whats the difference between aspergers and autism

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Sillylilgoober
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08 Nov 2023, 12:32 pm

???


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lostonearth35
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08 Nov 2023, 12:39 pm

Asperger's is, supposedly, a "mild" form of autism. Although I prefer to call it "spicy". :)



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08 Nov 2023, 12:49 pm

At one time years ago one of the caracteristic differences was said to be I.Q.
If it was below average it was autism and if above average it was aspergers syndrome.
But tests and things have moved on from then.


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08 Nov 2023, 1:11 pm

In the days of the DSM-IV, psychologists had divided out each item with a specific diagnosis criteria. When if came to Pervasive Developmental Disorders, there were separate categories for Autism, Asperger's, and then a catch all called PDD-NOS. The differences were really based on IQ and a few other things.

As time went on, those tasked with the creation of DSM V found that PDDs were more of a spectrum then distinct things. That is when they went to Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD). Also, many on the spectrum wanted to shed the Asperger's name when people started looking into his cooperation with the Nazis and his actions from such cooperation and they were not pretty.



carlos55
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08 Nov 2023, 2:41 pm

Autism with a normal IQ i.e above 85 and no language delay was called Asperger's, that's about it.

Asperger's was removed a decade ago, so its all now called Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), the spectrum part supposed to represent the severity of the condition, mild to severe.


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BillyTree
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30 Dec 2023, 7:41 pm

It seems to me that everyone I meet that were diagnosed in the last years with ASD level 1 or 2 were immediately told by the phycologist "...that's Aspergers". Like the "real" name for the diagnose still is Aspergers.


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MatchboxVagabond
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30 Dec 2023, 9:54 pm

Sillylilgoober wrote:
???

The short answer is that nobody seems to be able to make up their minds. But, it's worth noting that it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between somebody with AS from somebody with Schizoid Personality Disorder and the diagnosis as a matter of history, largely only differed based on when it appeared with it tending to appear earlier with ScPD appearing later.
BillyTree wrote:
It seems to me that everyone I meet that were diagnosed in the last years with ASD level 1 or 2 were immediately told by the phycologist "...that's Aspergers". Like the "real" name for the diagnose still is Aspergers.

And with good reason, it was scientific malpractice to squash AS into ASD, but not do the same with Social Pragmatic Communication Disorder, ADHD or Schizoid Personality Disorder even though they have about as much in common with autistic disorder as AS does.

It made the whole thing a confusing mess where nobody really knows much of anything based on the support levels as what constitutes support is a pretty wide range of services and products. I nearly drank myself to death on water one summer because I didn't know to stop, but I have functioned just fine overseas, I'm not sure how a single number can handle that in a way that isn't incredibly misleading.



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30 Dec 2023, 11:19 pm

Asperger's Syndrome is autism without the speech delay.


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David1346
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03 Jan 2024, 2:16 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
Asperger's Syndrome is autism without the speech delay.


Well said.

To this I will add the fact that Aspergers is no longer a recognized diagnosis by the APA (American Psychiatric Association). In the United States, Aspergers was rolled into an autism diagnosis of which there are three levels, 1, 2, and 3 with 1 being mild, 2 being moderate, and 3 being severe.



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03 Jan 2024, 7:29 am

I think AS is a more clearly defined diagnosis than "ASD Level 1". In the past, people diagnosed with AS self-identified as Aspies. They were the intended target community when this site was first established. Aspies have enough in common with other Aspies to make an Asperger's site a close-knit community. Expanding the community to the entire Autism Spectrum has led to many members here having very little in common with other members. I also don't think Hans Asperger's personal history should have a bearing on the subject. If they wanted to deal with that by coming up with another name, no problem. But it didn't justify canceling the whole Asperger's community.


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03 Jan 2024, 7:42 am

I think if you are weird but otherwise functional without assistance you have Aspergers.
Sheldon on Big Bang Theory might be considered as a fictional example.
He has useful skills that allow him to earn enough money to fix all problems.



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03 Jan 2024, 8:39 am

BTDT wrote:
I think if you are weird but otherwise functional without assistance you have Aspergers.
Sheldon on Big Bang Theory might be considered as a fictional example.
He has useful skills that allow him to earn enough money to fix all problems.

Good point, although the writers never publicly acknowledged that the character had AS. Perhaps a better example would be Sonya Cross on The Bridge. Alex Plank consulted on that show. She lives independently although her boss does coach her on how to deal with members of the public (he is aware of her diagnosis).

John Elder Robison and Alex Plank are real world examples.


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03 Jan 2024, 10:08 am

carlos55 wrote:
Autism with a normal IQ i.e above 85 and no language delay was called Asperger's, that's about it.

Asperger's was removed a decade ago, so its all now called Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), the spectrum part supposed to represent the severity of the condition, mild to severe.

What separated “Aspergers Disorder” from what was unofficially called “High Functioning Autism” was language delay until age 3 which is insignificant for most autistic people since most of us are way older than 3.



MaxE wrote:
I also don't think Hans Asperger's personal history should have a bearing on the subject. If they wanted to deal with that by coming up with another name, no problem. But it didn't justify canceling the whole Asperger's community.

