Asperger's without some of the common traits?

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eli77
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11 Dec 2014, 9:54 am

Hello there.

I'd be so grateful if you wouldn't mind reading through the below and then sharing your thoughts with me...

After doing a bit of research on both mine and my Mother's behavior over the last 12 months.
It would seem that my Mum is Asperger's with a bit of attention deficit while I tick every box for adult attention deficit, not so much for asperger's.

My question is: is it possible to have asperger's without some of the more common traits such as: Need for routine, severe sensory issues, topic or hobby obsessions?

I am slightly adverse to bright lights and loud noises and can get stressed if a plan of action is interrupted - I panic, don't know what to do. If original plan goes out the window I tend to get depressed.

I've always struggled with eye contact, have been very child like esp with authority figures, have struggled some sarcasm and jokes, taking things literally.
Always struggled with relationships, felt different and odd.

Was bullied for all of the above for many years.

Never know quite what to do with my face or body language when interacting socially.
Even many years into adulthood I still haven't figured out how to form and maintain friendships so I'm very isolated.

There are a few other things I struggle with that are mainly social problem related and of course attention related.

In social situations I've noticed I have a tendency to clench my fists.

I used to find rocking comforting during some of the worst periods of my life and engaged in a fair bit of self harm, mainly cutting and head banging.

I have numerous odd and slightly disturbing habits including some mild ticks such as blinking very hard.
One of the worst is constant picking and pulling.
If i'm not pulling hairs out of my head, I'm scratching and tearing at skin on my head fingers and feet until it bleeds.
I continue to do this until there are sores that never heal - sorry I know it's gross! :oops:

I find doing these things almost cathartic so It's hard for me to stop (although I've tried many times) perhaps because any time spent around people other than my immediate family is incredibly stressful, at times quite frightening.
Perhaps they are coping mechanisms?

I've always felt the need to be looked after almost as though I've never managed to leave behind the emotional child in me and develop into a self sufficient adult able to assume responsibility for myself. I long for this not to be the case.

My main reason for asking is that I'd like to get privately assessed by someone who has expertise in Asperger's and Adhd.
So I'd like to gather more information and opinions on the asperger's side of things to determine if it would be worth me getting assessed for that as well as adhd.

I suspect I'd have to pay for two separate assessments, one for adhd and the other for asperger's.

Really sorry for the long rambling post.

I understand that no one can answer my question based on what I've said nor can anyone here diagnose, but with your experience it may point me in the right direction.

Thanks!



kraftiekortie
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11 Dec 2014, 10:14 am

It seems as if you have many of the symptoms many of us have. I believe many of us could identify with you.

Like you stated, it would be impossible to offer you a "diagnosis."

If you could afford it, you should go to an autism specialist. If your first psychologist admittedly doesn't specialize in autism, ask him/her to refer you to one who is an autism specialist.

Hopefully, you will benefit from being on this Site, "talking" to the people here, even if you don't obtain a formal diagnosis.

The only prerequisite for membership in "good standing" here is an open mind, a decent attitude, and a desire to advance the cause of autistic/Aspergian people.



Alyosha
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11 Dec 2014, 10:26 am

you dont state where you are from so specific information is harder to give. im from the uk and i am familiar with the icd. so ill use that criteria for to illustrate my points. i ahcvent included part A because its the only difference between an autism and aspergers diagnosis in the icd.

Quote:
B. A total of at least six symptoms from (1), (2) and (3) must be present, with at least two from (1) and at least one from each of (2) and (3)

1. Qualitative impairment in social interaction are manifest in at least two of the following areas:
a. failure adequately to use eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction;
b. failure to develop (in a manner appropriate to mental age, and despite ample opportunities) peer relationships that involve a mutual sharing of interests, activities and emotions;
c. lack of socio-emotional reciprocity as shown by an impaired or deviant response to other people’s emotions; or lack of modulation of behaviour according to social context; or a weak integration of social, emotional, and communicative behaviours;
d. lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g. a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out to other people objects of interest to the individual).

