Aspie Entitlement Syndrome
I've noticed a lot of adult-Asperger posts on here where the person says their pursuit of a formal diagnosis is NOT so that they can apply for benefits and handouts -- .
Um...hello? Did you actually not see the paragraph that immediately preceded the one you've quoted?
I also said, and I quote myself here, using bold font for the important parts you've overlooked:
"And as for those who do rely to any degree on financial assistance and other free assistance -- even then.....maybe they really do need it? There's nothing wrong with that either. There IS a genuine need for many people on the spectrum because NT life IS genuinely too difficult. Not everyone needing all the help they can get is a no-good scrounger, let it be remembered.
You are accusing me of saying an insulting thing to people who get a diagnosis for purpose of applying for assistance when I ACTUALLY SAID that there IS A LEGITIMATE NEED FOR THAT TOO.
You misinterpreted my post which was IN DEFENCE OF EVERYONE, I defended both those who need financial services genuinely, and I defended those who happen to simply say it hadn't crossed their mind, they just want to know at last what it is they've struggled with.
And by the way, again to illustrate that you completely misunderstood what I was saying and took my words out of context, I AM one of those older undiagnosed people who could probably seriously need a little bit of help now that I've struggled through a f*****g hellish life trying to make it on my own. I'm 51 and have had no help, assistance, acknowledgement and compassion at all.
You're talking to one.
.
I am sorry that you misunderstood me because you seem to have gotten upset with me. I am sorry that I upset you but I assure you, you completely misunderstood me and accused me of very mean and harsh things that I actually spoke of in the opposite way that you said I did. And I never accused you of anything. I just used your statement to say the exact same thing you are saying in that we all need help and if we can get it it should not be denied us.
So sorry if you felt like I accused you or offended you but I assure you it was not my intention at all. But like I said, I am so happy for you that you have help because I don't and I have to live with that every day.
Last edited by skibum on 10 Aug 2013, 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BirdInFlight
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Sorry OP. I kind of went off on a tangent here based on another poster's comment which I highlighted in my last post.
Yes, and you completely and utterly, 100 per cent read my post incorrectly.
See my other reply to you.
Wow. Just wow. I was pointing out the variations of reasons why people pursue diagnosis and the variations of reasons why they do or do not pursue help after that. My entire post was in defence of all and any category of adult autist.
You know, I'm starting to wonder why I f*****g bother with this place. The as*holes and the misunderstandings and the grabbing onto the wrong idea and skewering the person for something they didn't even SAY the way that person is reading it.
f**k this.
.
.
AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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Sorry OP. I kind of went off on a tangent here based on another poster's comment which I highlighted in my last post.
Yes, and you completely and utterly, 100 per cent read my post incorrectly.
See my other reply to you.
Wow. Just wow. I was pointing out the variations of reasons why people pursue diagnosis and the variations of reasons why they do or do not pursue help after that. My entire post was in defence of all and any category of adult autist.
You know, I'm starting to wonder why I f***ing bother with this place. The as*holes and the misunderstandings and the grabbing onto the wrong idea and skewering the person for something they didn't even SAY the way that person is reading it.
f**k this.
.
.
Last edited by skibum on 10 Aug 2013, 12:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
btbnnyr
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I am all about self-improvement, learning new skills, improving eggsisting skills.
For me, social and communication skills are hard to improve, but I think that there has been significant improvement over the past couple of years.
Some other skills are super easy to improve, like my autism-native skills, and I know that I have access to big improvement in those over short time at any time when I need to.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
BirdInFlight
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I've noticed a lot of adult-Asperger posts on here where the person says their pursuit of a formal diagnosis is NOT so that they can apply for benefits and handouts -- .
Um...hello? Did you actually not see the paragraph that immediately preceded the one you've quoted?
I also said, and I quote myself here, using bold font for the important parts you've overlooked:
"And as for those who do rely to any degree on financial assistance and other free assistance -- even then.....maybe they really do need it? There's nothing wrong with that either. There IS a genuine need for many people on the spectrum because NT life IS genuinely too difficult. Not everyone needing all the help they can get is a no-good scrounger, let it be remembered.
