What Would The World Look Like if Aspies Were the Majority?

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12 Jan 2013, 4:48 am

I've been trying to imagine what the world would be like if aspies and autistics made up the majority of the population and the NT's were the "disordered" ones. What would social sciences and politics look like? What would "normal" social interactions consist of? What would be better, and what would be worse about the world? What sorts of traits do the NT's have that would be considered part of a disorder as compared to "normal" aspies? It's something my limited black and white thinking can't grasp, what do you think it would look like?


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12 Jan 2013, 5:21 am

I think it's a very difficult question to answer because both we and NTs wouldn't be the same if the demographic was inverted. We're all heavily influenced by having to live in an NT world and they're influenced by always having been the majority.

Maybe we would have less problems with communication because it wouldn't be an alien form of communication nor as much of it. On the other hand, maybe not being pushed by NTs to communicate like them we'd all be on our own and not communicate at all.



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12 Jan 2013, 5:50 am

Interesting question, I've been thinking of that myself. Probably the accommodations for us would be as invisible as the current accommodations directed at NTs are.
There's a humorous take on seeing neuro-typicalness as a disorder here -> http://isnt.autistics.org/



http://isnt.autistics.org/dsn.html wrote:
DSN-IV (The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of 'Normal' Disorders)

Disorders Usually First Evident in Infancy, Childhood, or Adolescence

666.00 Neurotypic Disorder


The essential features constitute a severe form of Invasive Developmental Disorder, with onset in infancy or childhood.

Diagnostic criteria for 666.00 Neurotypic Disorder

At least eight of the following sixteen items are present, these to include at least two items from A, one from B, and one from C.

Note: Consider a criterion to be met only if the behavior is abnormal for the person's developmental level.

A. Qualitative impairment in independent social interaction as manifested by the following:

(The examples within parentheses are arranged so that those first mentioned are more likely to apply to younger or more handicapped, and the later ones, to older or less handicapped, persons with this disorder.)

(1) marked delusional sense of awareness of the existence or feelings of others (e.g., treats a person as if he or she were an extention of himself; behaves as if clairavoyant of another person's distress; apparently projects own concepts and needs onto others)

(2) extreme or abnormal seeking of comfort at times of distress (e.g., constantly comes for comfort even when ill, hurt, or tired; seeks comfort in a stereotyped way, e.g., cries, whines needs demands for attention whenever hurt)

(3) constant or mindless imitation (e.g., always wave bye-bye; copies mother's domestic activities; mechanical imitation of others' actions whenever perceived to be in context)

(4) constant or excessive social play (e.g., always actively participates in simple games; prefers group play activities; involves other children in play only as long as the other children are exactly like themselves with no differences "mirrored images")

(5) gross impairment in ability to make peer friendships (e.g., obsessive interest in making peer friendships with other Neurotypics; despite interest in making friends and afore mentioned delusion of clairavoyance, demonstrates lack of understanding for those who are different and an obsessive rigidity for social convention, for example, constantly seeks attention/positive reinforment while staring mocking or laughing at others while they stim and rock and remain mute)

B. Qualitative impairment in verbal and nonverbal communication, and in imaginative activity, as manifested by the following:

(The numbered items are arranged so that those first listed are more likely to apply to younger or more handicapped, and the later ones, to older or less handicapped, persons with this disorder.)

(1) blatent overuse of all modes of communication, such as communicative babbling, facial expression, gesture, mime, or spoken language

(2) markedly abnormal nonverbal communication, as in the use of eye-to- eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, or gestures to initiate or modulate social interaction (e.g., anticipates and enjoys being held, does not stiffens when held, constantly looks at the other person or smiles when making a social approach, compulsively greets parents or visitors,insists on invasively stares into the eyes of others in social situations)

(3) excessive imaginative irrelevant activity, such as playacting of adult roles, fantasy characters, or animals, lack of interest in computers or other logical fullfilling pastimes

(4) marked abnormalities in the production of speech, including volume, pitch, stress, rate, rhythm, and intonation (e.g., gregarious grandious tone, overly emotional or syrupy melody, or overcontrolled pitch)

(5) marked abnormalities in the form or content of speech, including stereotyped and repetitive use of speech (e.g., immediate mindless or mechanical repetition of NT peers' latest 'in' or catch phrases) (e.g., "whatever" to mean "I am saying I disagree with you but I want you to be upset by my saying so in this way"); idiosyncratic use of words of phrases (e.g., "are you dissing me?" to mean "don't disrespect me"); or frequent irrelevant remarks (e.g., starts talking about the behavour of autistics at a table nearby during a meal at a restaurant)

(6) marked impairment in the ability to refrain from initiating a conversation or once initated to sustain a full thought during conversation with others, despite adequate speech (e.g., unable to stay ontopic/on thought due to the interjections from other Neurotypics)

C. Markedly restricted repertoire of activities and interests, as manifested by the following:

(1) inability or lack of understanding for or interest in stereotyped body movements, e.g., hand-flicking or -twisting, spinning, head-banging (except for during certain types of rock concerts), complex whole-body movements

