The Neanderthal Theory

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and scientists say that they weren't dumb people as we assumed for so long

I can't believe you tricked me to watch this creationist BS

what about the Biblical BS?

isn't that the same more or less?

ok the 3.4 % was a stat i read here on wrong planet, i cannot quote or validat ethis source.

as for the technical and engineering prowess of japan the source is : mazda, toyata, yamaha motor vehicles
and Sony electronics.

structurd lifestyle and tradition and custom is an observation i observed while in japan aand have learned through books ( the rising sun, michael chrichton)- never receive a business card from a japanese man and place in your pocket with out fully reading it and making an offhand comment about some featur eof the card, the address, font, style etc.

everything is ritualised in interaction in japan and this is an As friendly culture.
there is no unscripted rules , everything is scripted, an AS dream

so in this society where As awkwardness is hidden by cultural protocol and scripted formalised interaction and the AS engineering technical prowess is in demand in engineering and manufacturinbg then i have inferred that AS would be at a higher prevelance and incidence if successfull japanese AS married and had AS children.

i finished by giving an associative , but easy to follow example of japanese AS friendly style where i visited japan, one of the features for me was the speed of the hotel check in.

hope this helps.

A lot of this is based on assumption about Japanese culture which may or may not be true. I need to find the sources that say that autism, not propensity towards technical innovation is higher in Japan.

Okay, the evidence for the Neanderthal theory might be only anecdotal, but what are the evidences for the other autism-theories we have? They are not even consistent with our current knowledge. Most of them look at narrow areas of functioning and invent "creative" ways to explain how the autistic brain is disrupted to allow for that particular trait. Mostly these creative explanations are not compatible with each other either, and none of them basically can explain the current (high) prevalence rate. The general rule is that disability cannot exist at the prevalence rates of autism. Then there is Simon-Baron Cohen that relies on the gender bias in DSM-characteristics of ASDs. His theory cannot survive surveying neutral traits like Aspie-quiz does. Then of course there is the correlation between ASDs, ADD/ADHD, Tourette, Dyslexia, Dyscalculia, Bipolar, Social Phobia, Eating disorders and several factors in the Big Five personality test.

So what are the actual alternatives?

If an scientific area actually have no theories that can explain all the data, and the only one that can builds on anecdotals, which one should we be researching? The ones that have proved impossible or the one that might hold promise?

People of Asian ancestry in the US have participation and Aspie rates similar to Caucasians. Therefore, I think the prevalence rates are rather similar.

I would expect them to be similar. However I have only got autism rates for in Japan 1989 and it is nowhere near 3.4 % or even 1%. However I don't expect this to be of the spectrum.

I seem to member an overall propensity of between 2% and 4%, which I worked out how it might have been calculated. These are still projections though, but better than nothing.

You know I absolutely agree with you about especially Simon-Baron Cohen. He has assumed a cult status. Also the gender bias that he talks about isn't actually to do with physical maleness, but a more abstract thing that is open to interpretation.

I think where we differ is how much projection and building on anecdotes is we find acceptable.

Last edited by 0_equals_true on 23 Sep 2008, 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

yes a lot of assumptions that havent been qualified for which i apologise.

if i was to attempt to qualify them, then the thread would stop in its tracks. people tripping up over every meaning of every word, while this is normal for AS it delays the communication of other less proven concepts and ideas for discussion.

there is, however some assumption but also i have visited and studied japanese culture so some assumptions are qualified in this context.

the point i guess is, that while AS prevelance trickles along at about 1 in 150 , in japan it is a lot higher and i am speculating as to the reasons why.
it is speculation.

but we arent in a court room with a high burden of proof.

just a discussion.

not designed to humiliate offend annoy or score points of you.

take it or leave it.

One should also remember that since DSM is based on problems and not personality-traits, prevalence of ASD diagnoses will quite likely be related to culture. If a culture is ASD-friendly, there will be fewer diagnoses. OTOH, if they use culturally unloaded screening instruments a little of this problem could be elminated, but hardly all of it.

Yes but I am interested in this figure that it is actually higher in Japan. See there is studies that show that the rate of autism when up when MMR was banned in Japan. So if you use this in an argument towards heavy metal poisoning, one would assume that they were getting the heavy metal form somewhere else…maybe an increased consumption of fish. While they do eat a lot of fish it is pretty unlikely that they increased so significantly over a few years. To counteract the supposed trend of MMR.


I think part of the problem is AS get separated from the rest of the spectrum then romanticised. If you view it as part of the spectrum, which many do, then you need to consider all of it.

Yes I agree. The DSM could be aprox 5-30 years behind current knowledge. Most of what in the DSM is based on old school 'behavioural' observation. Functional work is much rarer, but increasing.

My old university thought they found a biological eye test for ADHD. It didn't stand the test of time. As much as there is a lot of scientist toting for prizes and recognition, hopefully there will be somebody who make significant functional observations of the brain

The higher prevalence rate of Autism in Japan comes from eMedicine:

And in relation to Asperger's Disorder from its eMedcine page:

The raising rates of diagnosis pose other problems. Some people use whatever factor they like themselves to explain autism by looking at a correlation with environmental factor X. One example of this is the TV-hypothesis, that I personally find totally unfounded. Other hypothesis include MMR and environmental toxins. Basically, I can claim that any factor that have increased in the last decades could be a cause of autism, and "prove" it by correlation analysis between the factor and the rise in diagnosis. I could claim that computer use, VCR use, globalization, urbanization, cleanliness and many other factors were the cause of autism and confirm I was right with a correlation study.

These rises in diagnosis also pose big problems when comparing prevalence rates between countries, like in Japan. The comparison would depend on where on the "rise-curve" these countries are.

I also think there is a limit for how much the diagnostic ratio can possibly increase, and this is the real incidence of the traits that contributes to Autism. We are probably pretty close to this limit right know in Europe and the US, and thus would expect diagnosis to stagnate or even drop.