"Einstein Syndrome," Do You Fit It?
Blindspot149
Veteran
Joined: 7 Oct 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,516
Location: Aspergers Quadrant, INTJ, AQ 45/50
25 Oct 2009, 4:06 am
I wouldn't qualify because:
I was speaking VERY early and....
I didn't have trouble with toilet training 
Other than that I would be pretty much on the money (not literally) with the other traits although I dont know what 'very high IQ means'. I am only in the 98% percentile which against Einstein is almost intellectually challenged 
_________________
Now then, tell me. What did Miggs say to you? Multiple Miggs in the next cell. He hissed at you. What did he say?
25 Oct 2009, 5:00 am
Does anyone else have "Einstein Syndrome" characteristics?
Z
Family Pattern
Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
Close Relatives Who talked late
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college)
Individual Pattern
Majority are boys
High IQ
High analytical and/or musical abilities
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Late in socializing with their peers
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people
Late in being toilet trained
Fascinated with mechanical things
Like building things
Like putting puzzles together
Strong-willed
Overlaps with characteristics of intellectually gifted and autism spectrum.
“Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”
I put those ones that fit me in italics.
_________________
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20 Dec 2009, 3:00 am
I'm really glad to have found this thread. I've been looking up information about this because of my daughter. I mentioned to someone recently that she wasn't talking yet, and they pointed it out to me. They just told me a couple signs, but it's uncanny how much of those fit her!
For our family, every last one fits:
Close relatives in analytical occupation (grandmother and grandfathers, my mother and husband are also both brilliant in math)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally (grandmother, grandfather, uncle, and me; one is professional)
Close Relatives Who talked late (grandmother, and my child's father; both went to speech therapy)
Parents have high education level (neither of us have that much, we just weren't able to finish because of money. Both had 3-4.0 averages)
My daughter is at this time 23 months, so it would be hard to peg a lot of the individual things on her, but here are the noticeable ones:
High analytical and/or musical abilities (starting showing musical aptitude about 6 months ago)
Extremely good memory (really hard to make her forget things, even "punished" Grandpa for something he did months prior)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Late in socializing with their peers (I'm a SAHM, not sure this counts)
Delayed Speech Development (almost two, saying about 5 words on a regular basis, repeats others)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people (hates new people)
Late in being toilet trained (My brother and I were both trained by 23 months so I would think yes. Husband was really late)
Fascinated with mechanical things (unfortunately)
Likes putting puzzles together (yep. doesn't always succeed, but she's been trying since she was a little over a year.)
Strong-willed
I'm starting to see a glimmer of hope here. =) Not too worried about her speech now. Thank you again for the list!
20 Dec 2009, 9:23 am
You're welcome, Spyctre - and absolutely there is hope.
Everyone is different, but as an example, as far as speech goes, I only have slight residual effects from whatever wiring prevented me from talking on (the typical average) schedule. My working memory and processing speed are lower than they could be. For instance, I have difficulty remembering verbal directions. I have to have directions written out for me if they include more than a couple of items. I also can have difficulty on timed tests because I can't process language as fast as one might expect, particularly when I am emotionally stressed. Those things aren't terrible, but being aware of them helps me to compensate.
You might want to look into "visual-spatial learners." Some people are dominant right brain hemisphere (visual-spatial) and have some difficulty accessing verbal regions that are thought to predominantly reside in the brain's left hemisphere. Right hemisphere dominance, or inefficiency in transferring signals between the right and left hemispheres, might contribute to late talking.
Z
20 Dec 2009, 9:35 am
Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician)
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college)
Individual Pattern
Majority are boys
High IQ
High analytical abilities
Extremely good memory (to photographic)*
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Late in socializing with their peers
dislike meeting new people
Fascinated with mechanical things
Like building things
Like putting puzzles together*
Strong-willed*
I put an asterisk after those where I used to fit the pattern better.
17 Nov 2010, 10:20 am
Thanks for this forum it was very insightful.
