Aspie Entitlement Syndrome

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Here are some things that have been called entitlement on this forum:

* Wanting a place to live
* Wanting food to eat
* Wanting a workplace that accommodates one's sensory and/or social needs/difficulties
* Applying for or receiving disability income
* Applying for or receiving food stamps

"Entitlement" is a word of the sort frequently referred to as a "dog whistle."* It's a code phrase that appears to refer to people wanting more than they want to work for, but is often used to refer to people who need assistance just to meet their own basic needs. It is frequently used as such on this forum, in fact. And sometimes by people who appear to have a genuine sense of unearned entitlement themselves - for example, they feel entitled to tell people how to live their lives, or compare experiences to such people to prove that these people are somehow "lazy" or "entitled" themselves. Or they complain about how so-called "entitlement programs" are draining the economy even though this is supported by essentially no facts ever.

In another thread, a poster expressed disbelief at the notion that an autistic person should receive accommodations in the workplace. That the idea of providing a private, quiet room for an autistic person to work in was somehow beyond the point of acceptability, even though such accommodations should be provided, at least in the US per the Americans with Disabilities Act.

I can think of bigger wastes of time on a disability forum than interrogating whether or not the people on it are just entitled or actually have real problems, but it'll take some effort.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

Wanting a place to live
* Wanting food to eat
* Wanting a workplace that accommodates one's sensory and/or social needs/difficulties
* Applying for or receiving disability income
* Applying for or receiving food stamps

What are the people who pay for these things entitled to?

Should people like you decide how much of their earnings they can keep?

Elaborate.

Right now your logic sounds like this: because the taxpayers get nothing out of supporting the weak and those who cannot fit into the workplace due to the way society works , the taxpayers should not have to pay for it.

Would you rather have your country flooded with homeless disabled people literally starving to death, because you get no profit out of helping them?

Last edited by Jonov on 10 Aug 2013, 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No. They decide by voting.

That's why democracy doesn't work except with nearly pure capitalism. For social justice systems to work, you have to be able to separate voting from benefit programs. Otherwise, you get Detroit or Greece.

The only way you can have a sociaist system with comprehensive benefits is if you have a strong central government in place that is able to minimize the number of leachers on the system. That is not really compatible with true democracy. So you have Finland with a socialist system and a decent economy that pays for itself. Why? Because the proper incentives are in place to ensure that the maximum number of people are contributors and the minimum number of people are leachers. Most Western countries would scream and whine about the lack of civil liberties needed to create that situation, however.

There's an old saying: you can't have your cake and eat it too. Every economic system comes with tradeoffs. For extreme liberty and democracy, you must have a small welfare state; even the U.S.'s is too big for a system with the amount of personal liberty the U.S. has, which is why we are faced with bankruptcy. For a large welfare state, you have to have adequate controls in place to limit leachers. I am in favor of the latter type of system but can also see the logic of a libertarian capitalist state. What I really hate are people who want both their freedom AND their free stuff. You CAN'T have both. No way.

You can't say "don't you dare tell me to change to make myself more employable" AND "give me my free stuff; I'm entitled; society should support the 'disabled' blah blah blah." That's not a sustainable system. A system that provides good benefits HAS to be able to control its citizens lives to minimize freeloaders, and that probably means telling most aspies to get off their asses, fix their bad behaviors, and get to work. And probably telling people with bad values or genetics either not to have or raise children.

the Netherlands says hi, we have a very good welfare system, which for most people has certain rules for finding work or contributing a bit, and it is completely funded trough taxes, having the current government deciding what that tax is percentage based on income, and what the monthly amount of money is that disabled and people out of work receive (yes jobless people also have rights here 75% of their last earned income for the first 6 months (rules are changing on this)).
The truly disabled do not have to work at all in most cities but are offered various ways to keep being active such as volunteer work or social workplaces, the disabled get tested by doctors to investigate the severity of their disability and their chances on getting a job when they apply for that kind of income, that income can go up to 1200 euro/month ( including rent / health insurance benefits), so why don't you give me logical reason why your country is in more debt than mine if these systems destroy the economy?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/22/graphic-the-top-10-european-economies/

Oh and with your final sentence you just completely destroyed any chance of being taken seriously, what century are you stuck in ?

First, you guys deported a lot of your unsavory citizens to South Africa two centuries ago. The white South Africans are the scum of the earth, which is why the Netherlands is such a great place. You literally deported all your scum. Unfortunately, America has attracted scum ever since Christopher Columbus. We get all the people other countries don't want. That includes my grandmother, who carved a path across Europe from the Czech Republic to Spain of multiple children with multiple men, ending with an American service member, who fathered my father. She ended up basically murdering my grandfather 40 years later. So, even if you hate me, I am a great example of my point.

Second, the Netherlands has a great education system. America's is atrocious.

Third, you do have programs to put people back to work. We really don't.

Fourth, it could just be that your demographics are different, so you tend to have fewer potential leachers to begin with (see point 1). You definitely have a different immigration system. While yours is based on potential contributions to society, such as education, etc., ours is based on family ties (and no, this has nothing to do with race; there are lots of great, smart, educated people from the Latin American and Eastern European countries from whence most of our immigrants arrive; they just aren't the ones who come here because they have a fine life in their home countries). And we all know that leachers tend to reproduce far more prolifically than producers, due to being less responsible and more impulsive.

