Speculation concerning childhood memories

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eric76
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14 Mar 2013, 6:23 pm

In a rather unscientific sampling, it would appear that Aspies tend to have memories from earlier ages than most people.

I just ran across this (admittedly nothing close to a peer reviewed journal article, but interesting nonetheless):

How far back can you remember? When earliest memories occur

...

Our first palpable recollections — from vital, early mileposts to seemingly random snapshots of our toddler years — stick for good, on average, when we reach 3 1/2 years old, according to numerous past studies. At that age, the hippocampus, a portion of the brain used to store memories, has adequately matured to handle that task, experts say.


I've seen a number of comments from people with Aspergers/HFA who have memories from much younger than that. I can remember several things going back to at least 1 1/2 years and possibly earlier. For example, I remember my playpen. I remember going to the hospital and looking through a window at a newborn baby who I am pretty sure was my younger brother who is 1 1/2 years younger than me. I remember crawling and learning to walk.

This is nothing more than a speculative question, but if there really is such a difference in the earliest childhood memories, is it possible that the hippocampus in those with Aspergers/HFA might have a much better developed hippocampus at a considerably earlier age than others?



whirlingmind
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14 Mar 2013, 7:20 pm

Sorry, you're not allowed, it's not peer reviewed, serious research. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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Nambo
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14 Mar 2013, 7:46 pm

We just had a thread on this where many of us related our earliest memories, mine was when I was 1
One fella remembered being in the womb.

I knew an NT Woman who couldn't remember anything from before she was 18, imagine that!



eric76
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14 Mar 2013, 8:07 pm

Nambo wrote:
We just had a thread on this where many of us related our earliest memories, mine was when I was 1
One fella remembered being in the womb.

I knew an NT Woman who couldn't remember anything from before she was 18, imagine that!


I remember the thread (or one very similar to that). I started this one as a separate thread specifically for speculation about the causes and to find out if anyone is familiar with any research on the subject.

It appears that in Autism, various parts of the brain have considerably more neurons than usual. I don't know if having more neurons has any effect on the development of that part of the brain; for example, whether it might speed development or slow development. It may even be that it the higher numbers of neuron might lead to very different rates of development depending on what part of the brain.

In any event, it appears quite likely that most people do not remember much, if anything, from early childhood. My sister's memories begin at a much older age than mine -- she was rather surprised when she found out that I can remember things at so young an age.

It certainly seems reasonable to suspect that the hippocampus may develop much earlier in many who are Autistic. Or it may be something else entirely.



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14 Mar 2013, 9:00 pm

I'm always a little skeptical of people who claim to remember things from that young an age. If you imagine what it's like to be in the womb enough times over a period of time, that imagining can seem as or more 'real' than most of your actual memories, and can be mistaken for one. I'm not claiming to know that that is what is happening in these cases, but I suspect it is. While the above article is not exactly scientific, there have been many scientific experiments and studies which show memory to be quite inaccurate and subject to editing.



auntblabby
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14 Mar 2013, 9:45 pm

i remember somewhere between the ages of 1 and 3, i was standing in my crib, which was located next to my mother's bed. she was asleep in her bed at the time, and i wanted to be closer to her so i crawled out of my crib and jumped upon her bed, which awoke her with a start, she exclaimed "WHA??! !" she then hastily put me back in my crib then shoved my crib up against the far wall away from her bed. i remember starting to bang my head against the wall in anger. when i was about 3 i remember standing in my crib [now in my own little bedroom] and looking at the black&white tv set through a partially open door- i remember seeing the trapezoidal symbol of NAPA auto parts in a commercial and hearing a low-pitched tv announcer's voice.



mikassyna
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14 Mar 2013, 9:51 pm

I remember my diaper being changed. I remember that my diaper had safety pins and that the pins would sometimes stick me. I remember my sister around to help change my diaper and my getting angry because I didn't want her to help change my diaper.