(2) persistent lack of awareness or inability to perceive parts of objects (e.g., seeing 'a windmill' but failing to see the existance of the many beautiful finite parts which comprise the whole object, oblivion to feelings of texture of materials, spinning wheels of toy cars) or has an attachment to unusual objects (e.g., insists on driving around in a BMW, wearing Rolex watches, carrying a cellular phone or briefcase)

(3) marked oblivion to changes in aspects of environment, e.g., when a vase is moved from usual position

(4) unreasonable insistence in sameness in others in precise detail, e.g., insisting that exactly the same social behaviours always be followed when shopping

(5) markedly restricted range of interest and a preoccupation with one narrow interest, e.g., interested only in status quo climbing, impressing friends, or in pretending to be smarter or better than they are.

D. Onset during infancy or childhood.

Specify if childhood onset (after 36 months of age).

Author: Shelley from Kalamazoo



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12 Jan 2013, 6:39 am

That was funny :D


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Vectorspace
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12 Jan 2013, 7:41 am

I've thought about this, and my conclusion was: not so different.

OK, one thing:
The German language would be different. We have two translations of "you" (in singular form); one ("Sie") is quite formal and aloof, and the other one ("du") is for people that you know personally, but also sometimes used among colleagues.

This means: whenever you use the "you" pronoun, you implicitly state what your relationship to the other person is like.

Among adults, it's up to the older person to offer a "du" basis, but when an adult talks to a kid or an adolescent, the adult addresses the younger person as "du", while the younger person is still expected to address the older person as "Sie".

This is confusing when you are between 16 and 22, because when someone addresses you as "du", you don't know which rule applies – that is, whether to address him/her as "du" or as "Sie".

In French, it's similar with "tu" and "vous", but I'm not sure if the rules are identical (probably not).



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12 Jan 2013, 7:59 am

Probably like this [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLk4wThr2wk[/youtube]


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12 Jan 2013, 9:00 am

I think that it would be a similar state to the United Federation of Planets in the Star Trek franchise. We would thus be a type II civilisation rather than the medieval barbarism that exists now. Our economic systen would be aa resource based economy as mentioned by Jacque Fresco and similar to his Venus Project. I wonder what pejoratives for allistics would be used if any? :idea:



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12 Jan 2013, 10:27 am

Or . . . maybe higher quality control, but less total things done.



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12 Jan 2013, 10:29 am

pretty bleak.



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12 Jan 2013, 10:37 am

Well if I was running it, all the NTs would be rounded up and sent off to live somewhere far away from me and anyone wanting
to exhibit overtly NT behaviour would be joining them

A country-sized place modelled on Disneyland and MacDonalds would be built for all the NTs - they'd be quite happy there

There would be lots of rules

Eg people who jump up and whoop in ear-splitting tones = sent to NT Land
People who latch onto the latest stupid fashions like those hats with animal ears and faces on
and 'onesies' - they'd go
People with slogan car stickers - they'd go
People who take inflatables to festivals and throw beer around - same
Anyone who sees fighting as an alternative to debate - same
Anyone who ridiculed/bullied others - same

The list goes on and would be added to on a daily basis

All banking and trade would go online so we didn't have to interact with stupid shop assistants
(even aspie ones)

People would be able to book seaside, forests, mountains, islands etc to themselves so no one else was able to go on them
while they were there - anyone could do this, it wouldn't cost anything just book a ticket

If someone murdered another person they'd have a choice - death or go and live in 'NT Land' (most aspies would choose death)



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12 Jan 2013, 11:16 am

Vectorspace wrote:
I've thought about this, and my conclusion was: not so different.

OK, one thing:
The German language would be different. We have two translations of "you" (in singular form); one ("Sie") is quite formal and aloof, and the other one ("du") is for people that you know personally, but also sometimes used among colleagues.

This means: whenever you use the "you" pronoun, you implicitly state what your relationship to the other person is like.

Among adults, it's up to the older person to offer a "du" basis, but when an adult talks to a kid or an adolescent, the adult addresses the younger person as "du", while the younger person is still expected to address the older person as "Sie".

This is confusing when you are between 16 and 22, because when someone addresses you as "du", you don't know which rule applies – that is, whether to address him/her as "du" or as "Sie".

In French, it's similar with "tu" and "vous", but I'm not sure if the rules are identical (probably not).


I speak some of both French and German and have worked in France but I'm not a native speaker of either language so take what I say with a pinch of salt. The rules are pretty much the same - you will always address a senior as "vous" until they invite you otherwise # whereas you will always address your peers as "tu" except possibly, like in German, at the office (although this isn't as much of a "thing" now as it used to be I am led to believe there are still traditional workplaces where everyone uses the formal "vous" - my workplace was *very* relaxed so a "vous" was never heard except when speaking to a group of people). Some French women will like it if a man who is trying to romance them addresses the woman using "vous" when they first meet.