Male
High IQ I refuse to test my IQ I am more intelligent than my acquaintances and I do not need someone to inform me of this
High analytical and/or musical abilities yes
Extremely good memory (to photographic) I only sleep 3 hrs a night so my memory isnt close to photographic anymore, but it is still above average
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing not easily distracted, absorb knowledge like a sponge
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others inept in communication-writting and speaking
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers always was gifted with the use of numbers
Late in socializing with their peers I still avoid it
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences) I had to go through speech therapy
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people -Social situations give me anxiety
Fascinated with mechanical things -I think this fits most guys but yes
Like building things-rebuilt my entire house
Like putting puzzles together-I love puzzles-premedical physics major
Strong-willed ---most determined person I know
17 Nov 2010, 12:25 pm
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people -Social situations give me anxiety
Strong-willed ---most determined person I know
Hey gavin,
I'm finding that it is just fine to be a bit socially anxious but determined and productive. Welcome to the club.
Z
02 Dec 2016, 6:39 pm
Hi,
Sorry for those who might think I am ressuscitating a very old topic, but I think the discussion is still interesting, especially as I have the feeling of really fitting in the description :
- I talked late (age 4) but immediately very well
- I have a very good verbal IQ (above 150), while performance IQ is average (103)
- I have some social aloofness but I can be very social when it comes to topics I like, such as "depleted" uranium weapons.
- I was socially aloof during puberty but had lots of friends when I was a kid, and now I know I have some things that may not match my diagnosis of Asperger's : ability to read subtle social cues (including girls' social cues), and I fell in love once
- It took time to toilet train me !
So yeah, as I said I have that Asperger's diagnosis but in some elements I do not feel Asperger's now, especially I think I have a very good ability to read subtle social cues, including girls' cues, and ability to flirt (I flirted with another girl once, even though I then decided to stop flirting because of the fact I was in love with another one).
I really think that Asperger's syndrome = ability to talk very early. Stephen Camarata who is expert on late-talkers is quoted in Sowell's book as saying that diagnosing Asperger's in a late-talker is a misdiagnosis. Perhaps classical autism would be a correct diagnosis but all cases showcased in Sowell's book do not exhibit signs of classical autism at all.
_________________
Diagnosed Asperger's in 2009 but questioning his diagnosis : perhaps Einstein syndrome ? (see work by Sowell and Camarata)
02 Dec 2016, 9:17 pm
Item for item, the following list describes me with one exception: I had a reading delay in addition to the speech delay. I have also learned social skills and do well in art.
Does anyone else have "Einstein Syndrome" characteristics?
Z
Family Pattern
Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
Close Relatives Who talked late
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college)
Individual Pattern
Majority are boys
High IQ
High analytical and/or musical abilities
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Late in socializing with their peers
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people
Late in being toilet trained
Fascinated with mechanical things
Like building things
Like putting puzzles together
Strong-willed
Overlaps with characteristics of intellectually gifted and autism spectrum.
“Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”
I am still trying to figure my neurological mess out. (forgive me, it is very expensive) However, I will say this. A lot of this stuff comes down to economic privilege. I am not trying to be a mean feminist either. I come from a wealthy family. I had a LOT of behavioral and academic problems as a child/teen, but I went to private school so I never got put in special ed. My private schools did not have it. I did get a lot of extra help from my teachers and they helped me pursue my special interests. I have a high IQ, but I also was in an environment that nurtured me and "forgave" my behavioral problems.
Also, Thomas Sowell is a prominent conservative writer. Conservatives are often very prejudiced against people on the spectrum. Michael Savage even said that autism doesn't exist. Anyways, if Sowell admitted that his child had autism, the conservative pundit world would chastise him. I was raised in an extremely conservative, fundamentalist Christian family and I know the culture. They are extremely prejudiced against a lot of different groups. Trust me on this one, I'm gay.
These kids are on the spectrum and Sowell is trying to not stir the pot with his conservative bros.