rapidroy
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14 Mar 2013, 11:41 pm

There have been a few threads on this recently, its well documented about aspies having better long memories, auntblabby, i recall seeing the Chevy C/K pickup ads with Bob Seger's Like a rock blasting, I could have not have been more then more then 2 years old, maybe 1 as I can recall the picture grain, the truck pictured and the home I was in. No wonder I love Seger and old Chevy trucks! "Like a rock, 24/7 365 days a year" as they used to say.



eric76
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15 Mar 2013, 3:23 am

rapidroy wrote:
There have been a few threads on this recently, its well documented about aspies having better long memories, auntblabby, i recall seeing the Chevy C/K pickup ads with Bob Seger's Like a rock blasting, I could have not have been more then more then 2 years old, maybe 1 as I can recall the picture grain, the truck pictured and the home I was in. No wonder I love Seger and old Chevy trucks! "Like a rock, 24/7 365 days a year" as they used to say.


Yeah, but how many threads asking why the difference?



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15 Mar 2013, 3:55 am

My earliest memory is from I was 1. It's always been with me, it's not something I have imagined a lot and gotten the idea I remember. I never forgot it. There are other things I know have happened because my family member s have told me so, and because I know us I can imagine what it was like, but I can't remember it. There is no mistaking the two.

When I was a child I never felt like a child. I felt older than my years. (That has since changed but that's irrelevant.) I thought the other children were usually extremely childish and that they sounded stupid and slow. I wonder if that sensation of being older than your peers on the inside has anything to do with it? If you're mentally older then it's not so weird that you do remember. It would've been interesting to know if those who remember their first three years felt older, younger or the same as children.

Emotions are important too, most memories are remembered because they are emotional memories in some way.


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eric76
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15 Mar 2013, 4:26 am

I've been doing some searching for more information about the hippocampus and Autism. Interestingly enough, the material I have seen so far seems to indicate that there are differences in the hippocampus and the amygdala, both of which are involved in memory.

For example, from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15514404:

Quote:
Am J Psychiatry. 2004 Nov;161(11):2038-44.
Hippocampus and amygdala volumes in parents of children with autistic disorder.
Rojas DC, Smith JA, Benkers TL, Camou SL, Reite ML, Rogers SJ.

...

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:

Structural and functional abnormalities in the medial temporal lobe, particularly the hippocampus and amygdala, have been described in people with autism. The authors hypothesized that parents of children with a diagnosis of autistic disorder would show similar changes in these structures.
METHOD:

Magnetic resonance imaging scans were performed in 17 biological parents of children with a diagnosis of DSM-IV autistic disorder. The scans were compared with scans from 15 adults with autistic disorder and 17 age-matched comparison subjects with no personal or familial history of autism. The volumes of the hippocampus, amygdala, and total brain were measured in all participants.
RESULTS:

The volume of the left hippocampus was larger in both the parents of children with autistic disorder and the adults with autistic disorder, relative to the comparison subjects. The hippocampus was significantly larger in the adults with autistic disorder than in the parents of children with autistic disorder. The left amygdala was smaller in the adults with autistic disorder, relative to the other two groups. No differences in total brain volume were observed between the three groups.
CONCLUSIONS:

The finding of larger hippocampal volume in autism is suggestive of abnormal early neurodevelopmental processes but is partly consistent with only one prior study and contradicts the findings of several others. The finding of larger hippocampal volume for the parental group suggests a potential genetic basis for hippocampal abnormalities in autism.


and from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20494265:

Quote:
J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 2010 Jun;49(6):552-60. doi: 10.1016/j.jaac.2009.12.023.
Amygdala and hippocampus enlargement during adolescence in autism.
Groen W, Teluij M, Buitelaar J, Tendolkar I.

...