You are accusing me of saying an insulting thing to people who get a diagnosis for purpose of applying for assistance when I ACTUALLY SAID that there IS A LEGITIMATE NEED FOR THAT TOO.
You misinterpreted my post which was IN DEFENCE OF EVERYONE, I defended both those who need financial services genuinely, and I defended those who happen to simply say it hadn't crossed their mind, they just want to know at last what it is they've struggled with.
And by the way, again to illustrate that you completely misunderstood what I was saying and took my words out of context, I AM one of those older undiagnosed people who could probably seriously need a little bit of help now that I've struggled through a f*****g hellish life trying to make it on my own. I'm 51 and have had no help, assistance, acknowledgement and compassion at all.
You're talking to one.
.
I am sorry that you misunderstood me because you seem to have gotten upset with me. I am sorry that I upset you but I assure you, you completely misunderstood me and accused me of very mean and harsh things that I actually spoke of in the opposite way that you said I did. And I never accused you of anything. I just used your statement to say the exact same thing you are saying in that we all need help and if we can get it it should not be denied us.
So sorry if you felt like I accused you or offended you but I assure you it was not my intention at all. But like I said, I am so happy for you that you have help because I don't and I have to live with that every day.
First of all, I'm not getting help.
I have not yet pursued a formal diagnosis because I'm afraid. I'm afraid of how it being on official record may or may not screw up even the sad little life of independence that I've carved out for myself in a lifetime of struggling to think I'm supposed to be like everyone else.
If I do get that diagnosis, it may or may not open me up to some much deserved help. But from what others say, it's more like "not." It's probably pretty unlikely that I too, just like you, will be approved for any help. I too am high functioning -- in fact I'm probably not even going to pass the criterion, so hard have I fought to develop all the masks that make me "pass for normal" by this stage in life.
When I say I deserve that would-be financial help, I say it as an abstract concept, not as a comment on something real that's now happening.
I will probably be as turned-away for help as you have been.
As for your other point, you TOTALLY seized on one thing I said, and took it out of context, not understanding that in using a phrase like "no good scroungers" I was extrapolating and mocking the cruel attitude of the OP, reminding him that "NOT EVERYONE" who needs help is the kind of person THE OP would call a scrounger, according to the tone of his opinions.
I used that term not because that's what I think of people who get financial help. I used it because that seemed to be what the OP was calling them in not so many words, and I was defending it and telling him off for that outlook.
You posted your comment and quoted one fragment of my post as if you were thinking I was attacking the recipients of help, and that I was on the side of the OP.
The wording of the post in which you quoted me totally speaks of misunderstanding the context of what I said, and i don't know why you're trying to back-pedal on that now.
I'm the last person to agree with the OP's view that adult autists just give up and want something for nothing, because I'm probably one of those people who sorely need something at this stage and probably aren't even going to get it.
And yes I'm upset. I'm upset with the whole thing. Everything.
btbnnyr
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The main reason for me to want to improve my social and communication skills is not to become moar moar moar NT, but to use these improved skills to do what I want to do in life, including getting other people to do what I want them to do in my interest, which is something that NTs do a lot, but they might not like my blunt way to saying it.
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Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
Thelibrarian
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Why would you think that? I've got fairly severe AS, and have never taken a handout in my life. Nor do I blend in seamlessly; I had to create my own little niche. My point is that I have done it, and a lot of other aspies have too.
As far as "not wanting to" goes, part of growing up is realizing that things aren't always as we want them to be. Though I love my down-time, when I can do what I want, I spend a lot of time doing things I need to do rather than want to do. I think a lot of other aspies can say the same.
I don't often agree with Tyrion, but I agree with him on this. I'm curious as to why you don't.
