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Sweetleaf
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26 Jul 2012, 9:26 am

b9 wrote:
i think he is psychotic and not ASD.
i saw the "footage"(antiquated term) of him looking bereft of awareness of his position in reality (in the court scene) and i think his decision to do what he did must be caused by some delusory process which is devoid of realization of the consequences that occur as a result of his actions in reality.

i do not identify with him in any way, and if he was faking that behaviour in the footage i saw, then he is a master of deception and that does not seem ASD to me.

whatever be the case, there is nothing that can excuse his actions because even i (who is quite affected by autism) have a deep seated sense of what is right and wrong, and he seems to not have that sense.


If that is true then not guilty by reason of insanity makes the most sense, though he certainly should not be sent back out into the public. But if he indeed was not aware of his actions or consequences due to delusion or a psychotic state then that would have to be considered. If you want revenge on the guy via death penalty or life in prison I'd stick to the 'he was aware, knew it was wrong and did it anyways' idea.


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26 Jul 2012, 9:33 am

I'm not sure why anyone would want to associate him with being on the spectrum. It wouldn't surprise me if he had used it as an excuse by now, seems to be a common excuse these days for murdering people and such. I've not known this lack of empathy to be associated with autism, so I'm not sure why its always thrown out there. I've not looked a great deal into it, but by the sounds of things he was some kind of psychotic.



Sweetleaf
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26 Jul 2012, 9:35 am

Colinn wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would want to associate him with being on the spectrum. It wouldn't surprise me if he had used it as an excuse by now, seems to be a common excuse these days for murdering people and such. I've not known this lack of empathy to be associated with autism, so I'm not sure why its always thrown out there. I've not looked a great deal into it, but by the sounds of things he was some kind of psychotic.


So it's bad if people assume he was autistic.......but fine to just assume he's psychotic? hate to break it to you but people that struggle with psychosis probably don't appreciate being categorized that way either.


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b9
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26 Jul 2012, 9:40 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
b9 wrote:
i think he is psychotic and not ASD.
i saw the "footage"(antiquated term) of him looking bereft of awareness of his position in reality (in the court scene) and i think his decision to do what he did must be caused by some delusory process which is devoid of realization of the consequences that occur as a result of his actions in reality.

i do not identify with him in any way, and if he was faking that behaviour in the footage i saw, then he is a master of deception and that does not seem ASD to me.

whatever be the case, there is nothing that can excuse his actions because even i (who is quite affected by autism) have a deep seated sense of what is right and wrong, and he seems to not have that sense.


If that is true, then not guilty by reason of insanity makes the most sense, though he certainly should not be sent back out into the public. But if he indeed was not aware of his actions or consequences due to delusion or a psychotic state then that would have to be considered. If you want revenge on the guy via death penalty or life in prison I'd stick to the 'he was aware, knew it was wrong and did it anyways' idea.

you are very correct. i never mentioned what punishment should be meted out to him.
i do not think he should be killed, and that is because he is a soul in an out of control mind.
i simply think he should be hospitalized for the rest of his life if it takes that long to restore his sense of true reality.
i would not ever let him back into the public, but i would consider how i could make his incarceration more acceptable to him.
he is an injured spirit who caused damage, and he can not be allowed to walk in society, but i would ensure that the way of life i impose upon him (if i was an authority) is acceptable to him.



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26 Jul 2012, 9:53 am

You'd need to know his reasons to determine if he was delusional or not. "I killed all of these people because they were secretly reptilian aliens masquerading as humans that are planning to take over the world!" would point to such. Detachment from reality and all that.

However, onset of a delusional disorder generally precludes the planning and execution of such an event.



Mayel
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26 Jul 2012, 11:36 am

Dillogic wrote:
You'd need to know his reasons to determine if he was delusional or not. "I killed all of these people because they were secretly reptilian aliens masquerading as humans that are planning to take over the world!" would point to such. Detachment from reality and all that.

However, onset of a delusional disorder generally precludes the planning and execution of such an event.

Delusional disorders can be non-bizarre, too (but I'm inclined to think that his are bizarre). And I doubt they preclude planning and execution since when you're delusional your're delusional only in certain events which means not all the time (delusions rest on certain features which aren't necessarily always present in your environment). And even if you're delusional, you're driven by your delusion to do what you believe should be done.
Delusional disorders earliest onset is 30 years of age and they are more likely to be extroverts but a reason for delusions can include social isolation.