# This reminds me of speaking to a very nice, drunk, old, Parisian man in a bar who kept on insisting I use "tu" during our strange conversation using a combination of my pidgin French and his pidgin English.



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12 Jan 2013, 11:21 am

Child rearing might be a bit dicey. Aspies struggle mightily with the demands of raising children due to the near constant demands of supervising and caring for kids and the adult aspie need for daily recovery time. This goes whether the kids are autistic or NT. Read in the parenting section for a sense of this.

This struggle is made worse when the parent is stimulation adverse and the child is stimulation seeking.



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12 Jan 2013, 12:11 pm

invisiblesilent wrote:
I speak some of both French and German and have worked in France but I'm not a native speaker of either language so take what I say with a pinch of salt. The rules are pretty much the same - you will always address a senior as "vous" until they invite you otherwise # whereas you will always address your peers as "tu" except possibly, like in German, at the office (although this isn't as much of a "thing" now as it used to be I am led to believe there are still traditional workplaces where everyone uses the formal "vous" - my workplace was *very* relaxed so a "vous" was never heard except when speaking to a group of people).

Peers? Up to what age?

In German, it's actually even more subtle.
On the street, I still address a stranger as "du" if he/she seems to be about my age or younger (in the case of "she", I use "Sie" when in doubt, so I don't appear creepy).
For other students, it's always "du". This mostly applies to TAs, too.
For sales assistants, I always use "Sie" even if they are younger than me (though some shops use "du" as a marketing strategy).
At the workplace, it's often "Sie" for the boss and "du" for colleagues, although some bosses also offer "Sie".

Most computer science professors use "du" for everyone, while most math professors only offer it to grad students. Engineering professors seem to use "Sie" all the time.
It's so complicated... :)

Quote:
Some French women will like it if a man who is trying to romance them addresses the woman using "vous" when they first meet.

That doesn't apply to German at all. Using "Sie" nowadays implies: "We don't have any kind of personal relationship."
But as far as I know, "Sie" used to be more common in the past centuries – to the point that even married couples used it to show their respect for each other.



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12 Jan 2013, 1:17 pm

Vectorspace wrote:
invisiblesilent wrote:
I speak some of both French and German and have worked in France but I'm not a native speaker of either language so take what I say with a pinch of salt. The rules are pretty much the same - you will always address a senior as "vous" until they invite you otherwise # whereas you will always address your peers as "tu" except possibly, like in German, at the office (although this isn't as much of a "thing" now as it used to be I am led to believe there are still traditional workplaces where everyone uses the formal "vous" - my workplace was *very* relaxed so a "vous" was never heard except when speaking to a group of people).

Peers? Up to what age?

In German, it's actually even more subtle.
On the street, I still address a stranger as "du" if he/she seems to be about my age or younger (in the case of "she", I use "Sie" when in doubt, so I don't appear creepy).
For other students, it's always "du". This mostly applies to TAs, too.
For sales assistants, I always use "Sie" even if they are younger than me (though some shops use "du" as a marketing strategy).
At the workplace, it's often "Sie" for the boss and "du" for colleagues, although some bosses also offer "Sie".

Most computer science professors use "du" for everyone, while most math professors only offer it to grad students. Engineering professors seem to use "Sie" all the time.
It's so complicated... :)

Quote:
Some French women will like it if a man who is trying to romance them addresses the woman using "vous" when they first meet.

That doesn't apply to German at all. Using "Sie" nowadays implies: "We don't have any kind of personal relationship."
But as far as I know, "Sie" used to be more common in the past centuries – to the point that even married couples used it to show their respect for each other.


Thank gawd I live in an English speaking country!
We dont have to worry about that crap.

Studied Spanish ( which like German, French, and most European languages has that same dichotomy), which also has the formal you - and an informal you. Formal is usted (Oo-stead), and the informal tu.

English did have the same distinction centuries ago with "you" as the formal "you", and "thou" and the informal "you". This is why the Quakers made a thing out of calling everyone "thou"- to stress their belief in equality.

But then "thou" dropped out of the language some centuries ago. So the formal "you" now does double duty as both formal and informal.

This is great because we English speakers dont have to worry about the relative status of the person we are addressing- and dont have to mess with which kind of 'you' to call them. But there is a small linguistic price. In most European languages the formal "you" is also the plural "you" ( the one you use when addressing a crowd of people when you're standing at a mic). English lacks that distinction of a plural and a singular 'you' -which is sometimes needed.

So I dont blame those folks in America's deep South who have reinvented the plural "you" for English by using the phrase "you-all".



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12 Jan 2013, 1:37 pm

I think it would be really weird. I don't want a world with full of autistics, because then there would be no social rules, everyone would live for their own good with their own opinions and such. The world would be a big mess.

AspieOtaku wrote:
Probably like this [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLk4wThr2wk[/youtube]


You think aspies would build this or NT's who are only good at doing dirty jobs(sarcasm)?


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12 Jan 2013, 1:45 pm

Mordor?