Last edited by Thelibrarian on 10 Aug 2013, 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pray tell, if everyone is entitled to "free stuff", and no one should ever have to provide for their own basic needs, just who is going to pay for it all?
Thelibrarian, Who is paying for all of our Military ventures and the war on terror? How are we able to afford having military bases all over the world? How can we afford the war on terror? Why can't our society afford to take care of everyone's basic needs but we can afford our Military ventures and the war on terror?
Thelibrarian
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Joined: 5 Aug 2012
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,948
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Pray tell, if everyone is entitled to "free stuff", and no one should ever have to provide for their own basic needs, just who is going to pay for it all?
Thelibrarian, Who is paying for all of our Military ventures and the war on terror? How are we able to afford having military bases all over the world? How can we afford the war on terror? Why can't our society afford to take care of everyone's basic needs but we can afford our Military ventures and the war on terror?
Our tax dollars--as well as the Chinese who lend us money--are paying for our ventures in the so-called war on terror, as well as every other government service. Since those tax dollars were taken from somebody who earned them, shouldn't they have a say in where their money goes? Or should people who don't earn anything have the right to confiscate the property of those who do work hard?
You stole the 'exaggeration' out of my mouth! Blending isn't really the coolest thing though, how becoming a unique facet?
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btbnnyr
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Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
I also spend lots of time doing things that I need to instead of want to, eggspecially it sucks when I wake up in morning and go over things that I need to do that day and one of undesirables is on list and yuck, but I still have to get up and do it.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
Would you rather be taken over by North Korea, or made to work for your keep? Even the homeless can make an effort to rise out of poverty. They could hunt for food, save up for a food vendor's, game processing, and trappers licences. After they do that, use good ol fashined citizen's tactical annexation (aka, squatting), and take over 5 different things: a warehouse, a warehouse with a bunch of valuables (anything you want) still inside, a motel, a junkyard, and a quarry with a massive amount of broken earth machines. If you have squatted and annexed all this stuff, you have just gone from rags riches, (WARNING: ONLY THE INVISIBLE OR HOBOS WITH TRUE GRIT CAN ACCOMPLISH SUCH FEATS OF SQUATTING)
_________________
comedic burp
I've noticed a lot of adult-Asperger posts on here where the person says their pursuit of a formal diagnosis is NOT so that they can apply for benefits and handouts -- .
Um...hello? Did you actually not see the paragraph that immediately preceded the one you've quoted?
I also said, and I quote myself here, using bold font for the important parts you've overlooked:
"And as for those who do rely to any degree on financial assistance and other free assistance -- even then.....maybe they really do need it? There's nothing wrong with that either. There IS a genuine need for many people on the spectrum because NT life IS genuinely too difficult. Not everyone needing all the help they can get is a no-good scrounger, let it be remembered.
You are accusing me of saying an insulting thing to people who get a diagnosis for purpose of applying for assistance when I ACTUALLY SAID that there IS A LEGITIMATE NEED FOR THAT TOO.
You misinterpreted my post which was IN DEFENCE OF EVERYONE, I defended both those who need financial services genuinely, and I defended those who happen to simply say it hadn't crossed their mind, they just want to know at last what it is they've struggled with.
And by the way, again to illustrate that you completely misunderstood what I was saying and took my words out of context, I AM one of those older undiagnosed people who could probably seriously need a little bit of help now that I've struggled through a f*****g hellish life trying to make it on my own. I'm 51 and have had no help, assistance, acknowledgement and compassion at all.
You're talking to one.
.
I am sorry that you misunderstood me because you seem to have gotten upset with me. I am sorry that I upset you but I assure you, you completely misunderstood me and accused me of very mean and harsh things that I actually spoke of in the opposite way that you said I did. And I never accused you of anything. I just used your statement to say the exact same thing you are saying in that we all need help and if we can get it it should not be denied us.
So sorry if you felt like I accused you or offended you but I assure you it was not my intention at all. But like I said, I am so happy for you that you have help because I don't and I have to live with that every day.
First of all, I'm not getting help.
