Asperger Syndrome vs. Borderline Personality Disorder

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One psychiatrists actaully diagnosed and treated me for schizophrenia. The psychaitrist i see now doesnt think i have schziophrenia. He has read my file which is alot and goes back to when i was a child.
He diagnosed me in Axis II Borderline Personality Disorder and i can go psychotic or have psychotic symptoms. Different than some one with schziophrenia. He has still prescribed me antipsychotics.
Personally, i dont understand personality disorders.
I have developmental disability as well, mild autism. The psychaitrists put that i am chronically and severly disabled in terms of having what he thinks is BPD.
I think the psychaitrists dont know what they are talking about and they make me mad.
I have always been quiet and regarded as having a pleasant personality but like my case manager said not being able to control my emotions and being impulsive. I dont usually end up at the hospital when i am like that. Usaully prison and they too say i have impulse control and can get a bit emotional.
This time i knew i wasnt coping and starting to feel crazy and i kept saying to myself 'dont do anything stupid' and get help. I dont know how i ended up at the hospital or seeing the psychaitrists. Atleast i havnt had to go to prison and i am only up for resist arrest and possess a dangerous weapon.
I try to be in control and ask for help when i am not feeling so well.
Instead of trying to take the world on and it is stress related. All the times i have not been myself is when i am not adjusting. Like they will often put adjustment disorder. Which people with autism dont like changes and i cant handle too much stress. Who can..?

My Psychiatrist diagnosed me as BPD three years ago without my knowledge. I only knew of it after another consultant Psych I was seeing mentioned it.

If you don't fit the criteria of any other Psychiatric disorder under the DSM-IV and treatment resistant, they'll just stamp you off as Boarderline. They might aswell diagnose people as 'human toxic waste', since BPD cases are regarded as untreatable and troublesome within the mental health system. I'm far from meeting the criteria for an 'eractic-dramatic' personality disorder. I haven't even had enough relationships to destroy any of them or become afraid of abandonment.

I was married to a man dx with borderline and adhd.

On the surface I do believe these two things can look similar but they are completely different as to underlying causes.

My now ex-husband was/is a master manipulator. Nothing could be further from AS than that. He was/is also an adept liar and petty criminal. I don't think that is common of AS either.

Two kids walk into a room, in the middle of which sits a rubber ball.

KID #1: "A toy!"

KID #2: "That's not a toy, it's a sphere. My friend has a toy and it looks nothing like that."

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I'd suggest that many of you do not understand the nature of the brain/mind.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2464584

More on the correlation between ADHD/Asperger's and BPD here: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt124789.html

Borderline is totally different, I was misdiagnosed with that about 15 years ago. Social problems of borderliners have more to do with being extremely demanding, and many borderliners can be manipulative and lie, its hard to keep a friendship with such a person. You either disappoint them or you get fed up by being told lies yourself. Substance abuse is another distinctive feature, which is not very common among aspies as I have been told. ( I may seem a bit bitter because I have had bad experience with some borderliners.)

[quote="pwjb"]What are the key differences ? Eye contact ?[/quote

They have NOTHING in common. Asperger's is really just another way to be. BPD is a very serious mental illness.

Yes, very different. My ex-husband also has BPD and my kids have ASD/PDD-NOS, and they are radically different. My kids might have melt downs and strong feelings but it's because they are on sensory overload. He had melt downs because he had massive emotional needs that he felt weren't being met no matter what anybody did to meet him. He was emotionally insatiable and constantly manipulated and abused the people around him to test their love in an attempt to try to fill his needs. It was also cyclical. He'd go through phases of being nice and interesting, it was how he'd get close enough to people to manipulate and abuse them. My kids are the way they are all the time, they aren't deceptive.

That is wildly false.

Nothing? People with each are both human. They have lots in common.

Asperger's and BPD, they aren't things. They don't exist apart from the people labeled with them. And when you compare the people, you sure can't say they have NOTHING in common. We're human. We think. We feel.

Oh, and addition to all those general human things in common, both have social difficulties. I've spent enough time on a BPD message board to know that. And while there are differences in the nature of those difficulties, still, there's also definite overlap.

The stereotypes of the two disorders may be harshly contrasted, but when you get down to real people, real life, it's not so simple.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/con ... 163/7/1239

What I know about borderline personality disorder is that it is largely caused by abuse. Most people who fit the criteria have been sexually or physically abused. (I am not just making broad generalizations. I've read studies on it.) Asperger's doesn't have a definite cause, right? One similar thing is that they may both me emotionally immature. Someone with asperger's might be at the level of a little kid (I don't know. I've heard that people with asperger's are at a low level emotionally with people), and people with borderline are at a level of a little kid when it comes to attachment and relating to people. If they were abused, they never really learned how to have healthy relationships and can still be stuck there. Also, I've read that people with asperger's can't lie well..? I'm not sure if this is true, but I know that people with BPD are often manipulative to get what they want, and can lie. There isn't really any positives to BPD. I think 'disorder' fits it's criteria well. Another thing is, they often feel on edge all the time, feel depressed, feel worthless, have a low self image, and other negative feelings, while people with asperger's don't have emotionslike that directly related to asperger's. I'm not saying they can't feel depressed, but it's not in the criteria for it. Both seem to be disorders largely related to how they interact with people. Borderline personality disorder is often noticed because of the way they act in interpersonal relationships.

