Asperger Syndrome vs. Borderline Personality Disorder

Post Reply New Topic

That sounds awfully familiar.

They are hugely different, in cause, symptomology and 'treatment' as it were.

BPD folks have social issues only because they have very poor boundaries, not because they can't 'read' others. Being an Axis II disorder (and it really is a disorder, unlike ASD, IMHO), those who have BPD frequently cannot understand why others think they are different -- they have poor insight, and expect the world to behave as they wish. This is quite different from most Aspies, who are often painfully aware of how they are 'different'.

Also, BPD is all about emotions -- huge, dramatic, emotions -- people with BPD frequently are cutters, attempt suicide, make grandiose plays for affection, and can be very manipulative. They tend to be emotionally explosive when they don't get what they want, and can make (and execute) threats against others.

My ex-husband's girlfriend has BPD -- I was pregnant when he left me, and this woman threatened to kill me and my unborn baby because I had the temerity to get pregnant with her boyfriend. Nevermind that I didn't know they were having an affair or that he was MY HUSBAND.

THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is BPD.

Can you really act "aspie"? As evidenced by this website, Aspies are very diverse and the symptoms manifest themselves differently in different people with certain commonalities.

That is because people with BPD don't understand appropriate emotional reactions the way people with AS don't understand appropriate social cues, which is why I feel like its emotional autism.

And I am VERY and disturbingly aware of how I am different for the record. And I don't expect the world to be my way and I try to understand people and I am not intentionally manipulative. Its frustrating for people with BPD to not have their expectations met. The way someone with AS might get frustrated with having their routine broken, when their expectations are not met.

I'm sorry that you had such a terrible and indeed troubling experience with a borderline, but that's not how BPD is defined.

Oh really? Later you say that BPD is "all about emotions." It can't be the case that their social issues are only due to poor boundaries set or perceived by the person with BPD if the whole disorder is "all about emotions."



The problems experienced by those with AS are well-documented. The positive aspects of BPD (high emotional perception) are less documented but they have been noted.



Oh really? It isn't about perception? The delusions of abandonment? Later you define BPD as certain behaviors. If it were all about emotions (like something like depression and bi-polar are), you wouldn't dwell nearly as much on the nasty behaviors of those with BPD, you would instead focus on the emotions involved (emotions which are very difficult to pinpoint in people with BPD, just like they are with aspies, I might add).



You just listed all of the worst ways in which BPD is manifested. Someone could write a similarly nasty spiel about aspies.



And the source of your undeniable bias is revealed.

so, saying you have developed BPD over the years from being Asperger's from birth.

How do they know what can be 'fixed' with BPD treatment and what is "unfixable" with ASD?


Merle

Its just a hypothesis and I have no idea how they will fix me.

I mean, there are "fixable" symptoms of AS, you can learn to read facial expressions, what appropriate social cues are, just as Borderlines learn how to manage emotions and what appropriate emotions are.

What you can't change are the physiological symptoms which are recognized in AS but not in BPD, an Aspie will probably never get over sensory issues.

But speaking as Borderline, I am notoriously clumsy, can't handle loud noises, didn't wear denim until I was 13 because I couldn't stand the way it felt and would cry when warm water was poured on my head in the bath. I still have trouble handling the shower/ really resent it, and often take baths because of this. Don't think that's going to change with therapy.

Um, yes. That is how you can differentiate between Aspies and NTs without reading their minds. How do you know the people around you are (probable) NTs except based on behavioral characteristics? I'm pretty sure George Bush isn't an Aspie for example. Internal perceptual differences are accompanied by outward behavioral differences.

How were the people on here with an official diagnosis identified if not by a professional who was able to see outward signs of AS? (it is not diagnosed solely based on self-report of internal experiences) Until we learn more about the neurology behind AS, the only way to diagnose is based on a combination of behavior and self-report of internal perceptions (and for young children, just behavior).

I've known a number of Aspies in real life (as well as others I have suspected of being on the spectrum but don't know for sure), so I am well aware that there is no single Aspie behavioral code. However, if you are familiar with many people on the spectrum, it is quite possible to recognize certain common characteristics. Several of my friends in college I suspected to be Aspies before I found out that they were diagnosed. My ex-boyfriend for one. Based on my many experiences with those on the spectrum, my friend does not seem Aspie to be at all.

Last edited by LostInSpace on 04 Oct 2008, 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AS and BPD aren't mutually exclusive diagnoses. It is also possible to be borderline and have problems with sensory integration without AS. But that does not mean that these symptoms are part of BPD. Or did I miss the point of the post? I'm just trying to say that you may have AS and BPD, and if that is the case, then how can you know what is BPD and what is AS, except by looking at cases of BPD without AS?

I just don't there is one definitive way to identify an aspie. And behavior/observation isn't the only factor that goes into diagnosis.

Frequently, family members are asked for their options on the persons social interaction, sometimes a facial recognition test is used, talking to the person to see how they feel on the inside not just how s/he acts on the outside.

You can't look at any given person and say "oh s/he's an aspie" I'm sure with some people you can, but I've known people on the spectrum that to my perception act perfectly "NT" as you say, but then later I found out were diagnosed with AS. Also, the opposite is true. My boyfriend and I have hypothesized many an Aspie and been wrong...