I have not yet pursued a formal diagnosis because I'm afraid. I'm afraid of how it being on official record may or may not screw up even the sad little life of independence that I've carved out for myself in a lifetime of struggling to think I'm supposed to be like everyone else.
If I do get that diagnosis, it may or may not open me up to some much deserved help. But from what others say, it's more like "not." It's probably pretty unlikely that I too, just like you, will be approved for any help. I too am high functioning -- in fact I'm probably not even going to pass the criterion, so hard have I fought to develop all the masks that make me "pass for normal" by this stage in life.
When I say I deserve that would-be financial help, I say it as an abstract concept, not as a comment on something real that's now happening.
I will probably be as turned-away for help as you have been.
As for your other point, you TOTALLY seized on one thing I said, and took it out of context, not understanding that in using a phrase like "no good scroungers" I was extrapolating and mocking the cruel attitude of the OP, reminding him that "NOT EVERYONE" who needs help is the kind of person THE OP would call a scrounger, according to the tone of his opinions.
I used that term not because that's what I think of people who get financial help. I used it because that seemed to be what the OP was calling them in not so many words, and I was defending it and telling him off for that outlook.
You posted your comment and quoted one fragment of my post as if you were thinking I was attacking the recipients of help, and that I was on the side of the OP.
The wording of the post in which you quoted me totally speaks of misunderstanding the context of what I said, and i don't know why you're trying to back-pedal on that now.
I'm the last person to agree with the OP's view that adult autists just give up and want something for nothing, because I'm probably one of those people who sorely need something at this stage and probably aren't even going to get it.
And yes I'm upset. I'm upset with the whole thing. Everything.
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain. I am just seeing this post now after I PM'ed you. I guess sometimes things get a little confusing with timing. But you explaining and talking it through helps so much.
I am sorry that you are not getting help. I wish it was easier for all of us to get it.
I too am afraid of what an official diagnosis could do and even if it were easier to get one I would be scared of getting it.
I knew you did not mean everyone who needed help was a no good scrounger but I thought maybe you thought I did and I thought that maybe if you thought I did maybe that meant that I really was one for trying to get help.
And like I told you in my PMs my coming across that I was attacking you was purely a misunderstanding and a huge error in just how I wrote it. I feel so horrible about that. I really really do. I told you this as well already but I was just using that isolated text as a springboard to help people understand that it's okay for people to want to get diagnosed even if all they want is the benefits and they have every right to do that if they want to. It was never ever meant as a response to your post. I am still new to forums and still learning how the back and forth works and I just made a huge error, That is truly all it was. I was not even thinking about you at all at that point. I just saw it as a great stand alone sentence and thought it would be a way to help explain that situation.
I don't know what back pedal means. I mean I know what it means on my bike but I don't what else it means. But I am just telling you what I was thinking and how I came to write what I wrote. I am being completely 100% honest about it and I am really upset about what I did. I honestly had no idea that I did any of the things you said I did until after you said them. I make a lot of mistakes. I am not always good at communicating. I make errors that hurt a lot of people because I don't know that what I said came across a very different way than I intended it. It makes me scared to talk to people sometimes and even to write sometimes. I don't know if you believe me or not but I am not lying at all. I have told you every single thing that I can think of and remember so that you know exactly what I was thinking and how I wrote what I wrote. I will always listen and try to learn when I make a mistake like this because I know that I make these kinds of mistakes. But if you knew me personally you would know how distraught this is making me and how much of a huge misunderstanding this really was.
I can't make you believe me if you don't want to but I hope that you will. I don't want to be scared about posting stuff. And I don't want you to be mad at me or hate me or think that I am a completely different kind of person than I am. That happens a lot too and that's really hard. Sorry, I can't stop crying.
Last edited by skibum on 10 Aug 2013, 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm both an adult with Aspergers, and a parent to an autistic child, and I find the OP's statement to be quite unfair.
