic there's no reason why they chould be able to do it as in their own words they said they often freeeze with too many choices etc - why doesnt this hold for evacuating the house too then?
One is a necessity or I'll burn to death, the other not really and if someone else can be co-opted to do it for me all the better
People can fool themselves all they like but the truth is plain to see here
I can continue the questioning to make it more clearer as the more I question the more the contradictions will be exposed
Ok well you're coming off as really judgemental, and this is not the appropriate place to ask provoking questions about peoples difficulties so you can expose what you see as contradictions and essentially tell us all to just 'get over it.' while refusing to consider anyone elses perspective....and its kind of seeming like that is what you're doing.
_________________
We won't go back.
26 Apr 2012, 6:38 pm
nessa238 wrote:
You seem to allow them to rule your life to an unhealthy degree though in my opinion
You might disagree, but I find it far healthier and far more fulfilling to have a life including a relationship, ways that I can help others, things I enjoy doing, and things I study, than spending my life in front of a toilet vomiting because of having ignored my sensory issues.
Quote:
Are you familiar with the concept of 'just trying to get on with things despite the difficulties'?
Try it, it might be a revelation to you
Try it, it might be a revelation to you
Very. I'm also aware that just trying to get on with things despite the difficulties doesn't mean ignoring that the difficulties exist. This seems to be the part you're not understanding.
I don't stay locked in my apartment, refusing to interact with the world, despite the fact that it would be understandable for someone with my difficulties to do so (at least according to multiple professionals). I'm working on trying to support myself. I have a degree. I'm hoping to go back to grad school and get a PhD. I share what I go through, and allow others who cannot share it to have the option of people understanding more.
If I'm supposed to pretend I don't have issues and do everything the average American does, no I'd kill or seriously injure myself accidentally rather quickly, likely killing others with me, in a car accident from forcing me into a car when its unsafe for me to drive.
However, if I'm someone who's trying to be successful in my own way, knowing that I have things I can't do, then you can take into account the fact that I have 8 years tutoring experience at age 22, had a bachelor's degree before turning 21, have been in a relationship for 5 years, and that I regularly interact with people who have no clue about what I'm going through even while I'm interacting with them.
I'm not someone to hide from my challenges. I'm not someone to lock myself away despite the fact that it might be easier and that I might want to sometime. I'm also not someone to hide my challenges, because I'd far prefer making this a better world for myself and everyone else with disabilities, rather than pretend that I'm either like they are or inferior. I'm neither like they are or inferior.
It's just that, going on despite my challenges means not pretending they're not there, it means finding ways to work around the ones that I can work around, including asking others for help when I need it.
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