People with borderline personality disorder can often use guilt trips to make people feel guilty and get what they want. I'm not even sure someone with asperger's would care to do this, know how to do this, or even need a reason..?


Another thing is lack of identity. A lot of people with BPD don't really know who they are or what they like. They change according to the person or situation. From what I've read, people with asperger's are into the subject of interest all the time, and talk to many people about that one particular thing they are into. I think people with asperger's might change themselves once they learn more social skills and appropriate ways to act with people, but naturally, they probably stick to themselves and what they like to do. I think they have more of a stable self-identity than people with BPD.

Another thing. Both have a hard time reading people, but in opposite ways. People with asperger's generally won't be able to read into people or their motives that much, while people with BPD over do it, and come up with extreme accusations. I don't really like to talk about asperger's on an asperger's forum, because I probably am wrong and don't know much about it, but here's two situations I think might represent he similarly. Okay, say a person with asperger's and BPD have a spouse who comes home late. In the asperger's person, pretend the spouse was cheating and is not really a good liar. If the spouse is saying they were out late at work, the person with asperger's might not be able to tell if the spouse is lying by the facial expressions and demeanor, so they could just believe it. With BPD, pretend the spouse is actually innocent. The person with BPD will study them and accuse them, analyze their facial expressions, claim this whole made up cheating situation, and will act irrationally. In both situations, they were wrong, but for different reasons.

Also, both can react to external influences. Everyone is affected by external factors, but people with BPD are especially. This is what kind of differentiates it from bipolar. Bipolar moods last long first off, but it's believed to be caused by internal factors, like a chemical imbalance. People with BPD change moods because of people or things that happen to them, not because of internal factors. People with asperger's probably react a lot to outside sources, like disrupted routine, things that bother them if they have sensory problems, etc.

I've heard people compare sociopaths to people with asperger's more often though.

On the site sociopathworld..the guy has talked about them a lot..I can't post links since I haven't had this account for five days yet, but he says:

"aspies are like the prom king of personality disorders. that's right, you heard me aspies. i called you personality disordered. money quote of how much people love aspies, discussing the film "adam":
"Mr. Mayer, 54, grew up on the Upper West Side and was interested in developmental psychology before being drawn into theater and film. He says the inspiration for “Adam” came when he heard a radio interview about Asperger’s while driving in California and became so “emotionally involved” that he had to pull off the road."
imagine if people wrote this sort of stuff about sociopathy:
“Adam is about life, not his disability,” said Jonathan Kaufman, the founder of the Manhattan-based consulting agency DisabilityWorks Inc., who worked as a technical adviser on the film. “It uses his Asperger’s as the lens that colors his life, not the central focal point. It’s about relationships, love, family. The illness is not separate from the person.”
yeah, i think it is tragic that they have no empathy, are completely focused on one thing (themselves), and are a leech on society's resources. who else does that sound like? can we be your prom queen, aspies? we're meant for each other."

"aspies and sociopaths have a unique relationship with one another. asperger syndrome is a personality disorder on the autism spectrum that is commonly described as or confused with high-functioning autism. asperger syndrome is characterized by "a lack of empathy, little ability to form friendships, one-sided conversation, intense absorption in a special interest, and clumsy movements." it was originally labeled "autistic psychopathy." aspies are very similar to sociopaths, with the most obvious exception being that sociopaths are socially charming and aspies are socially awkward. despite the lack of empathy, one of the core traits of a sociopath, aspies are treated as totally legitimate in our society. even though aspies seem to be sociopath eunuchs, their childishness and naivete is what makes them palatable to the rest of society.

this is a cain and abel scenario. in steinbeck's "east of eden," the cain characters are all smart, cunning, and effective. cathy is the prototypical sociopath. the abel characters are clueless. their redeeming values are their guilelessness and ineffectiveness. they are the absence of bad, rather than the presence of good. the flighty abel characters would be nothing without the hard-working cain characters. and yet everyone always loves the abel characters and hates the cain characters. and the Lord had no regard for cain and his offering. cain was furious, and he was downcast.

there is a lot of aspie pride. "celebrate neuro diversity" "why be normal?" there is also quite a bit of aspie hate for sociopaths. aspies villainize sociopaths and don't even want them discussed in the same breath, even though there are clear links between autism and "bad sociopath" behavior. the disparate treatment of these two classifications of individuals have some wondering, why? and how are sociopaths supposed to react to this unequal treatment? not at all to endorse this type of behavior, but i know how one famous sociopath reacted.