03 Dec 2016, 10:54 am
I believe many children are wrongly labeled with some condition because they exhibit some markers of it. In my case, I was mislabeled as hyperactive because I had a high activity level as a child. Also, I was labeled a "slow learner" by my kindergarten teacher because I came from an ESL background. A year later, I was reading at fourth grade level in English. My social issues persisted throughout my life, even though my academic achievement was strong. It has been only in the last couple of years that I have really begun to improve socially. AS was not formally recognized as a diagnosis until 1994, and I didn't even read about it until 1997, long after I had finished my education.
03 Dec 2016, 11:29 am
These kids are on the spectrum and Sowell is trying to not stir the pot with his conservative bros.
Sowell is not denying the existence of autism / Asperger's syndrome, I think he's much smarter than his conservative "bros", he makes in his book a list of examples in which talent comes with severe social impairment and says these ARE autistic ; his point is that in some cases, some social impairment noted in children will disappear with age, while talent will stay ; he underlines a number of cases which have the common point of being late-talking savants. Indeed the case of Einstein himself, somewhat diagnosed as having Asperger's, does not concord with a diagnosis of Asperger's as Einstein was very skilled socially when he was an adult ; he was even a machist (see his words on Marie Curie).
Camarata also says that diagnosing Asperger's in a late-talker is "always an error" - which I think I can agree with. I understand Asperger's Syndrome as a syndrome in which the ability to speak, to manipulate words very well, compensates for low social skills (so the early-talking fits really with the idea of the syndrome, it seems to me a crucial element). I was diagnosed Asperger's while I talked late, and now I know that I have some very strong social skills which I didn't thought I had at the time of the diagnosis, which is why I think Sowell is right.
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Diagnosed Asperger's in 2009 but questioning his diagnosis : perhaps Einstein syndrome ? (see work by Sowell and Camarata)
03 Dec 2016, 1:24 pm
Hmm, let's see..
High IQ - mine's average and below in some areas
High analytical and/or musical abilities - I can play the keyboard with one hand. I don't know what analytical means.
Extremely good memory (to photographic) - I don't have an extremely good memory
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing - Quite the opposite. I'm easily distracted, even when doing something I enjoy.
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others - I've always struggled, even with my own interests.
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers - Nah. My maths is exceptionally poor, my reading is OK but I do sometimes miss out words or read words that aren't there, and I'm not exceptionally good with computers, being so I've given my poor laptop loads of viruses. My writing and spelling skills are the best.
Late in socializing with their peers - I was average with all that, until I was about 5-6, but I didn't fall behind exactly, I just became socially awkward.
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences) - I didn't have any speech delays
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people - I'm not a boy
Late in being toilet trained - I was easy to toilet train, and was fully toilet trained before I was 2.
Fascinated with mechanical things - Never been really
Like building things - Not particularly. I struggled with building Legos as a kid.
Like putting puzzles together - I always struggled with that too.
Strong-willed - As in confidence? I don't have confidence, otherwise I wouldn't be as underemployed as I am.
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Female
03 Dec 2016, 2:06 pm
It's been my latest fear that I was one of those kids labeled as a child when I could have just been slow and slow to mature and I might have just been a messed up child and it was other kids and the school that pushed me to a AS diagnoses and other labels. But yet I hear "difficult" children can also have disabilities like with language and learning and their personality overlaps with autism or ADD or sensory processing disorder. I also think my own personality pushed me to an AS diagnoses. All the combination of my environment and my personality pushed me to it. All this over diagnoses I have been hearing and it's not anything new because it happened in the 1980's too because that is what I read in The Difficult Child and this was the 1989 edition. The book has been revised several times throughout the tears and is still in print. It was first published in 1985. I also have the belief that more disabilities have been created and more people have them today because expectations have changed. You now need social skills for employment, education system has changed and more kids are visual now so more learning disabilities right there, kids are expected to sit still longer and there is less recess I hear, work expectations have changed too so more people have anxiety and getting diagnosed as having the disorder. I also think the autism spectrum has stretched too to include more people on it.
No I do not fit Einstein syndrome. I at first thought this was an actual condition when I first saw the book cover in high school and it was talking about kids with problems but this book is also one of those books that talks about over diagnoses and "normal" kids being labeled with a disorder.
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Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
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