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Dillogic
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26 Jul 2012, 11:40 am

If they're based on paranoia, yes, they can be non-bizarre, though it's still taken to the illogical extreme in comparison to something like "hate" (personally, I think most rampage killings are based on "hate").

RE: planning,

The acute onset of psychosis generally removes the functioning a person has, functioning in regards to basic self-care like feeding oneself to driving a car. Planning an event for some time and organizing it all points more towards a chronic condition (the cause of social isolation), like one or more of the personality disorders and/or an ASD. If he had chronic psychosis, it would have been picked up by now (most likely).



Matt62
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26 Jul 2012, 1:04 pm

He might be, but I doubt it. That is usually what the prosecution will say "He IS faking, because he is vile & evil".
Newer info, that I am not sure has been properly vetted yet, has suggested he sent stick drawings of violent acts to his college. Could be bogus, but if true, Paranoid Schizophrenia becomes more likely.
NOW most mentally ill people are non-violent, BUT ( and this is a big one)...
There are certain forms of MI that do DEFINITELY feature violence. Ampethamine Psychosis is one. Paranoid Schizophrenia is another ( and its sufferes retain more function than other Schizoform illnesses. Saying MOSTMI people won't commit violent acts is true, but there are extreme exceptions. Mass murders like this are even radically crazier than predatory Serial Killers (which is an extreme form of sociopathy plus arrested emotional developmen in general) . Sorry, I do not think this person is a Sociopath (this is the correct term).

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26 Jul 2012, 1:10 pm

I must say the first thing that struck me as soon as i saw his face is that he looked like a typical aspie. I think the "diagnosis" of anders brevik may have swayed his decision to go on his rampage in all honesty. Media reporst and have shown that he showed an interest in Anders writings before he commited his crimes.


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26 Jul 2012, 2:38 pm

Me too, as soon as I saw his eyes, in his first pic that they released, I thought he had aspie eyes. Then the info I read about his education and intelligence etc made me more certain that he could have AS, and then, I read that before he took off to go to the cinema, he played the same song over and over again. Then I was even more certain that he could have AS.
I think that he also might be psychotic or something along those lines too. I don't think that he killed all these people due to lack of empathy, lack of empathy is not an emotion strong enough to trigger a murder spree. Psychosis on the other hand is an excellent motivator.



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26 Jul 2012, 2:53 pm

The video of his on CNN shows him giving a presentation while in high school. He looked I don't know lost and extremely shy. After watching that I'm thinking somethings definitely wrong with him.



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26 Jul 2012, 3:25 pm

What does anyone know about james eagan holmes?

A video of him in court, a video from 6 years ago, and a few minor details that are sketchy at best describing what was planned and carried out.

We have been presented with little information... no one knows anything at this point...

ABC has been feeding the rest of the media with blatant lies, there's a huge fake story surrounding and surfacing about the joker shooting up a batman premiere.

When I think we all know that this is a deep rooted plan/plot and I think it is clear by now that he is the RIDDLER

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Eagan_Holmes

The validity of the resources and information presented are not reliable.

Not to mention the amount of drugs, medications, herbs etc. that inhibit and exhibit the giant array and spectrum of the human brain domain.

Through ingestion/injection, biomarkers (other jazz related to genes and genomes) you can display a person in any way the domain and range of human capabilities is possible.

I don't believe I can be hypnotized, but anyone who has been to a college hypnotist knows how mad the people were when they came down not realizing what they had done.


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26 Jul 2012, 3:43 pm

I read the thread title as John Holmes! :oops:

Sorry. As you were. :roll:



Mayel
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26 Jul 2012, 3:56 pm

lostmyself wrote:
The video of his on CNN shows him giving a presentation while in high school. He looked I don't know lost and extremely shy. After watching that I'm thinking somethings definitely wrong with him.

There's actually a full video of this presentation on youtube (4 minutes) and he does looks shy but also unprepared. He read almost all he was saying from the screens. But I wouldn't have concluded that there's something wrong with him if I had just seen that video without any knowledge about the future.
Don't know if it's a true story but a prison guard reported that he repeatedly asked "Why am I here?" and that he had no recollection of what had happened/what he did. Prison guards and inmates think he's faking his behavior.