It is very discriminatory to use such sweeping statements about any group, whether parents, or adults on the spectrum, or anyone else for that matter. I would expect that kind of uninformed nonsense from the NT press, but not from someone who claims to be one of us.
First off as a parent I don't obsess about a cure for my son, he is wonderful just as he is, and I wouldn't change a single hair on his head. Yes as a parent I worry about him, and fight for all the help we can get him, but we don't want to change him (my NT wife agrees with me on this). With the right early intervention it is quite possible for my son to make a good life for himself despite his problems. He needs help to cope with life as he is, he doesn't need turning into an NT. We also don't fool ourselves into thinking that there will ever be a magic pill that will cure him anyway so why build our hopes up for no reason. I mean they still haven't found a cure for cancer after decades of research, what makes anyone think that they will find a cure for autism?
As for myself, I was diagnosed 6 months ago at the age of 50. Not to gain benefits, but because I was curious to find the truth behind some comments my sons ASD consultant made about me (he more or less said he thought I was on the spectrum). Now that I have the diagnosis it makes a lot of sense of my life, and explains some very embarrassing moments
I don't however feel any sense of entitlement, if anything I feel uncomfortable with my ASD advocates attempts to get me on PIP (UK disability benefits). I know of quite a few other adult Aspies in the UK who feel the same way as me, so I'm not alone in this. I've lived half a century without giving in to my problems, if things got hard, I just tried harder, thats the way our generation coped with things. There was no diagnosis of Autism or Aspergers available to us we just assumed it was our own weakness that made us the way we were. Sure it was tough, and maybe more knowledge of what made us this way would have helped us to plan our lives better, but we survived.
I have spent my entire life pushing myself to overcome my problems and improve myself, and I'm proud of the fact that I'm a very well respected private art teacher where I live as a result of that. I might not make a lot of money out of it, but I have a huge amount of job satisfaction, and relative peace of mind. I'm also proud of being a married man with three beautiful and intelligent children.
And you know what? If I do decide to go ahead and claim PIP to help supplement the low wage I'm on then maybe the advocate was right - maybe I do deserve it after so many years of struggling along by myself
That's not to say that there isn't an element of the Aspie population who do have the 'entitlement' mentality. But then the entitlement culture is just as rife in the NT world, so what makes our community any different? I'm not justifying this, just pointing out that it is not a specifically ASD problem, and to say it is, quite frankly is discriminating against the ASD community. To say that most adult Aspies are only interested in entitlement and don't want to self improve is just as far of the mark as it is to say so about NT's.
Apart from curiosity, my other motive for seeing if I was on the spectrum, was so that I could teach my son that his Autism isn't an excuse to just give up. That instead of waiting for a magic pill, he can make something of his life with what he already has. And if he needs some help along the way, then so be it, self improvement sometimes needs a helping hand to get there.
If society subscribes to the OP's point of view, then my son will be written off before he has even had a chance to try - because adult ASD sufferers will be automatically seen as scroungers with an entitlement complex.
_________________
Autistic dad to an autistic boy and loving it - its always fun in our house
I have Autism. My communication difficulties mean that I sometimes get words wrong, that what I mean is not what comes out.
I have friends with children on the spectrum who don't want a cure. Their argument being (which I agree with) that it'll change the child's personality; but no-one knows how their personality will change. Which is why I don't want a cure.
I have also come across parents who get a diagnosis for their child and then want benefits, etc. The first thing they say is "my child has now been diagnosed with Autism. What am I entitled to?" But you don't get benefits just because you have Autism - you either have to be unable to work or care and /or mobility needs due to having a disability. I did come across someone who was accused of wanting a diagnosis for her daughter so she could get benefits for her. That's actually the impression I get too - she thinks her 2 year old son is on the spectrum and by getting benefits for him, she won't have to work.
Which isn't what PIP is for. And what would happen if you didn't have AS and were on a low wage? You wouldn't be able to claim disability benefits to top up your wage. And rightly so - it's for the extra costs incurred by having a disability.
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