Asperger Syndrome vs. Borderline Personality Disorder

Post Reply New Topic

Actually, a good percentage of people with BPD weren't abused. I think the stat I've seen is 70% of people with BPD were abused. Reverse that. 30% of people with BPD were not abused. (Even if that stat's not exact, it's in that area.) Abuse is not a factor. It comes from other things.

My theory... unrecognized repeated trauma. That is, experiences that are, subjectively, traumatic. Having repeated traumatic experiences as a child and not having help coping with them. Abuse is simply the most common form of that, but not the only form.

It's not "borderlines" it's "individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder. You are right that faceblindness is not generally a problem. But it's not impossible for it to be present. So, BPD and AS both, faceblindness can be present or absent. The difference is in how common it is.

The same for any of the differences we are talking about.

I am not sure I understand the difference between abuse and subjective trauma.

Alice Miller in particular illustrated very well that it is not trauma but repressed trauma that causes neuroses but the concept goes back to Freudian times, lack of validation of any kind and support are what contribute.

it is very common and accepted to refer to people with bpd as borderline. and I intend to continue to say "aspie" as well, instead of "individuals with asperger syndrome".

I can hardly be called "disabled" after all the activities I've done and I've done and my academic success. I have been physically fit. I can engage in dangerous activities (with appropriate support) like chemistry experiments, letting off fire-works, swimming, ice-skating, horse-back riding and abseiling, with competence and patience. I've known lots of other people who lacked self-control and behaved irresponsibly in these situations. I also know lots people who have never done/can't do these activities. I have no trouble with the mechanics of each activity, it's dealing with people that I find a little scary.

I don't understand the point of this particular thread because I can't understand why someone would consider AS being the same as BPD.

I believe myself to have AS and BPD. I do not fit all the criteria of BPD and the only one that crosses over with AS would be my relationships with others. Sometimes I am confused about my relationships; if they are struggling because of my lack of making a connection with them or if it's my occasional rejection of them with paranoia, frustration and fear.

I was wondering too what the point of the thread was. And the original poster never did adequately explain. But there were some interesting posts from others in the thread talking about commonalities.

Just because I find something traumatic does not mean the other person was abusive. Just because I don't know how to cope with something does not mean the other person was wrong. Anything I don't know how to cope with can be traumatic. Anything. It's only abuse if someone else is behaving inappropriately towards me.

What are the key differences ? Eye contact ?

I know this is old, but my uncle has BPD so I'm very well versed in the differences.

First, I'd like to so, that though BPD may have a genetic component, I do think it depends on a lot on environment.

A person with BPD has a volatile, unstable perspective on the world and their relationships with others and their perspectives can border on paranoia and psychosis.

If someone wrongs them in some way, no matter how slight, if they think it's intentional they will often deem the wrong an unforgiveable sin, and the person who commited it a mortal enemy.

My uncle once threatened to disown my cousin because they were supposed to meet for lunch and she called to cancel at the last minute after she had promised she wouldn't.
In fact he left messages on everyone's answering machine informing everyone of this in quite an emotional manner.

They become paranoid about these people who they have dubbed enemies, and they cannot distinguish between their speculations and reality.

They will become just as mad from a memory of something as they do from the actual incident, even if it happened many years ago.

They are very self centered. When life is going well for them they are oblivious to the difficulties of others, and when life is going poorly for them they have a hard time realizing it isn't the end of the world. Most of these ups and downs are directly related to relationships.

When my uncle has a girlfriend, the world is wonderful and he wants to marry her.
When they break up it's either because she did something unforgivable or she wasn't perfect enough for him, meaning, she wasn't going about life the "right" way.

When they mess up they are just as unforgiving of themselves as they are of others, and tend to have strong feelings of self hate.

They are blinded by their emotions, have a very difficult time maintaining perspective and enough self awareness to prevent themselves from making the same mistakes over and over again. This is why most people in the mental health field will not deal with them.

So it's totally different than AS.

On the site sociopathworld..the guy has talked about them a lot..I can't post links since I haven't had this account for five days yet, but he says:

"aspies are like the prom king of personality disorders. that's right, you heard me aspies. i called you personality disordered. money quote of how much people love aspies, discussing the film "adam":
"Mr. Mayer, 54, grew up on the Upper West Side and was interested in developmental psychology before being drawn into theater and film. He says the inspiration for “Adam” came when he heard a radio interview about Asperger’s while driving in California and became so “emotionally involved” that he had to pull off the road."
imagine if people wrote this sort of stuff about sociopathy:
“Adam is about life, not his disability,” said Jonathan Kaufman, the founder of the Manhattan-based consulting agency DisabilityWorks Inc., who worked as a technical adviser on the film. “It uses his Asperger’s as the lens that colors his life, not the central focal point. It’s about relationships, love, family. The illness is not separate from the person.”
yeah, i think it is tragic that they have no empathy, are completely focused on one thing (themselves), and are a leech on society's resources. who else does that sound like? can we be your prom queen, aspies? we're meant for each other."