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26 Jul 2012, 3:59 pm

jonny23 wrote:
aghogday wrote:
jonny23 wrote:
The firearms ban in 1994 where ban for cosmetic reasons. Rifles like the mini-14 that shoot the same round at the same rate as the AR 15 where not included. If you can show me a practical difference between these rifles I'll listen to that argument. Personally I think the rise has more to do with media attention.


I don't see a practical difference, the ban in 1994 apparently did not go far enough to be effective per your point.


Than this point you made earlier is contradictory.

aghogday wrote:
There are some experts that have suggested that the legalization of the sale of semi-automatic weapons in the US, have had an impact in the uptick of the body count of rampage killings in the last couple of decades, but it's hard to prove cause and effect, other than more bullets provided in a shorter period of time do have the potential to injure more individuals. That's common sense.


aghogday wrote:
However, it is only common sense that neither weapon can be legally purchased and used in a rampage killing if they are banned for sale, per the linked article below.

The question I think is what is the potential cost/benefit of banning the weapons. Is the public willing to sacrifice their freedom to purchase the weapons, if it means lives could effectively be saved. And there is also some economic and environmental impact per the gun business and environmental protection efforts generated by the federal excise taxes from selling the weapons.


He used guns but he had explosives. Not having access to firearms would not have stopped him

aghogday wrote:
It's not just that though, there is a paranoia about the government that runs in a core element in the US, I'm not even sure if one can refer to it as a political party, that has grown deeper for some since the feared "Hussein" Obama has been elected per propaganda generated by conspiracy theorists like Info Wars, Tea Party hosted radio talk shows, Glenn Beck and others, that is evidenced more popular in rural areas, where there is a legitimate use for guns other than target practice and defense; hunting.

Some of them are actually going as far as to suggest that the government is behind the rampage killing.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201207/what-we-have-learned-about-rampage-killings


I'm not sure what this has to do with it. I love my government. I guess my bottom line points are these two

I have legitimate reasons to own guns to defend myself and my family and to provide food. (where I live these are real concerns) and owning lots of different types of guns I can tell you they are all about the same lethality wise when used by someone who's familiar with the gun. My WWII enfield is a bolt action rifle famous for rapid fire. Look up the mad minute.

Beside, after they ban the semi autos they'll go after the bolt guns as "sniper rifles" then the shotguns as "street sweepers" ect. If you believe in an outright ban on firearms then we'll have to agree to disagree but there is no logic in banning semiauto firearms or magazine capacities because anyone that knows how to run their gun is plenty fast regardless.

This guys pretty good but with a little practice pretty much anyone can do this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x3lOZ4y ... re=related

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin


Australia, after Bryant Martin, went after all semi-automatic rifles and shot guns; I don't see that possibility in the US, but it addresses your points, as I am not a gun expert.

I'm not an expert in guns and rampage killings, so I reported the opinions of those that have studied the issue. It is obvious that the shooter had the potential of killing people with bombs, but he chose the avenue of the AR15 instead. There is no way to say what he would have used if the alternative of the AR15 would not have been available or a gun like that, but a potential ban would have resulted in fewer avenues of choices and as well as easy access to the weapons.

Plenty fast and faster, makes a difference in body count. Particularly with someone like Holmes that didn't likely spend a great deal of time on the shooting range.

But again, it's a matter of cost and benefit, and for the experts to determine, of which I am not qualified to offer an opinion on my own, other what is common sense, and it is common sense that a gun that delivers more bullets in a shorter period of time, is going to lead to more deaths, than one that doesn't, if the choice of the shooter is going to be a gun. Most rampage killers have been evidenced as shooters.

My point on the gun conspiracies and government conspiracies was directed at society, and not intended as a remark toward you as an individual in any way.

The propaganda makes it less likely that there will be support for gun control. Without support for gun control from enough people in the general public, change in gun laws are unlikely.



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26 Jul 2012, 4:21 pm

He could have it but I'm not sure. He appears to be shy or not wanting to make eye contact with people. He looks bored as hell and appears to be daydreaming. If he does have Aspergers, let's hope the NT's won't think of all Aspies as evil killers.


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