Hans Asperger’s personal history did not have a bearing on Asperger’s “cancellation” as his Nazi complicity was hardly known at the time. The reason was it was thought ASD’s were being overdiagnosed and the Aspergers diagnosis was to blame.

Why Claim Asperger's is Overdiagnosed? - Psychology Today November 2012
Quote:
Some of the overdiagnosis comments sampled below have achieved notoriety in the autism community, but still, the Asperger’s Alive! archive would be remiss not to include them. And its worth remembering that social communciation and Theory of Mind present challenges for some autism researchers.

Susan Swedo, chair of the DSM-5 neurodevelopmental disorders workgroup, said in May that many people who identify with Asperger’s Syndrome “don't actually have Asperger's disorder, much less an autism spectrum disorder.”

David Kupfer, chair of the task force charged with the DSM revisions, blurted to the New York Times in January: “We have to make sure not everybody who is a little odd gets a diagnosis of autism or Asperger Disorder. It involves a use of treatment resources. It becomes a cost issue.” (This was startling to those who’d missed the memo that declared costs and treatment resources the responsibility of the APA. Which was everyone.)

Catherine Lord, the director of the Institute for Brain Development at New York-Presbyterian Hospital, and another member of the workgroup, told Scientific American in January, “If the DSM-IV criteria are taken too literally, anybody in the world could qualify for Asperger's or PDD-NOS... We need to make sure the criteria are not pulling in kids who do not have these disorders.”

Paul Steinberg, a D.C. psychiatrist, declared in a New York Times op-ed in January that “with the loosening of the diagnosis of Asperger, children and adults who are shy and timid, who have quirky interests like train schedules and baseball statistics, and who have trouble relating to their peers” are erroneously and harmfully labeled autistic. He blamed a 1992 Department of Education directive that “called for enhanced services" for children diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders: “The diagnosis of Asperger syndrome went through the roof."

Dr. Bryna Siegel, a developmental psychologist at the University of California, San Francisco, told a Daily Beast reporter in February that she “undiagnoses” nine of out ten students with so-called Asperger’s. Siegel was a member of the panel responsible for the inclusion of Asperger’s in the DSM-IV, which the reporter cited to me in a phone call as evidence of Seigel's objectivity: implicitly, Seigel is critiquing her own work. But that same journalist made no mention in the piece of Dr. Seigel’s history as an expert witness for school districts fending off families’ claims for those “enhanced services,” and the obvious conflict of interest (as well as the selection bias in her client pool) this represents. In October, she told New York magazine that she undiagnoses six out of ten. That's quite a shift in eight months. Hope it was evidence-based.


At the time and in the years after there was quite a bit of fear and anger over the removal of Aspergers. This was an obvious attempt to stop and reverse the widening diagnostic criteria. Many feared never getting diagnosed in the first place or losing the diagnosis they had and returning to just being just weird, attention seeker etc. The Aspergers diagnosis and Aspie identity had finally given a whole bunch of adults a boost in self esteem by giving them an explanation, showing them there are others like them, and now these mean NT’s were snatching it away.

As it turned out the those fears were unfounded. A provision was added that grandfathered in all the old Aspergers Disorder diagnosis into the new Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis. The attempt to lower the amount of ASD diagnosis clearly failed, the Autism Prevalence rate has continued to rise.

That all said while the main fears of a decade ago were unfounded as mentioned trying to solve a category that was perceived as too broad by putting it in a broader category has created its own set of problems.

The 2018 widespread publicity about Hans Asperger’s Nazi complicity coming at a time where there is a lot more concern about “problematic” naming did shut down a lot of the remaining resistance. That said outside of certain spaces “Aspergers” and “Aspie” hasn't been cancelled. You still see those terms used here, in the mainstream media, and as noted by some clinicians. As the Autistics who were diagnosed with Aspergers die off those terms will become a historical footnote. Arguably the revelations about Hans Asperger hastened that process a bit.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 03 Jan 2024, 12:01 pm, edited 5 times in total.

BillyTree
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03 Jan 2024, 10:43 am

Autism is a spectrum. Seems that the subtle differences in criteria between Asperger and high functioning autism was part of that spectrum and not that important. ASD level 1 or Asperger - it's just semantics to me.


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03 Jan 2024, 2:37 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
snip
As it turned out the those fears were unfounded. A provision was added that grandfathered in all the old Aspergers Disorder diagnosis into the new Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis. The attempt to lower the amount of ASD diagnosis clearly failed, the Autism Prevalence rate has continued to rise.

That all said while the main fears of a decade ago were unfounded as mentioned trying to solve a category that was perceived as too broad by putting it in a broader category has created its own set of problems.

Not quite, there's a bunch of folks that would have been AS or PDD-NOS that no longer are diagnosis, that's why the grandfathering was done. To disenfranchise the not yet diagnosed. There has been an increase in diagnosed, just not evenly across the spectrum.



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03 Jan 2024, 5:15 pm

Either something is wrong with the person being diagnosed, or not. If there's something wrong, then give it a name.

If a child of 3 has never spoken, then ASD is one possible diagnosis. OTOH you might encounter a child of 3 with an impressive vocabulary, who has spoken since age one, but has never conversed. You might give that child an Asperger's diagnosis if it's an option, as it might have been in the 2000s. At least that's one way for me to understand it.


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