HFA+XXY=mutually corrective or double-trouble?

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If I am understanding HFA correctly, at least sufferers of this disorder have hypermasculine brain/body chemistry. Since we should beware of generalizations, I'm going to run with the tenuous assumption that the particular case that we're working with on this occassion is excessively masculine in both mental and physical development. If I'm incorrect in supposing that HFA works this way, at least sometimes, feel free to correct me because it would potentially altogether nix this little thought experiment.

Now, there's another disorder called Klinefelter's Syndrome, also known as XXY Disorder. As you might assume, it would occur as a result of an extra X-chromosome appearing on every cell in the body. Its effect is usually to produce a male who develops the secondary sex characteristics of a woman, and this is presumably reflected in his body chemistry as well. Again, there may be other factors that disrupt this thinking, such as peripheral effects of the extra X-chromosome or dynamics of the condition that I do not understand.

What I'm curious about is the possibility that the combination between an egg being fertilized with an extra X-chromosome and the resulting embryo/fetus being subjected to environmental promoters of HFA would result in the two disorders operating in opposition to one another. If one caused excessively feminine body chemistry and the other caused escessively masculine body chemistry, which would also affect brain chemistry, one would assume that the result may be a normal male. However, there is also the possibility/probability of the conditions interacting in peculiar ways, thus producing an even more messed-up product than if either of the conditions had occurred alone. Lastly and, in my eyes, most likely, we could arrive at a child who presents some of the unpleasant symptoms of both disorders but also lacks some of the dysfunctions of them as well.

This is a peculiar line of thought, but I would be highly interested in whether such a case has ever been discovered. If the two conditions mostly cancel each other, though (and with few peripheral oddities), such children would be horribly difficult to track down.

What are your thoughts on this? As many of you know, my trends in thinking tend to be a little bizzare, so forgive me if this subject is difficult to relate to.

My step-brother has Klinefelter's syndrome, treated with testosterone injections, and he seems quite autistic in many ways. He had/has extreme meltdowns, does not understand social nuances (though he can fake understanding quite well), and did not walk or talk until he was a preschooler. In terms of autistic symptoms, I would not say that he is very high functioning. He can talk about simple things and hold down a very simple job, but he is nowhere near the intellectual level of the HFAs I have known.

I don't think you'll find that the two cancel each other out. The individual would just be abnormal in more ways than someone who had only one or the other.

Where do you get this stuff? Nope! Actually, The autism is probably less likely to occur and, if it did, it wouldn't make the person appear any more male.

Frankly, from what I understand, the autistic brain ends up being a kind of hybrid. It seems almost like it doesn't really die off like a normal brain. So the person has some strengths of BOTH! Of course, women DO have society, and estrogen, so I guess the social area does better. Males get the linguistic capabilities that females are more known for. The logical and spatial areas appear to be less sex linked.(based on IQ tests) in autistics. ANOTHER thing! As a group, males tend to show a greater disparity of intelligence. Males tend to be among the dumbest AND the smartest, whether autistic or not. SO, clearly, there IS still some difference between the two brains.

Well, the thing is, a lot of sufferers of Klinefelter's show characteristics of autism. This doesn't necessarily mean that they were exposed to environmental precursors to the type of autism that is characterized by "extreme male" developmental trends. Pardon me if I'm not understanding these disorders quite correctly, though. I'm still working on my understanding of them.

On another forum, someone thought I was expressing the idea of the extreme male brain, and they let me have both barrels! Ironically, I was talking about the hybrid concept.

Still, there isn't a blood test for autism, and the women can still generally have children. That means they don't have an appreciable, if any, increase in testosterone. Also, they don't generally have small breasts which means they have a normal amount of estrogen as well.

ALSO, men don't always go bald, and don't show signs of real excessive testosterone.

Him, 1st I thought the disorder u were talking about (the extra chromosome) was thought at least in the past to cause criminal behavior, as dumb as it sounds. Supposedly they had more male chemicals in the brain and that caused that behavior. Now I realize thats th result of 2 YY + chromosomes, you said XX + so i think we are thinking of 2 different chromosome abnormalities.

Tho, with the 2 apparently oposite problems, some of the behavior may be similar (excessive maleness????)

If I understand ya correctly u think if autism and 1 of those were to occure that they could cancel out some symptoms of eather as well as make some worse, Im willing to bet overall, someone with these issues (and this is only my opinion, ive never heard of someone like this but am sure they exist) will be pretty messed up as far as having a sucessful life.

Great. My understanding of HFA was a bit off, then. I tend to research specific chemical interactions in my explorations of these disorders, and it tends to impede my understanding of the whole. Now I have a bit more grasp on the disorder and will hopefully be able to avoid these misunderstandings in the future.

I don't think such things would balance out like you think they would. Kleinfelters is no picnic either. I guy I knew had I friend I meet once who I now know has kleinfelters. He weighs 350lbs, has breasts bigger than his wife's, and his voice got higher, not lower when he hit puberty. Imagine being fat, having cleavage, being a soprano, and autistic all at the same time.

I wonder what happened then?

My step-brother grew up looking fairly normal. He is a bit older than I am, if I recall correctly. Twenty-six I think. He looks like a man and is in good shape, though his features are finer than the average guy. He grows a beard, even. I think his voice is higher than most guys but it doesn't sound like a woman's.

Maybe the breasts have more to do with the weight than the Klinefelter's? I am no expert but it seems to me that with proper treatment, such an outcome would not occur.

YIKES, even the average WOMANS voice is supposed to get lower! It is just not as much as a mans. To have it get HIGHER, YIKES! WOW!

Steve

If that theory were true, then there would be no females with HFA or AS, as they have two x chromosomes and no Y chromosome.

Not to mention the fact that guys with klienfelters can't father children.



From what I've read, kids who are diagnosed early enough can be given hormone therapy so when they hit puberty they don't suffer the effects that this guy I meet did. The extra X chromosome makes their bodies develop like they are female.

Then there are those with klienfelters who have two x's and two y's which causes a different set of symptoms

Not exactly. There is a variation of Kleinfelters call Mosaic where they can father children. Mosaic is where only a percentage and not all of the DNA have the extra X. It's possible that I might be a mosaic and an Aspie (which I know that I am). I have an unusually low testosterone level (Total level 375 ng/dL, Free 12.8pg/ML) . It's still in the so called normal range, but low enough to kill sex drive. The urologists knows about my Aspergers and suspects his son has it. (We often talk about it when I see him.) I'm also 6' 6" (tallness is normal for KS), but I have normal body hair, but I don't have a male physique (I've always looked like an undeveloped female, i.e. I've always had a more feminine waist that a male one.) My urologists is going to run more tests, but unfortunately he's away for a couple of weeks. I should know more after the 24th of September.

-Tallfreak