And no, this is not coded racism. My parents--who had 10 kids and are white as sour cream--definitely fall into the category of prolifically breeding leachers.

I doubt your fear for socialism has done your people a lot of good then, I was already baffled to hear that a personal coach can cost an average of 100 dollar / session(which I think pretty much every HFA/AS needs, I have 8 sessions/month myself), while here its also comes from budgets for the disabled trough insurances ( health insurance for me costs 120e/month and the first 350e/year is personal risk).

Your health insurance system is likely one of the worst existing in western countries, and having a psychologist here or going to the hospital is as normal as being able to do grocery shopping, going to see a doctor for a consult doesn't even cost you anything as it is fully covered ( only specialists use the personal risk of 350e/year until its used up and after that its covered).

The point is though that people are a product of their environment, and if the government doesn't try to fit disabled people into society they will inevitably fail to do so, that said your countries social security system would need a complete overhaul, to even come close to a functioning system, and I still don't think that autistic people who give up are to blame for feeling that society failed them, because quite frankly it has failed them for generations.

I bring on the heavy artillery on you because your initial point sounds to me as treating symptoms rather than working on the actual causes and that is something I truly despise as it is counterproductive, you cannot blame the players when the game is rigged.

And here is your problem- you think everyone receiving an entitlement is a freeloader. I'm sure you'll come back and feed me some BS about that not what you mean or it's not what you said, but I look at it this way- while there may be a problem you chose to attack 1% of the population who have 70% unemployment rate. That's what makes you a douche bag. Are they unemployed because they're lazy freeloaders or it because they have a DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITY? Hello? Anyone home?

I'm not interested in arguing politics. You can go blow smoke up someone else's ass to try to hide the nature of your original post. However, let me clue you into the reality of the system. You seem to think someone can stroll down to the corner government office and demand benefits. The reality is the government shoves a microscope up your ass and looks for any way possible to reject you. It is almost impossible to get benefits for people who are deserving of them let alone people want to milk the system.




And here you go again assuming most aspies are lazy freeloaders who have no interest in improving their lives. How can I comment any different to you when mouth/fingers betray you every time you post. I'd be willing to bet my last cent that most of the people on this site, and aspies in general, struggle every single day to improve themselves and their lives. Some need a hand up and your response to them is 'It's just autism, suck it up and get your lazy ass back to work'. I don't know if you are aware of this, changing autistic behavior isn't as simple as changing your puppy's desire piss on the carpet. NO! BAD ASPIE! GET YOUR LAZY ASS TO WORK! What a douche.

I agree the Netherlands is probably a superior system. But you also go to see a personal coach, which is a type of self-improvement. In America, we have the extreme individualist attitude that no one should tell us how to live. Even if we are a drain on ourselves and society. So it's a bit of a different culture. Which leads to America having more f****d up people/leachers than Europe (even aside from the factors I listed).

I wonder how many American aspies would even accept the idea that they MIGHT need a personal coach to learn appropriate behavior. Since you really do try to engage in self-improvement, and your country has appropriate resources and incentives to help you, neither you or your country are included in the concerns expressed in the OP. Our country has the free stuff and the welfare system but not the self-improvement tools. Also, our people are less amenable to being told to fix themselves. That's one reason (among many) why we are bankrupt.

You forget that I am diagnosed on the spectrum too. Sexually abused, dirt poor family, language delay, no support as a child other than severe beatings for bad behavior, severe learning disability (NLD and ADHD), bad co-morbids (PTSD, personality disorders, bipolar), actively deprived of social contacts until age 18 due to growing up in a cult, sleep disorder, yet I still am not a freeloader, and I trained myself to learn proper conduct in the work place. If I can do it, anybody can do it.

As long as your government does not supply the appropriate tools, at affordable costs trough regulated benefits and affordable health insurance, most autistic people in your country will not be able to learn enough tricks to help them move forward, and not everyone is strong enough to do that on their own, if you do not invest in disabled people, they will not have the incentive to invest in you, its as simple as that.

You take yourself as example in your reply to rascal, but no one is the same and deals with their problems the same way, some people need a coach or a therapist to help them forward, and if they cant afford one then they will be left behind, that doesn't mean they are leaching, it means they simply cannot get further even if they want to.

Sure there are some autistic people taking advantage of welfare systems (having autism doesn't make you a saint) but this will definitely not be the majority of people with Asperger's in the U.S. .

Another example of your ignorance.

yes i dislike the whole putting yourself in a box and we're oh so different from NT's, no not really.

Oh I know what that means. Yes, I am put on gov't assistance. People insist I need permanent accomodation. People say I am too weak to survive alone. I don't want that, but I want to overcome my "aspie challenges" and succeed like an NT would. Either everybody, whether aspie or NT, is entitled to handouts, or nobody is.

So as I was saying in my previous post, people try to use blame so-called "entitlement programs" for the state of the economy, even though literally no data supports this nonsense. The US economy is in the state it's in because the Bush administration practically burned money. The government quietly gave the big banks trillions of dollars before the big bailout during the 2008 elections.

The US is faced with so much debt (not bankruptcy, we're nowhere near bankruptcy) because of government mismanagement.

Also: "Leecher" is a loaded word that carries negative connotations.



This kind of declaration seriously needs something to back it up. Also "freeloaders" is another negatively loaded word.

You really have no idea what it's like to even be on benefits, do you?