Why Aspergers isn't even a disorder

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19 Jun 2012, 8:23 am

again_with_this wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

Okay, so what are you trying to do by narrowing AS down to one common trait?

I'm trying to dispel the notion that someone can't be an Aspie if they have no other apparent disabilities other than the social clash with neurotypicals.

But... they can't be an Aspie if all they have is social clash with neurotypicals. They might be SPD, they might be PDD-NOS, but they're not going to be diagnosed with AS. If you only have one or two parts of the triad of impairments, you can't meet the criteria.

Quote:

Where can I take some of these test regarding social ability?

http://www.aspietests.org/index.php

Also, if you read the thread I linked, it links a video. That's not so much an objective test, as all you can really do is compare your results to other people who did the same thing.

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19 Jun 2012, 8:24 am

again_with_this wrote:

Do you find your special interests, in and of themselves, to be disabilities?

Are your sensory difficulties ever so bad that you can't function at all?

Hey now - disability doesn't mean "can't function at all." It can mean a lot of things, but often means your functioning is impaired.

My special interests can be impairments when I spend all day doing something related to them, spend too much money on them, and neglect other more important things I should be doing.

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19 Jun 2012, 8:34 am

Wow, I feel like I'm interjecting on something here....

Anyways, about the original post:

Dizzee wrote:

I think socialising isn't really a necessary feature to live. Humans are just too much connected to each other. I would probable live a better life in an empty island where I could make my own rules rather than here where you have to be a part of something to survive. We aspergers are self-dependant.

Well, actually, loneliness does contribute to health problems.

I would think that most people with AS would want social interaction. It was found that contrary to those diagnosed with autism, most with AS do want to socialize, though they lack the skills. Those with autism seemed more interested in objects than people.

But our lack of social skills causes most to have problems being around people, so many with AS are lonely. And loneliness is found to cause health problems. Social support and inclusion improves mental and physical health in general.

Babies who are separated from their mother at birth have failure to thrive, and their emotional and intellectual development is severely affected. Also, in old age, if one spouse dies, there is a higher chance that the other spouse will die within a year.

I'm sure there is plenty of other research showing the value of social relationships, and how it affects health.

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Your Aspie score: 93 of 200
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You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

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19 Jun 2012, 8:37 am

again_with_this wrote:

Regardless of how the "officials" wish to classify things, the concept of Asperger's must be real, and it must have some distinction from HFA for all of these people to suspect that they have Asperger's.

Washi wrote:

I've never differentiated between the two.

That's cool, but the other fellow with HFA, under its current definition, said there were some differences. And I'd have no objection to the idea that Asperger's is a form of autism, as it is. I was talking about differences in the forms of autism, or the way they manifest.

Edit: Fixed quoting mistake.

I think some people could fit in either category - the difference could really be which doctor you go to. Mine does not think I am on the border, but on the more heavy-symptom side of HFA. Also most tests I've taken, including online tests which I can compare with many people's scores on this forum, put me at a more severe point on the high functioning part of the spectrum. For example, this one PDD severity test puts me at 201 - most people here who took it in that thread scored around 100-130, and I think one other person got over 200. A good number scored around 50, and some also scored between 130-160. On this one facial expression test, I only got 4 faces out of 36 correct - with that test you have to guess what the facial expression is given only someone's eyes, and it's multiple choice - for me on all of the questions, none of the faces seemed to fit the multiple choice answers.

But there is no solid line between HFA and AS - there is a very hazy border. Some individuals such as myself may fall more into one than the other, but many are in between - everyone I've ever spoken to or read about has had a different manifestation of autism, so it seems natural to me to assume that there does not -need- to be one single thing linking all aspies or auties, because then autism would be a much more specific disorder.

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19 Jun 2012, 8:39 am

Verdandi wrote:

again_with_this wrote:

Do you find your special interests, in and of themselves, to be disabilities?

Are your sensory difficulties ever so bad that you can't function at all?

I agree with this. My main special interest takes up almost all of my time and a significant part of my income - it is also the only source of income. I neglect a lot of things due to it, such as housework, friends, family, pets (meaning, paying attention to them - other people feed them and all that), etc.

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19 Jun 2012, 8:44 am

deltafunction wrote:

I would think that most people with AS would want social interaction. It was found that contrary to those diagnosed with autism, most with AS do want to socialize, though they lack the skills. Those with autism seemed more interested in objects than people.

I don't think this generalization is true - I think wanting to socialize is more common among people diagnosed with autism than is acknowledged.

