NTD (Neurotypical Disorder) should be in the DSM

Page 1 of 2 [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

midianfire
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 16 Dec 2013
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 18
Location: australia

07 May 2015, 10:10 pm

I think NTD (Neurotypical Disorder) should be in the DSM
key criteria for the condition:
sufferers may be illogical
sufferers care about stupid things
sufferers have no idea what AS Spectrum people are telling them about obvious things
sufferers may same something that isn't what they mean

any more input on this new classification would be helpful :lol:



B19
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,993
Location: New Zealand

07 May 2015, 10:27 pm

There have been some amusing threads on NT disorder in the past :)

Making eye contact constantly is another symptom of course, as is thinking inside the square when solving problems as completely novel solutions seem very rare for them because of their disorder.



midianfire
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 16 Dec 2013
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 18
Location: australia

08 May 2015, 12:27 am

we should make an organisation called neurotypicals speak. NTD is a very serious neurological disorder , they need our help!! ! they are so confused



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

08 May 2015, 1:46 am

Good job negatively blanket generalizing all people who where born with typical neurology...you are so much better than the neurotypicals who do that to those of us without typical neurology, obviously.

Seriously though why would having a brain that functions normally be a disorder? that doesn't cause impairments in functioning so the notion is just silly in the first place. Not to say all neurotypicals are great wonderful, superior people...but to pretend they are all judgemental, ignorant/stupid jerks isn't exactly accurate.


_________________
We won't go back.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

08 May 2015, 1:48 am

B19 wrote:
There have been some amusing threads on NT disorder in the past :)

Making eye contact constantly is another symptom of course, as is thinking inside the square when solving problems as completely novel solutions seem very rare for them because of their disorder.


In what way is being able to make eye contact disabling? Oh yes the poor neurotypicals having an ability that helps them communicate with others that some of us lack.....I do not get it.


_________________
We won't go back.


midianfire
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 16 Dec 2013
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 18
Location: australia

08 May 2015, 2:08 am

8O



The_Walrus
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,811
Location: London

08 May 2015, 5:07 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
B19 wrote:
There have been some amusing threads on NT disorder in the past :)

Making eye contact constantly is another symptom of course, as is thinking inside the square when solving problems as completely novel solutions seem very rare for them because of their disorder.


In what way is being able to make eye contact disabling? Oh yes the poor neurotypicals having an ability that helps them communicate with others that some of us lack.....I do not get it.

I think B19's post is a satire of AS diagnostic criteria from a pro-neurodiversity perspective. The suggestion is that NTs need to make eye contact in order to communicate. There's no reason why that should be the case.

I prefer that suggestion to some of the others because it's grounded in reality - it actually is a difference between autistic people and neurotypicals - rather than anti-neurotypical sentiment. Autistic people are no more logical, no less prone to being interested in boring things.



B19
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,993
Location: New Zealand

08 May 2015, 6:20 am

Yes, it is a little bit of satirical levity :) I like the satirical suggestion of the DSM addition too :lol:



cavernio
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,462

08 May 2015, 8:21 am

It's silly because the only reason it makes sense is if you're on the spectrum and you are saying that you can communicate -just as effectively or moreso- than someone not on it. But you don't. Not even within the subset of people on the spectrum you don't.

Please, tell me how wonderful it is to see someone meltdown and become physically aggressive and tell me how that communication is fine, or how's about when they are unable to speak. Silence speaks volumes, right? Please tell me how wonderful not being able to relay parts of yourself to other people are.

-most people I know are illogical
-even when I logically know something doesn't mean I can talk about it or become involved in any emotional way
-people who says that isn't what they mean is then picked up by other things like *gasp* eye contact. Yeah, all those ways they're dumb, using their extra skills.
-I don't care about most thing other people like, doubly so if their interests are narrow. Yes, those are stupid things.


What's being used is a pretty classic defense mechanism here; good thing you're NT enough to know how to use it, or else who knows? You might end up feeling disabled.