2. Qualitative abnormalities in communication as manifest in at least one of the following areas:
a. delay in or total lack of, development of spoken language that is not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through the use of gestures or mime as an alternative mode of communication (often preceded by a lack of communicative babbling);
b. relative failure to initiate or sustain conversational interchange (at whatever level of language skill is present), in which there is reciprocal responsiveness to the communications of the other person;
c. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic use of words or phrases;
d. lack of varied spontaneous make-believe play or (when young) social imitative play

3. Restricted, repetitive, and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities are manifested in at least one of the following:
a. An encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that are abnormal in content or focus; or one or more interests that are abnormal in their intensity and circumscribed nature though not in their content or focus;
b. Apparently compulsive adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals;
c. Stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms that involve either hand or finger flapping or twisting or complex whole body movements;
d. Preoccupations with part-objects of non-functional elements of play materials (such as their oder, the feel of their surface, or the noise or vibration they generate).
C. The clinical picture is not attributable to the other varieties of pervasive developmental disorders; specific development disorder of receptive language (F80.2) with secondary socio-emotional problems, reactive attachment disorder (F94.1) or disinhibited attachment disorder (F94.2); mental retardation (F70-F72) with some associated emotional or behavioral disorders; schizophrenia (F20.-) of unusually early onset; and Rett’s Syndrome (F84.12).


so theres a lot of variation of sysmtom presentation and how each of the things are decided. but say for example you fit all of 1, thats four, c from 2, and c from 3. that would be the amount of symptoms you need for a diagnosis (assuming they imapire your ability to do somethings) without having a love of routines sensory issues or intense hobbies. other combinations are possible. for example a, b, c of 1, d and c of 2, and d of 3.

for exampel when i was diagnosed as a little i am told they said they would bold the parts that applied to me in the diagnositc report and they bolded all of it. my autistic cousin was daignosed on the basis of fitting a, b, c of 1, a, b of 2, and b & c of 3. my friend was diagnosed on the basis of fitting b and d for 1, b, c, d for 2, and a, b and d for 3.

sorry if you wanted a less criteria focused response. but its the criteria you are assessed against more than just a list of common symptoms (although common secondary symptoms are considered)

but with a consideration of autism and adhd its imporrtant to consider the aspects of overlap between the two. for instance both can have difficulty making friends. me and my adhd cousin had alsmot as much difficutly making friends as her brother is having (he has only been invited to one brithday party since he started school two years ago and has no playground friends) because of her difficulty controlling her impulses when little (mostly to bite people and jump at them and interrupt them to say what she wanted to say). the difference being she knew that it wasnt the thing to do and could see it upset people but couldnt stop herself from doing that. her brother only bites other kids when hes surrounded and overwelmed because he doesnt know how to tell them to go away. he also doesnt understand that other people wont be his friend if he bites. he thinkts people are his friend who defintiely arent and has a lot of difficulty telling if people are being unfriendly with him (hes diagnosed classic autism like me though).

so similar problems can be for different reasons so its definitely a good idea to talk to someone who knows what adhd looks like and what autism looks like and importantly for your context knows what they look like when they appear together.



russiank12
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11 Dec 2014, 10:59 am

I think it's possible. There are moments in my life where I don't need routine (although I usually do) and I know someone that doesn't need it at all. I think slight sensory issues would be okay, or they might not be noticeable. Sometimes, I will get really angry, almost to the point of a meltdown, and then notice that it's because a fan has been on, but I wasn't noticing the noise. I've never known anybody to not have a special interest, but I've seen some people on WP who don't. Some people may have a really common interest, like the internet or movies....?



NiceCupOfTea
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11 Dec 2014, 11:41 am

I cannot diagnose you, but I'd say you ring more bells for Asperger's than some do for me. Have the social problems been evident from childhood? Would your mum come with you to a formal assessment and give evidence about your early childhood?

Personally I didn't tick every box for Asperger's and still got a formal diagnosis from an adult autism clinic this year. For example, apart from noise and perhaps glarey light, I don't consider myself to have any sensory issues of note. I don't have any obvious special interests, unless you count Geometry Dash and browsing the internet.

As far as ADHD is concerned, I suspect I have the inattentive-type but haven't been assessed. I don't particularly want to go through the rigmarole of another diagnostic process, but I would be interested in trying out a med like ritalin. However, I'm not doing anything about it right now (maybe after Christmas).



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11 Dec 2014, 12:28 pm

Having many or just some of the traits is what I think of as an aspect of the spectrum. I wouldn't call it a hard and fast rule but the more traits one has I believe relates to the more severe the case and conversely the lighter the case, the fewer traits (or depth of the trait). At some point is the place where the lightest case meets NT, but even that is quite a gray area. The medical profession therefore establishes those lists and makes a sort of cut-off point, but there is some arbitrariness to it. I even suspect there are autistics who don't meet 'the minimum requirements' for an official diagnosis and NTs,who due to other conditions or personality, do.



eli77
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11 Dec 2014, 7:14 pm

Thank you for all your replies. I didn't expect this many so soon.

It's definitely helpful to get your opinions. I tend to think some of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to any kind of condition are those living with it themselves.

Thanks again :)