cain said to his brother abel, "let's go out to the field." and while they were in the field, cain attacked his brother abel and killed him"

"oh no aspies! i just heard the bad news that "the man" is basically trying to kick your unique diagnosis to the curb and lump you amongst the (relatively more) unwashed masses (i.e., auties). i hope this doesn't jeopardize your social status amongst your neurodiversity cohorts! a reader flagged this new york times op-ed for me:
Many people with milder symptoms of autism have, for the past 20 years or so, received a diagnosis of Asperger’s disorder. Some autistic adults call themselves “Aspies” to celebrate their talents and differences. And many parents have embraced the label because they have found it less stigmatizing, and so it has eased their sense of loss.

This may soon change, however. The American Psychiatric Association, with its release this week of proposed revisions to its authoritative Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, is recommending that Asperger’s be dropped. If this revision is adopted, the condition will be folded into the category of “autism spectrum disorder,” which will no longer contain any categories for distinct subtypes of autism like Asperger’s and “pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified” (a category for children with some traits of autism but not enough to warrant a diagnosis).
wow, there goes your social life, right? it's just like when your rich parents got divorced and you had to move to the wrong side of the tracks with your mom and shop at flea markets for your black leather jacket and army boots that were so ugly and ill-fitting, they distracted anyone from seeing the pain/shame inside. but don't worry, aspies, i am diagnosis blind when it comes to personality disorders. i accept all empathy-challenged types here. small comfort, you say? yeah, i know that you have traditionally considered yourself too good for sociopaths, but this may be as good of an offer as you are going to get now."


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He sounds a bit jealous..and there's more posts on it..

re misdiagnosing studies have shown females get dx'd borderline and males antisocial PD for the same traits and behaviors.

I think in particular face-blindness and mind-blindness are not problems for borderlines. I also don't think they flatline, monologue, whatever.

Here's another thing to think about

The diagnostic criteria of "Borderline Personality Disorder" were originally described by a psychoanalyst in regards to adults.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoanalysis

The diagnostic criteria of Asperger's were originally described by a pediatrician in regards to children.

The difference is that the DDA of the brain in the former is described within the framework of psychoanalysis, and in the latter, it's described within the framework of childhood behavior.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1188508/

Part of the reason Asperger's is so tricky is that a person with Asperger's often does not display what would have traditionally been considered "obvious" signs of "organic" neurological insult. One of the things that Hans Asperger accomplished in his famous paper was to expand the notion of what "organic" neurological insult looked like in terms of a child's behavior, so that children whose atypical behavior would've previously been thought of as "psychological" in nature could be understood to have "organic" insult to the brain.

I find it rather silly that people are making statements like, "Well, bordies manipulate, lie, etc. --and that sounds like the opposite of Asperger's." Statements like that ignore the diversity of Asperger's and buy into/perpetuate the rather cartoonish caricature of Asperger's that's so prevalent in the media. You folks, of all people, should understand that any statement that includes the words "that's not Asperger's" is to be examined with a great deal of skepticism.

By the way, BPD and ADHD are broadly associated. Obviously, ADHD and Asperger's are also broadly associated.

It is clear that the relationship of these diagnoses would be most accurately represented by a Venn diagram, one that includes a great deal of overlap.

Actually, a good percentage of people with BPD weren't abused. I think the stat I've seen is 70% of people with BPD were abused. Reverse that. 30% of people with BPD were not abused. (Even if that stat's not exact, it's in that area.) Abuse is not a factor. It comes from other things.

My theory... unrecognized repeated trauma. That is, experiences that are, subjectively, traumatic. Having repeated traumatic experiences as a child and not having help coping with them. Abuse is simply the most common form of that, but not the only form.

You make some nice points in the rest of your post. I do get the impression that it's common for those with Austim/Asperger's to be emotionally immature. My theory is that comes from a lack of role models. That is, not learning emotional skills because one can't pick up those skills from watching others, due to less ability to read others and/or lack of people like them to be examples. With BPD, I would say, not only is there also emotional immaturity, but it's a core trait. Not usually worded that way, but, still, it's pretty central to BPD.

And I again want to note, when comparing and contrasting these two disorders, we need to keep in mind that both have variation. I believe it's possible to have both. But I also think they can be quite dramatically different; that, yes, you can take a person with AS and a person with BPD and find that have little or nothing in common. The core traits are different. But, in the real world, people are a lot more than the core traits, and when you look at the whole picture, for a variety of individuals, the difference isn't so dramatic. Having autistic traits does not prevent BPD. Well, okay, some combinations of traits, do, I do. But not all.

It's not "borderlines" it's "individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder. You are right that faceblindness is not generally a problem. But it's not impossible for it to be present. So, BPD and AS both, faceblindness can be present or absent. The difference is in how common it is.

The same for any of the differences we are talking about.