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anna-banana
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23 Sep 2008, 1:20 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt62769.html , this is my favorite thread ever because it truly talks about a huge majority of WP community.

Now how those threads are related?

I'll tell you why:

There are 2 main types of autisnobs:

-The Evolutionist autisnobs
-The Creationist autisnobs

-The evolutionist autisnobs(I am a extreme evolutionist btw) believe that Aspies are the beginning of a new evolved human subspecies who will be the next sentient human species after millions of years. There are even extreme evolutionist autisnobs who believe that Aspies are already a new different human species and they refer it sometimes to "homoaspie" or "homoasperger" ...something like that. And there was one or tow users who believe that the origin of Aspiness is the remaining genetic traits of the Neanderthals.

Disapproving these theories aren't hard due to the fact that Aspiness is not an advantageous evolutionary trait ...communication skills is the one the most important human skills nowadays and obsession and dedication don't compensate the lack of it since many people have obsessive traits anyways, according to some surveys most aspies die single. As for the other theory saying that Aspies are already new subspecies that's total scientific error, Aspies have the same chromosome and DNA structure of the homo sapien , people with Down Syndrome or Williams Syndrome can be scientifically seen as another human subspecies because they have a slightly modified set of chromosomes than other HomoSapiens(but that's not politically correct to say so) but aspies are 100% homosapiens and can procreate with any other HomoSapien.

Stats show that aspiness is not evolutionary advantageous nor naturally selected:
Quote:
Tantam wrote:
'the table below shows the social adjustment of 46 more able adults with autism known to have needed psychiatric help:'
No contact with a friend in last year: 70%
No sexual relationship for more than one month: 78%
Unemployed: 85%
Never Married: 98%
Resident in hospital or with parents 76%


Quote:
1% according to Tantam (the dude whose criteria is in the DSM-IV-TR)
some sources say 30%

the divorce rate is over 90% in many places.

(It's well under 0% for Autism.)


So asperger can't be a result of evolution. That's why those Evolutionist autisnobs refuse the possibility that autism might be caused by external factors because they want to believe that they are a special human subspecies.

- The Creationists' beliefs are generally amusing and funny ...the only group that can beat them in that field are the "The Creationist autisnobs" , those Creationist autisnobs are like Zionist Jews , they believe that they are mysteriously chosen by God to be created in a mysterious different way for a mysterious goal of a mysterious God's cause for the whole mankind . As like all Creationists , they say "God's ways are mysterious". I say: all this BS is a mysterious snobbish crap.

That's why those creationist autisnobs can't accept or even tolerate the possibility that their autism might be caused by any other external environmental factor because they believe that the only factor that made them so "unique" and "special" is God.


both views seem ridiculous to me as they are both extreme. remember that there's always a lot in between and ectremists will always be a minority.

even if you happen to live in US ;p


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LePetitPrince
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23 Sep 2008, 1:37 pm

rdos wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
Stats show that aspiness is not evolutionary advantageous nor naturally selected:
Quote:
Tantam wrote:
'the table below shows the social adjustment of 46 more able adults with autism known to have needed psychiatric help:'
No contact with a friend in last year: 70%
No sexual relationship for more than one month: 78%
Unemployed: 85%
Never Married: 98%
Resident in hospital or with parents 76%


Quote:
1% according to Tantam (the dude whose criteria is in the DSM-IV-TR)
some sources say 30%

the divorce rate is over 90% in many places.

(It's well under 0% for Autism.)



Your statistics are very probably totally false. :wink:

The truth is, people doing Aspie-quiz reproduce at about the same rate as NTs. They do have higher divorce statistics, but it is far from 90%.

This just shows that if you use improper methods to create your statistics, the results will be unúsable. Only surveying a psychiatric population without looking at people with similar traits will create bogus results.



Well ....let's see it in that way....Which would be more credible?

A full well-documents stats study done by the National Autistic Society or some stats based on an online quiz?

Sorry but I would choose the first one.



LePetitPrince
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23 Sep 2008, 1:40 pm

anna-banana wrote:



both views seem ridiculous to me as they are both extreme. remember that there's always a lot in between and ectremists will always be a minority.

even if you happen to live in US ;p


both views are insanely VERY COMMON here.

No,I don't live in the US ,far from it ...I live in the zone of worst extremisms in the world.



anna-banana
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23 Sep 2008, 1:49 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
anna-banana wrote:



both views seem ridiculous to me as they are both extreme. remember that there's always a lot in between and ectremists will always be a minority.

even if you happen to live in US ;p


both views are insanely VERY COMMON here.

No,I don't live in the US ,far from it ...I live in the zone of worst extremisms in the world.


yeah this all seems unreal to me (both the fact that those views are so common here and that extremisms can get as ridiculously extreme as where you're at...)

hopefully this madness will end one day, either with the extermination of us rational thinkers or of them bloody extremists... hopefully the latter ;p


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Loborojo
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23 Sep 2008, 1:52 pm

the entire idea of being a superspecies seem so ridiculous. We should simply accept that there is no species that is perfect, and that all of them can produce individuals with lots of flaws and disabilities, why try and figure out that we were perfect in the first place???


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anna-banana
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23 Sep 2008, 1:56 pm

Loborojo wrote:
the entire idea of being a superspecies seem so ridiculous. We should simply accept that there is no species that is perfect, and that all of them can produce individuals with lots of flaws and disabilities, why try and figure out that we were perfect in the first place???


exactly, especially since even evolutionists don't claim that evolution is a progressive process, it only makes creatures better fit for the environment they happen to live in, whatever it might be.

maybe one day the surroundings are going to favour people with ASDs although I find that a bit hard to imagine...