_________________
Not autistic, I think
Prone to depression
Have celiac disease
Poor motivation


abeautifulmind
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 20 Oct 2014
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 65

08 May 2015, 12:14 pm

Satirical or not, I do agree with the post. Who says communication or being able to communicate is important ? Who says making eye contact is important ? Aren't these the creation of a mind- a mind that likes to constantly create new rules and ideas ? Aren't these rules created by society ? So that society can function smoothly ? What will happen if society does not function smoothly ? Who will be most affected by it ? NTs ? Will Aspies fee better if there are no social rules ?
How do animals function ? Do animals marry ? Make eye contact while communicating ?
Even if you do not take these questions seriously, remember that every disorder, be it NTD or ASD is a condition that was identified as an anti-thesis to some social, moral or human structure of norms.
Meltdowns, shutdowns,lack of eye contact, inability to make small talk,etc.etc. is normal in animals and not normal in humans because humans think that they are not animals but the animal instinct in humans cannot be denied altogether. Violence, anger, etc. is not acceptable in human society but is normal/acceptable in animals. But what if a man has more of animal instincts ? Human society will force him to be a human ( rather like an NT human ) through electric shocks,psychological counseling and what not but the fact remains that still a "force" is being used.
Humans wants to reach "a perfect state of being " and deny "imperfection" in all forms. It is like exterminating all the Jews in Hitler's Nazi state.
Yes, we want to be free from physical diseases ( sometimes possible ) and some wants to be free from death too/be immortal ( although it is not possible till now ), some wants an autism free society. But disease,death or autism ( although they are not similar ), whether they are curable or not-reminds human that they are imperfect in some way and want to get rid of them. But this I consider stupid merely because when a simple change in attitude/intelligence can lead to acceptance (or rather UNDERSTANDING) of all these, we are fighting to "terminate/cure" them to make this society "perfect" -but whose definition of "perfection" we are talking about ? NTs again ?



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

08 May 2015, 1:20 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
B19 wrote:
There have been some amusing threads on NT disorder in the past :)

Making eye contact constantly is another symptom of course, as is thinking inside the square when solving problems as completely novel solutions seem very rare for them because of their disorder.


In what way is being able to make eye contact disabling? Oh yes the poor neurotypicals having an ability that helps them communicate with others that some of us lack.....I do not get it.

I think B19's post is a satire of AS diagnostic criteria from a pro-neurodiversity perspective. The suggestion is that NTs need to make eye contact in order to communicate. There's no reason why that should be the case.

I prefer that suggestion to some of the others because it's grounded in reality - it actually is a difference between autistic people and neurotypicals - rather than anti-neurotypical sentiment. Autistic people are no more logical, no less prone to being interested in boring things.



Well I know I do not need to make eye contact, in fact it is detrimental to me....but it is not disabling for people to have that ability in a society where that is a major part of a lot of social interaction to a lot of people. I do not think we should all be made to force ourselves to make this unnatural eye contact, in fact I think there needs to be more awareness that we are different in that way and when we don't make eye contact in conversation its not to be rude or because we're lying/untrustworthy.

But I don't really see how it would be disabling to be able to do normal eye contact, I do not see what detriment it would really cause aside from making interactions with autistic people more confusing.


_________________
We won't go back.


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,489
Location: Long Island, New York

08 May 2015, 3:30 pm

I think a reliance on social hierarchy and euphemisms can in certain situations be disabling.

Lack of ability to is not automatically disability. Lack of eye contact is not a hindrance in certain cultures. Using automatically lack of ability is a disability logic being gay is disabling because inability to procreate and since they are a minority it is more difficult to have relationships.

The executive functioning difficulties commonly occurring in autism might be truly disabling because people with those will have difficulty even if they are a majority.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