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:

The amygdala and hippocampus are key components of the neural system mediating emotion perception and regulation and are thought to be involved in the pathophysiology of autism. Although some studies in children with autism suggest that there is an enlargement of amygdala and hippocampal volume, findings in adolescence are sparse.
METHOD:

We measured amygdala and hippocampus volume in a homogeneous group of adolescents with autism (12 through 18 years; n = 23) and compared them with an age-, sex-, and IQ-matched control group (n = 29) using a validated automated segmentation procedure in 1.5-T magnetic resonance images. All analyses were adjusted for total brain volume.
RESULTS:

Repeated-measures analysis revealed a significant group x hemisphere x brain structure interaction (p = .038), even when corrected for total brain volume. Post-hoc analysis showed that the right amygdala and left hippocampus were significantly enlarged (p = .010; p = .015) in the autism compared with the control group. There were no significant correlations between age and amygdala or hippocampus volume.
CONCLUSIONS:

The abnormal enlargement of the amygdala and hippocampus in adolescents with autism adds to previous findings of enlargement of these structures in children with autism. This may reflect increased activity of these structures and thereby altered emotion perception and regulation. Our results could therefore be interpreted in light of developmental adaptation of the autistic brain to a continuous overflow of emotional learning experiences.


That those differences might explain earlier memories is rather murky from what I've seen so far.



whirlingmind
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15 Mar 2013, 5:59 am

I do have incredibly accurate memory of childhood events myself. But I don't believe this is only applicable to Aspies. My relative has schizophrenia and she remembers being one year old in her cot and being terrified of a big doll she was given.


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Nambo
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15 Mar 2013, 6:00 am

eric76 wrote:

Quote:
The finding of larger hippocampal volume in autism is suggestive of abnormal early neurodevelopmental processes



That those differences might explain earlier memories is rather murky from what I've seen so far.


Doesn't the above "early development" quote possibly explain earlier memories?

Now, not so much memory related, but early intelligence related, when I first went to school, I was just four years old, though Grandfather took me on the first day to show me where it was, after that, I used to make my own way to school and back at just 4 years old.

Now when I compare that with my younger NT sister, at four years old, she had to be kept on one of those child harnesses like a dog on a leash that would run into the road if not controlled.



Ellingtonia
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15 Mar 2013, 6:44 am

I've had two thoughts regarding this question. The first is that maybe we shouldn't be asking why some people remember these very early years, but why most people forget. What is the process in the brain that causes these childhood memories to be forgotten, and why does this process not occur in some people?

My next thought is that maybe there is no such process, and it isn't that we forget being very young children, but that we never form the memories in the first place. In other words; I can't remember being 2 years old and I can't remember being 3 years old, but could the 3 year old me remember being 2 years old? Obviously young children do have memories, after all they learn a lot at that age, and they can usually remember what they ate for lunch yesterday etc., but perhaps whatever mechanism converts these memories of events into long term memories doesn't begin until a certain age (in most people).



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15 Mar 2013, 6:47 am

I was quite surprised to find out many people have no memories before age 4. While my earliest verifiable memory was at age 3 I have memories that I am positive from when I was a baby. One in particular I was sitting in a park in the summertime and the feeling was good beyond words. I recently revisited the neighbourhood that we moved out of when I turned 1 and to my shock, the park was there exactly as I remembered it. I can talk with pre-schoolers very well because I still remember being 3-4 years old like it was yesterday: the crazy hairdo my teachers had, the gym where I loved to run around by myself and the black doors with the gray handles. People tell me all the time I'm just making this up but two years ago I went and verified everything and my memory was dead on. I can even remember how the pre-schooler was the only place where smoking was not allowed at the time and what a relief that was.



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15 Mar 2013, 7:12 am

I don't remember anything before the age of 3 really. I only have one or two very quick, vague memories, but otherwise I don't remember anything. My memories get more vivid as I got older, but I remember more of when I was at school than at home, but I can remember more of being at home when I was around 8 or 9 and up.

A lot of NTs I know do remember their first day of school, and some even have memories of preschool.


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