I am okay with socializing and I don't hate talking to people (or I wouldn't be here at all) but I don't really find socializing to be a huge priority in my life. I spend most of my time alone, and I find all kinds of things more interesting than people.

I also don't recall ever feeling anything I would describe as "loneliness." I am actually kind of worried that my lack of desire to be around people regularly might be a problem that I can't detect, because I know people tend to be healthier and live longer when they're in long term relationships, for example.

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19 Jun 2012, 8:45 am

Verdandi wrote:

again_with_this wrote:

Do you find your special interests, in and of themselves, to be disabilities?

Are your sensory difficulties ever so bad that you can't function at all?

Disability doesn't mean "can't function at all," you're correct. But it would also imply a difficulty in functioning, or something detrimental. Your special interests can become impairments if they become obsessions, and I suppose an obsession would be a disability if it overtakes one's life. But overpowering obsessions that can become disabilities, I feel, don't need to be present for someone to have Asperger's.

It would seem like the disability that all aspies share is the social one. So when they say "well, Asperger's isn't just about the social stuff," in the most general sense, it is.

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19 Jun 2012, 8:51 am

Verdandi wrote:

I don't think this generalization is true - I think wanting to socialize is more common among people diagnosed with autism than is acknowledged.

Yeah, I don't disagree, it was just something that research has found. Maybe their methods of researching weren't effective to identify the want to socialize in (LFA) autism. Maybe it's because their attention seemed to be on objects more, but they just didn't want to look at people?

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You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

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19 Jun 2012, 8:51 am

Verdandi wrote:

PDD-NOS, apparently, is also a form of autism, or will be treated as such next year.

SPD seems to revolve around a lack of interest in socializing, not the inability to actually understand it and to be able to do it if one wanted.

Social clash, as in not picking up social cues, being out of step with others socially, not being able for it all to come naturally, and knowing one is different from the others but not knowing why or what it is they're doing "wrong," that is Asperger's as best as I can tell, and I've seen no evidence to the contrary.

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19 Jun 2012, 9:02 am

again_with_this wrote:

Then you'd probably be wrong. The symptoms you have must together cause significant impairments. When I talk about special interests, I am talking about something I want to do all day every day, and the only thing I really want to talk about. It's actually stressful when I'm in conversations that my interests aren't relevant to, because all I really want to do is change the subject - and I often find a way to do so. I didn't even learn that talking about my interests was a problem until I was 27.

Quote:

It would seem like the disability that all aspies share is the social one. So when they say "well, Asperger's isn't just about the social stuff," in the most general sense, it is.

You don't seem to want any conclusion but this one. You keep shifting what the relevant words mean so this is the only one that is common among everyone diagnosed with AS, and that AS is about social stuff - but as explained over and over, there is far more to it than social stuff. You don't need one central impairment to describe autism, and if you have to broaden your definition until it basically means "every symptom is really a social difficulty" then your definition is meaningless.

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19 Jun 2012, 9:11 am

Verdandi wrote:

again_with_this wrote:

It would seem like the disability that all aspies share is the social one. So when they say "well, Asperger's isn't just about the social stuff," in the most general sense, it is.

That's a fair point. I just don't know how many with the AS brain-wiring necessarily have additional non-social issues. Though those debilitating non-social issues may be part of the AS brain-wiring, I don't think a lack of them would exclude someone from possibly having the AS brain-wiring that causes the disconnect with the NTs.

But you're saying it must meet a triad of impairments, two of which are not related to socialization. Where can I find this list?

I'm glad you're taking the time to answer my questions. When people point me to the general diagnostic criteria list, nothing on it seems to suggest the impairments and deficiencies have to go beyond the social disconnect.

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19 Jun 2012, 9:17 am

Triad of impairments, and the stuff most directly related to social stuff is actually two of the impairments. I thought I had indicated this - one is social, another communication. The third is repetitive and ritualistic behaviors.

http://www.awares.org/static_docs/about ... cSection=3

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19 Jun 2012, 9:28 am

Verdandi wrote:

Thanks for that. The triad of impairments on that site seems to refer to autism in a general sense.

Now I understand that Asperger's is a form of autism, but a distinction is made, leading to the specification of Asperger's as a condition in its own right.

From this, it would seem that the the absence of other non-social disabilities would not necessarily rule out Asperger's.

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19 Jun 2012, 9:35 am

Its not even wrong

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19 Jun 2012, 9:50 am

again_with_this wrote:

An absence of at least one of these non-social criteria would rule out Asperger's:

Quote:

(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

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19 Jun 2012, 9:50 am

Quantum_Immortal wrote:

Its not even wrong

Thank you Wolfgang Pauli.

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