Relating to Truly Mentally Ill People(Aspies vs. NTs)

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In my case, it depends on the person. I definitely will make the effort to understand someone with a mental condition, and try to get why they do what they do if it's a bit off. I might not even notice what others would consider abnormal under some circumstances. However, if someone is a jerk despite all attempts to be polite and work within their preferences, and there's no reason that they couldn't make efforts to control themselves, they get the same reaction from me that any other jerk would get.

Hi there,

It's a good question or a good topic and I can only speak for myself.

I do empathize with the mentally ill, probably more then most NT's, but now I rather stay away from them. A short story:

I've met two schizophrenics (maybe more, not knowing) and although I sympathize with their troubles, I tend to get overwhelmed or get intimidated by them. They were loud and all over the place. They often frighten me and make mind-loops I cannot follow. Both had scary and cynical laughs.

The one I know a bit better is a woman. She calls herself a witch, is 45 y/o, now, and working nights. She is very into the occult, like tarot, runes, finding the guide within and that sort of bonkers sheit.

She functions but just on the edge. At first I found her fascinating and later became more and more scared of her. She wanted me as her plaything (or something/ no real feelings from her) and I got out just in time. Now looking back I should've gotten away much earlier. She had a strange grip on me, I quess.

Very, very beautiful I found her and throu meeting her, she made me realize what I am. An autist, a high-functioning one, probably an Asperger.

This whole experience made me very confused and left me with a broken shoulder and a bit of an alcohol problem. Compulsive as I am, I am still thinking much about this, although it's nearly 3/4 of a year ago I ended the whole thing.

Back to the question and the meeting of minds in particular with schizophrenic ones, I should say; no, not for me. Too weird for a soul like mine; longing for logic and clarity. And tranquillity.

Maybe a bipolar-soul is a bit more comprehensible but I can most relate to the honesty of the autist, his'/hers noble heart and his'/hers charming social awkwardness. Among hundred of other things.

Best of luck to you all,
Ceesjan

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Simplex Sigillum Veri

Several of the folks I have known all my life (mostly parents of friends) are at the age where they are developing dementia. I can deal with this pretty well in the abstract, but when I am face to face with them, it takes a lot out of me to deal with the irrational things they say. I try to take my cues from their children (who have developed a protocol for interacting without annoying them), but it is hard for me not to step back and say "wait a minute, that makes no sense" to something they say. I admire the dedication of people who deal with this all day for years. I sure hope I never have to.

I also agree about avoiding spending too long around people with depression. I find I have a hard time keeping from pointing out statements that I regard as illogical. I think I just aggravate them in the long run. I'm basically an optimistic person and find depressed people need something I apparently can't give them.

The funny thing is, many of the posts on this thread saying there is a meeting of minds between those with Asperger's and the mentally ill NT do not claim to actually know a mentally ill NT. I live near the largest mental hospital in the state and it used to house more people than it does now. Much more. It wasn't always such a good place, either. So, I grew up near people who lived in this place when it was basically a warehouse for people suffering schizophrenia. They were released into society during deinstitutionalization days but still lingered around and I saw them growing up. I also saw their behaviours, attitudes, whatever. Two characteristics stand out in my mind. One, is meanness. A lot of them had this sadistic delight in being really mean to others. People say Aspies can be like that but the schizophrenics I have encountered are the ones who are like that. I think it might be linked to having schizophrenia. Another thing is the paranoia. Even when not psychotic, many of them are chronically paranoid to the point they think everyone and I do mean everyone is out to get them, breaking into their house, damaging their property, prowling around their yard at night, taking their money out of the bank. They are just completely out of touch with reality, because one thing I have noticed is they are usually the ones doing the things they accuse others of. Maybe this is a part of schizophrenia too, this projection of what they do onto others and then accusing others of doing what they do? It's part of not having any "insight"?
Anyway, sometimes not only are they irrationally paranoid, they start doing things to other people based on this paranoia. Innocent people who have done nothing to them and do not even know what is going on getting caught in their insane crossfire. This is my issue with them.

What is "truly mentally ill"? Those who don't know they're "ill"? This can be said for Autism/Asperger's too, as many are unaware that there's anything wrong with them.

Dementia (see: psychosis), and on the other end, mania? Autism/Asperger's is a mental illness/disorder, it's just of an early onset, i.e., developmentally, rather than later on. Psychosis and Autism are close in many ways (in fact, Autism can still be called Infantile Psychosis). I don't think Autism and mania are close at all.

I don't see people with Asperger's relating to those with Asperger's any better than those without when taken as a whole, so I doubt it'd be any different concerning other mental illnesses/disorders.

Reading this forum has caused me to be more accepting and understanding of those whose behavior conflicts with social norms.

Here, I've read descriptions of all kinds of experiences of what it's like to act different, why people act different, etc. The parts that I can relate to reassure me that I'm not alone. The parts that I cannot personally relate to help me to better understand other people who would have simply seemed odd or confusing before.

For example, now, if I see someone walk into a store, stare at the ceiling, and then start spinning around in circles making shrieking noises, I think, "Oh, maybe that person is autistic and s/he is stimming in order to deal with the stress of being in a store. In any case, I bet the way they are acting makes sense to them." Before, I might have just thought, "How odd!"

well, I have.
I was put in an asylum when I was 17, I was locked in for most of a year. There were Schizophrenics and Manic depressives (now called BiPolar) dementia when the guy would scream in the middle of the night that the ward was on fire racing around (delusional) or he would sit on the floor in the middle of the ward and weep as though his broken child lie in front of him. There was an alcoholic that had been dry through AA for 12 years that had taken Niquil (an over the counter cold remedy with high alcohol content) and went 'wet brain' a nasty little condition (Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome) that makes you stagger and lear and drool and forever look like a drunk on a binge even if you are stone cold sober for years.