"aspies and sociopaths have a unique relationship with one another. asperger syndrome is a personality disorder on the autism spectrum that is commonly described as or confused with high-functioning autism. asperger syndrome is characterized by "a lack of empathy, little ability to form friendships, one-sided conversation, intense absorption in a special interest, and clumsy movements." it was originally labeled "autistic psychopathy." aspies are very similar to sociopaths, with the most obvious exception being that sociopaths are socially charming and aspies are socially awkward. despite the lack of empathy, one of the core traits of a sociopath, aspies are treated as totally legitimate in our society. even though aspies seem to be sociopath eunuchs, their childishness and naivete is what makes them palatable to the rest of society.

this is a cain and abel scenario. in steinbeck's "east of eden," the cain characters are all smart, cunning, and effective. cathy is the prototypical sociopath. the abel characters are clueless. their redeeming values are their guilelessness and ineffectiveness. they are the absence of bad, rather than the presence of good. the flighty abel characters would be nothing without the hard-working cain characters. and yet everyone always loves the abel characters and hates the cain characters. and the Lord had no regard for cain and his offering. cain was furious, and he was downcast.

there is a lot of aspie pride. "celebrate neuro diversity" "why be normal?" there is also quite a bit of aspie hate for sociopaths. aspies villainize sociopaths and don't even want them discussed in the same breath, even though there are clear links between autism and "bad sociopath" behavior. the disparate treatment of these two classifications of individuals have some wondering, why? and how are sociopaths supposed to react to this unequal treatment? not at all to endorse this type of behavior, but i know how one famous sociopath reacted.

cain said to his brother abel, "let's go out to the field." and while they were in the field, cain attacked his brother abel and killed him"

"oh no aspies! i just heard the bad news that "the man" is basically trying to kick your unique diagnosis to the curb and lump you amongst the (relatively more) unwashed masses (i.e., auties). i hope this doesn't jeopardize your social status amongst your neurodiversity cohorts! a reader flagged this new york times op-ed for me:
Many people with milder symptoms of autism have, for the past 20 years or so, received a diagnosis of Asperger’s disorder. Some autistic adults call themselves “Aspies” to celebrate their talents and differences. And many parents have embraced the label because they have found it less stigmatizing, and so it has eased their sense of loss.

This may soon change, however. The American Psychiatric Association, with its release this week of proposed revisions to its authoritative Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, is recommending that Asperger’s be dropped. If this revision is adopted, the condition will be folded into the category of “autism spectrum disorder,” which will no longer contain any categories for distinct subtypes of autism like Asperger’s and “pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified” (a category for children with some traits of autism but not enough to warrant a diagnosis).
wow, there goes your social life, right? it's just like when your rich parents got divorced and you had to move to the wrong side of the tracks with your mom and shop at flea markets for your black leather jacket and army boots that were so ugly and ill-fitting, they distracted anyone from seeing the pain/shame inside. but don't worry, aspies, i am diagnosis blind when it comes to personality disorders. i accept all empathy-challenged types here. small comfort, you say? yeah, i know that you have traditionally considered yourself too good for sociopaths, but this may be as good of an offer as you are going to get now."


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He sounds a bit jealous..and there's more posts on it..

I know this is old, but my uncle has BPD so I'm very well versed in the differences.

First, I'd like to so, that though BPD may have a genetic component, I do think it depends on a lot on environment.

A person with BPD has a volatile, unstable perspective on the world and their relationships with others and their perspectives can border on paranoia and psychosis.

If someone wrongs them in some way, no matter how slight, if they think it's intentional they will often deem the wrong an unforgiveable sin, and the person who commited it a mortal enemy.

My uncle once threatened to disown my cousin because they were supposed to meet for lunch and she called to cancel at the last minute after she had promised she wouldn't.
In fact he left messages on everyone's answering machine informing everyone of this in quite an emotional manner.

They become paranoid about these people who they have dubbed enemies, and they cannot distinguish between their speculations and reality.

They will become just as mad from a memory of something as they do from the actual incident, even if it happened many years ago.

They are very self centered. When life is going well for them they are oblivious to the difficulties of others, and when life is going poorly for them they have a hard time realizing it isn't the end of the world. Most of these ups and downs are directly related to relationships.

When my uncle has a girlfriend, the world is wonderful and he wants to marry her.
When they break up it's either because she did something unforgivable or she wasn't perfect enough for him, meaning, she wasn't going about life the "right" way.

When they mess up they are just as unforgiving of themselves as they are of others, and tend to have strong feelings of self hate.

They are blinded by their emotions, have a very difficult time maintaining perspective and enough self awareness to prevent themselves from making the same mistakes over and over again. This is why most people in the mental health field will not deal with them.

So it's totally different than AS.

If someone wrongs them in some way, no matter how slight, if they think it's intentional they will often deem the wrong an unforgivable sin, and the person who committed it a mortal enemy.

Just because I find something traumatic does not mean the other person was abusive. Just because I don't know how to cope with something does not mean the other person was wrong. Anything I don't know how to cope with can be traumatic. Anything. It's only abuse if someone else is behaving inappropriately towards me.

AS can cause a situation other people do not consider 'traumatic' to be so. If you get used to blaming anything 'outside' yourself as the problem, and anything inside yourself is considered 'common sense' (when we actually don't have the 'common sense') I can see where people with AS can be observed by others as people with BPD. The reasons they got to the same symptoms are radically different, though.

Merle