Also, I don't think BPD should be part of AS or that they are the same condition, I just think there are traits in BPD that are like AS which would make it closer to a PDD than a personality disorder, which it is currently known as.

I like how I feel after the shower but I intensely resent/resist getting into one. The water on my face until I get it wet and scrubbed is as if someone slapped and then spit into my face, that much of an insult. I have to bribe myself with pretty bath scrubbers and lovely hypoallergenic body washes, etc. just to entice me into the bath. I have always felt that way, but I love the water other wise, and will swim all day if allowed. I am clumsy, and loud noises send me into a quiet hysteria. I detest cellular telephones and will not use them.

My Shrink tells me I am on my own, though, for any help from anyone else. I am about 32 years over the age of any social or governmental provisions for 'my kind'. When my vibrant and sincere suggestions I begin a small tasteful movement of us that are left out of the 'social safety net', he just reminds me that there is literally no future in it, as we are dying out - the younger generation are being screened and spotted and helped and won't need to inherit the work done just for a small population of ageing non diagnosed AS.


Merle

Truth be told, I know more Aspies than Bordies. I think the sensory issues I have don't mean I have AS, they are just unrecognized in BPD, but being as I don't know many borderlines that might not be the case with anyone else who has one but not the other. That's sort of why I'm here. I know I have BPD, but I was told I don't have Asperger's because I am "too well meaning". I have appropriate facial cues and such, and that I know when I'm being awkward (or so my therapist says).

Okay, let me think of it this way:

AS traits I do have:
sensory issues
obsessions/ obsessive interests
impaired relationships
social anxiety
meltdowns
difficult making eye contact
(noted by friend) odd gait
needing to recouperate/be alone after social activity


AS traits I don't have:
recognizing faces/facial expressions
weak central coherence
lack of empathy
monotone voice

Of the AS traits I don't have, I have the opposite problem. As for BPD, of the 9 diagnostic critera, I fit all of them.

So please don't mind me, I'm figuring this out myself.

I did qualify this statement in the very next sentence by saying that it was anecdotal. That was my way of acknowledging that she is only a single person I have had extensive experience with. I didn't perform an experimental study involving a hundred people with BPD- it's more like a single case study I guess




That's why I wanted to post- so I could add the experience of someone who had seen the DSM criteria "in action." It is very easy to get a very incorrect picture of a disorder if you just read the criteria without ever meeting someone with it.



That is certainly a very interesting perspective. I do see the similarities in extremities of mood and perception, and I could understand an argument of grouping them together based on this, except that there do seem to be some crucial differences. Namely the slew of neurological symptoms you get with AS (sensory sensitivities, perceptual problems with audition and vision, etc.) Also the fact that currently AS appears to be "hardwired" in while BPD currently appears to be more of a behavioral adaption to the "experience" of growing up- in order words, a disorder based on maladaptation to experiences in childhood and adolescence. That does not mean that there is no neurological component of course.

I think once we understand more about the neurology and biology of BPD and AS we will have a better understanding of how the two relate to one another.

I feel very similarly, but it is less intense for me. I really hate loud noises and the shower (which is why I almost exclusively take baths). And my cell phone is perpetually on vibrate, no one understands that.

I'm sorry your shrink is so insensitive, but you have my support.

This is true. But let's look at the evidence here:

I've known my friend for 19 years, since age 5. We've been good friends throughout that time. We grew up together, went to the same school, have shared vacations, all of that. No problems that I could see with routines, special interests, social interaction, etc. When she started having a lot of problems as a teenager (including 3 suicide attempts) we had a lot of long talks about her experiences and how she feels about stuff. Pretty candid discussions. We discussed the suicide attempts, her reasons for self-mutilation (burning herself and hitting herself with a hammer), etc. No evidence of any Aspie symptoms that I could see.

Additionally, my parents are both psychologists, who have excellent "Aspiedar" (especially my mom). They have also known my friend since age 5 (our families are close so we do a lot of things together). They also talk extensively with my friend's parents about her problems. My mom is actually her mom's best friend. My parents thought my friend probably had BPD before she was officially diagnosed during one of her hospitalizations.

So we have (1) my observations of her from a young age (2) her self-report of her experiences (3) the perspective of her parents and (4) the perspective of two psychologists who have known her from a young age and talked extensively with her parents about her problems.

She also has no family history of ASDs, although she does have a family history of PDs, mood disorders, and schizophrenia.

So I feel pretty confident when I say I don't believe she has AS.

That's funny, because that's the exact opposite of how I feel about showers. I don't mind the actual shower, but I avoid showering because I can't stand the feeling of getting out of the shower wet all over and drying myself off. If I had a giant blow-dryer to dry my body, I probably wouldn't mind it nearly so much- I just can't stand fabric (towels or clothing) touching my damp skin. When I don't go out much (like right now because I am unemployed), I shower maybe 2 times a week (I don't like it when my hair gets very greasy so there is a point when I shower willingly). I do shower before I go out though (like for a job interview).