I lived with Paranoid people that would maniacally scream and twist their bodies to avoid the 'death rays' shooting out of my back and fingers. I sat at the same table as women grabbing onto the table (where we played endless rounds of Rummy and Monopoly) as their world was caught up in a tornado of anxiety attacks, screaming and in seizure because your sleeve brushed the perfectly lined up rummy 'books' of matched cards. Huge hulking men with the mind of a three year old smeared feces across the wall when locked in the 'quiet room' for some minor bit of acting out in the common room.

At the time (1968) I was considered 'one of them' because I did not think like anyone they(people on the outside)knew. In the asylum itself, I was considered 'odd' because they had NO idea what was wrong with me. But yes, I have lived with truly psychotic people, and other than perceiving a wretched stench of from the schizophrenics, I mostly just tried to keep out of their way while marveling at their actions. I knew I was not one of them, goodness knows what they thought of me. But I have been terrified of being caught and placed back with them, hence, my life story many of you have read about on this forum.

Merle

I think I can certainly say that I can relate and sympathize with mentally ill and mentally disabled people. I will also say that I can have a fear of people who yell and behave erratically but sometimes NT people can give me this same fear just by the way they behave. I was a CNA, Medical Asssitant and a Phlebotomist, so I came into contact with a lot of different people. When I was a CNA I took care of people with Alzheimers, of all my jobs this was my favorite.

My best friend is prone to mania. Thats the best time to be around him

I have trouble relating to the truly mentally ill, something to do with body posture and mannerisms, its easy to recognize a paranoid schizophrenic, regardless if your aspie or nt. I have my suspicions that certain banned members, are not on the spectrum, but are highly paranoid schizophrenic, based on their reactions to being confronted.

People considered mentally ill, along with some other people, vary. I am a little disturbed by some of the stories on here that seem to relate knowing a few people with psych labels to forming an opinion about people with whatever label they have in general.

I've known a few autistic people who were vicious and nasty, but it would be wrong for me to base my entire view of autistic people off of them.

"Mentally ill" is a broad category. As currently defined... It covers people with a lot of neurological conditions that are poorly defined at the moment (thus making it very strange to refer to some as "neurotypical"), it covers people who are in severe emotional distress for one reason or another, it covers people who have had to adapt to difficult circumstances, it covers people outside of certain cultural norms, it covers people who have been severely and repeatedly traumatized, it covers people who have never learned certain kinds of critical thinking strategies, etc.

Most of the existing categories don't differentiate between all of those things, and will likely later be considered archaic. And there's a lot of evidence that "illness" isn't the best metaphor for what's going on, although I know that some people prefer that particular judgment to being judged as having moral problems. I just think there are better things than either way.

So, among people labeled (or labelable) as mentally ill, I know a lot of different people. A few are good friends. A few have acted towards me in terrible ways (one of whom at one point started threatening me after they decided I was tapping their phone lines among other things). Most I am neither friends with nor have they done me any harm. Which overall makes them just like any other category of people I've interacted with.

It's too often "crazy" is used as a synonym for "evil", and some psych labels seem applied mostly as a way of saying "I don't like you" rather than imparting real information. Rae Unzicker talked about the use of "crazy" when people really mean "evil":

Most of the people I knew with a history of schizophrenia were not psychotic all the time. Even when not psychotic, and by psychotic I mean bizarre delusions and/or hallucinations (bizarre not just vague worries of being persecuted) they were still paranoid. It was a constant state for them. From what I could tell, it's just a part of being schizophrenic. This constant state of paranoia with or without the bizarre delusions.

Anbuend, believe me I am not basing my entire perception of schizophrenics on my experiences with them. That is why I apologize that my posts might look that way. When someone sees the same behaviour in persons with the same disorder, though, what can be concluded? I base my opinions on rigorous trial and error and bad experience. Seriously bad experience. Now, I have never had this kind of bad experience with anyone who has an autistic disorder, nor bipolar, nor depression, nor anything else for that matter. I have come across some mean NTs too but they were not the same kind of mean as the schizophrenics. It's very serious! I am not typing this to bash schizophrenics but some reality, please. That's all I ask!

I don't really know which part of my post was not about reality. I've known a lot of people from the psych system, with a wide variety of labels. Very few were any meaner than usual, and if the extraordinarily mean people clustered into one categorization, it was usually because the people diagnosing them in whatever particular place I was in, had a pattern of giving particular diagnoses to people they didn't like (which is a form of prejudice, not a form of diagnostics). It's quite likely you know a number of other people with psych diagnoses and don't know it, in part because there are so many prejudices about them that they are likely to keep quiet about it, and you would barely know them from anyone else.

I've known a number of extraordinarily mean people. As I said, a few of them are autistic. That's reality too -- we can't cut people out of our category just because we don't happen to like them, there are unlikable people in every category. I see a huge amount of people appearing to handle cognitive dissonance about the idea that autistic people can be mean, by simply declaring anyone autistic that they don't happen to like, non-autistic. Which is a pretty toxic attitude that's been around the autistic community for years.

But there are every range of people, from totally harmless to extraordinarily mean, in pretty much every category of human being alive. It seems to be a common part of human nature, to conclude things about mean people, if they are in a different category from themselves. From what I have seen, the difference in people considered mentally ill isn't degree of meanness, it's just that if they are mean they often display it in highly unusual ways that frighten people because they're unfamiliar with them. And as Rae Unzicker pointed out, this is borne out by research.