cavernio
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,462

08 May 2015, 3:47 pm

abeautifulmind wrote:
Satirical or not, I do agree with the post. Who says communication or being able to communicate is important ? Who says making eye contact is important ? Aren't these the creation of a mind- a mind that likes to constantly create new rules and ideas ? Aren't these rules created by society ? So that society can function smoothly ? What will happen if society does not function smoothly ? Who will be most affected by it ? NTs ? Will Aspies fee better if there are no social rules ?
How do animals function ? Do animals marry ? Make eye contact while communicating ?
Even if you do not take these questions seriously, remember that every disorder, be it NTD or ASD is a condition that was identified as an anti-thesis to some social, moral or human structure of norms.
Meltdowns, shutdowns,lack of eye contact, inability to make small talk,etc.etc. is normal in animals and not normal in humans because humans think that they are not animals but the animal instinct in humans cannot be denied altogether. Violence, anger, etc. is not acceptable in human society but is normal/acceptable in animals. But what if a man has more of animal instincts ? Human society will force him to be a human ( rather like an NT human ) through electric shocks,psychological counseling and what not but the fact remains that still a "force" is being used.
Humans wants to reach "a perfect state of being " and deny "imperfection" in all forms. It is like exterminating all the Jews in Hitler's Nazi state.
Yes, we want to be free from physical diseases ( sometimes possible ) and some wants to be free from death too/be immortal ( although it is not possible till now ), some wants an autism free society. But disease,death or autism ( although they are not similar ), whether they are curable or not-reminds human that they are imperfect in some way and want to get rid of them. But this I consider stupid merely because when a simple change in attitude/intelligence can lead to acceptance (or rather UNDERSTANDING) of all these, we are fighting to "terminate/cure" them to make this society "perfect" -but whose definition of "perfection" we are talking about ? NTs again ?


Let me get this straight; trying to be more 'advanced' as a society and civilization by getting rid of natural things like diseases and violence is playing into what current society deems as prized, and that's unnatural and is not actually good, but you then strongly support the idea of understanding of different forms of people. To accept violence is to pretty much give a death sentence to autistics unless they are physically very capable. But even then, they wouldn't band in groups to protect themselves from other people like everyone else would. More animal instincts means you would not exist today.


_________________
Not autistic, I think
Prone to depression
Have celiac disease
Poor motivation


Norny
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,488

09 May 2015, 12:02 am

From my point of view autism is clearly a disorder, as is ADHD and all other diagnoses in the DSM. The imaginary 'NT' neurology is the point of comparison for existing diagnoses, the normality. Imagine for a second that there were countless more diagnoses in the DSM - only a minority would be 'NT'. The label is a large reason many seem to have a problem with it being the supposed point of normality.

If you take the NT label out of the equation, you're left with a global population of humans. Of these humans, some will have sensory issues or be non-verbal (autism), have difficulty concentrating and/or thriving (ADHD), irrational obsessions/compulsions (OCD) and so on. The remainder are essentially the same just without these issues.

Lack of eye contact is not a good thing. It is not. It aides social bonding, without it socializing is less meaningful and motivating.

IMO a world full of autistics would not work, neither would a world full of ADHD, OCD or any other diagnosis. I'm not trying to be offensive, but I honestly think NTs (without any diagnoses) are by and large advantaged, regardless of any factor such as society being the way it is.

I don't find the satire all that bad (though it seems highly aggressive) but to claim that NTD should actually exist is highly delusional to me.


_________________
Unapologetically, Norny. :rambo:
-chronically drunk


StarTrekker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,088
Location: Starship Voyager, somewhere in the Delta quadrant

09 May 2015, 12:55 am

midianfire wrote:
we should make an organisation called neurotypicals speak. NTD is a very serious neurological disorder , they need our help!! ! they are so confused


I agree, we'll make sure to put only autistics on the board, because obviously the poor NT sufferers aren't able to make decisions about their condition for themselves. We'll also need to start funding research for a cure as soon as possible, after all, who would want to live with such a horrible disease the rest of their lives? I feel so bad for the poor parents who have to look after their NT children, they struggle with such burdens.


_________________
"Survival is insufficient" - Seven of Nine
Diagnosed with ASD level 1 on the 10th of April, 2014
Rediagnosed with ASD level 2 on the 4th of May, 2019
Thanks to Olympiadis for my fantastic avatar!


StarTrekker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,088
Location: Starship Voyager, somewhere in the Delta quadrant

09 May 2015, 12:58 am

Norny wrote:

Lack of eye contact is not a good thing. It is not. It aides social bonding, without it socializing is less meaningful and motivating.


I would be inclined to point out that this is a very NT-centric statement. NTs find socialising without eye contact to be less meaningful and motivating, however, for those who can't read eyes, or who get intensely uncomfortable looking at them, being forced to do so makes being motivated to communicate a lot harder. It's also entirely meaningless if you can't see whatever it is eyes are supposed to show you.


_________________
"Survival is insufficient" - Seven of Nine
Diagnosed with ASD level 1 on the 10th of April, 2014
Rediagnosed with ASD level 2 on the 4th of May, 2019
Thanks to Olympiadis for my fantastic avatar!