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LostInSpace
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23 Sep 2008, 2:05 pm

rdos wrote:
I'd think it would be elementary stastics that if you have 12% black balls in a basket, and pull balls thousands of times, you will end up with close to 12% black balls. :roll:


That analogy is very faulty, but it you can't see why, then there's no point in continuing this discussion. We went through all this months ago. Have you ever taken a graduate level, or even a college level statistics class?


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Loborojo
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23 Sep 2008, 2:06 pm

anna-banana wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
the entire idea of being a superspecies seem so ridiculous. We should simply accept that there is no species that is perfect, and that all of them can produce individuals with lots of flaws and disabilities, why try and figure out that we were perfect in the first place???


exactly, especially since even evolutionists don't claim that evolution is a progressive process, it only makes creatures better fit for the environment they happen to live in, whatever it might be.

maybe one day the surroundings are going to favour people with ASDs although I find that a bit hard to imagine...


mmmh, I also question that Japan would be a more suitable environment for us aspies. A society so full of rules, how could we live and abide by conscripts. I already have a hard battle uphill to listen to the NT rules in the West :cry:


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rdos
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23 Sep 2008, 2:16 pm

LostInSpace wrote:
rdos wrote:
I'd think it would be elementary stastics that if you have 12% black balls in a basket, and pull balls thousands of times, you will end up with close to 12% black balls. :roll:


That analogy is very faulty, but it you can't see why, then there's no point in continuing this discussion. We went through all this months ago. Have you ever taken a graduate level, or even a college level statistics class?


Last I checked it was at the MSc level :wink:



rdos
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23 Sep 2008, 2:19 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
Well ....let's see it in that way....Which would be more credible?

A full well-documents stats study done by the National Autistic Society or some stats based on an online quiz?

Sorry but I would choose the first one.


That's an easy choice. I don't believe a word about what NAS has to say. They are just pushing their own agenda.



Ishmael
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23 Sep 2008, 2:24 pm

rdos wrote:
LostInSpace wrote:
rdos wrote:
I'd think it would be elementary stastics that if you have 12% black balls in a basket, and pull balls thousands of times, you will end up with close to 12% black balls. :roll:


That analogy is very faulty, but it you can't see why, then there's no point in continuing this discussion. We went through all this months ago. Have you ever taken a graduate level, or even a college level statistics class?


Last I checked it was at the MSc level :wink:


Well then, remind me to destroy the facilities you attended - for the sake of future generations. Well, no, that may not be fair... they may simply have passed you to be rid of you sooner, that must be it.


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srriv345
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23 Sep 2008, 2:24 pm

LostInSpace wrote:
Ishmael wrote:
New rule: ignore what rdos says.


New rule? I've had that rule for a while. Ever since I couldn't seem to make him understand that the sample of Aspies who take his quiz online aren't necessarily representative of the Aspie population as a whole, especially regarding demographics like race. Statistics: Learn it, live it.


I agree with that. There are all sorts of problems with using a voluntary response survey as "evidence" for a scientific theorum. I also wonder if racial essentialist tripe like this coming from the aspie community don't alienate aspies of African descent. Besides, most African-Americans have some white ancestry, anyway, and it's not surprising that people in Africa are less interested in filling out onlines surveys, and/or less able to because of lack of access.

There is one human species. All of us are too genetically similar to each other to be considered separate species in the way that a poodle is a different species than a labrador. Some suggested reading: The Race Myth by Dr. Joseph Graves. I haven't read all of it yet, but I have heard Dr. Graves speak and he makes a lot of sense.

I'm a biffed why there's this big push to discover a "reason" for the autism spectrum. What is wrong with the explanation that autism is a part of natural human variation? I see it as a bell curve, though perhaps not a normal distribution. I'm sure many of us have relatives who have more autistic traits than "typical," but not extreme enough that it would qualify as any kind of impairment. An autism diagnosis depends on where a particular person chooses to draw the line on the bell curve, but autism is still part of natural variation just as some people are born 6'10" tall and others have dwarfism.



rdos
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23 Sep 2008, 2:33 pm

srriv345 wrote:
I agree with that. There are all sorts of problems with using a voluntary response survey as "evidence" for a scientific theorum. I also wonder if racial essentialist tripe like this coming from the aspie community don't alienate aspies of African descent. Besides, most African-Americans have some white ancestry, anyway, and it's not surprising that people in Africa are less interested in filling out onlines surveys, and/or less able to because of lack of access.


The comparison was made in the US, with African Americans, using Asians and American Indians as controls. Results have been replicated seven times, with several years in between.

srriv345 wrote:
Some suggested reading: The Race Myth by Dr. Joseph Graves. I haven't read all of it yet, but I have heard Dr. Graves speak and he makes a lot of sense.


Try Race, Evolution and Behavior by JP Rushton for a different perspective.



rdos
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23 Sep 2008, 2:39 pm

Ishmael wrote:
Well then, remind me to destroy the facilities you attended - for the sake of future generations. Well, no, that may not be fair... they may simply have passed you to be rid of you sooner, that must be it.


You don't need to be so emotional about it. Try using the scientific method next time you evaluate the Neanderthal theory :wink:



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23 Sep 2008, 2:48 pm

Quote:
1% according to Tantam (the dude whose criteria is in the DSM-IV-TR)
some sources say 30%

the divorce rate is over 90% in many places.

(It's well under 0% for Autism.)


i cant believe you missed this one.
this is my favourite quote of the day.

a negative divorce rate in Autism?

not just negative, but well under......
i had a good chuckle.

at this one.

what does it mean?
who do itell?


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rdos
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23 Sep 2008, 2:51 pm

donkey wrote:
a negative divorce rate in Autism?


A negative divorce rate can mean just one thing, a bogus investigation. :D