Can someone have great social skills and still have AS?

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You can ask him if (you) are going to stay in the company , there is nothing wrong with that.

He may get upest if he is a rude person, but that isent your fault.

I do undersand these things, by the way.

That sums me up pretty well too. Most people are pretty shocked when I tell them I have Aspergers, as it's only the ones who are closest to me and know me best who notice the internal meltdowns and the slight rocking and the monologues and the obsessions and everything else. I'm still very much a pretty run-of-the-mill Aspergian, I just spent years observing social interactions and was very determined not to be the bullied loser my whole life, so I studied and watched and mimicked and here we are. I wouldn't say it comes naturally to me, but it's far more natural than it ever was as a child, I don't have to think about things too much in day-to-day events.

I think a few things do help... I have friends, lots of them, and they aren't judgemental towards anyone, so they don't tend to notice my mistakes. My partner is very good at telling me when I'm going on too much about one of my interests (usually by way of a kick under the table and a pointed look!!), I have a pretty good sense of humour which can extend to my own stupidity in socialising (laughing at yourself and saying out loud "Oh woops, that wasn't meant to be taken literally was it... hahaha, I'm so blonde" can do wonders!), and if I do feel in a bad mood or like I could have a 'meltdown' I remove myself from the situation so others don't have to witness it - either taking myself home ("Not feeling so good, think I ate something funny...") or by going and sitting in the loo for a bit ("Ergh, hate being a woman...") or going for a walk ("Just going to get some cash from the ATM up the road..."). I also find limiting the amount you talk about obsessions can help - allowing yourself two sentences is great. And also making sure to ask other people how they're doing or how they're feeling; even if you don't want to know, they like to be included and feel like someone cares so they'll appreciate it and it takes the heat off you a bit.

It's all learned behaviour, but it makes socialising easy. Plus I'm always smiling and positive and optimistic. And everyone likes a smiler. I think.

*sigh* I don't anyone has claimed to 'cure' AS through social training - I know I have not - but to dismiss it so readily is really showing a closed scope of venture at this point. It doesn't solve everything - hell, it doesn't even solve anything - but it does make functioning a lot easier, a lot less stressful, and generally has a better result for me than acquiescence. You wouldn't ask the CEO who his friends are... but you might ask what the criteria are for retention, or any of a multitude of other tacks in order to produce information and results. There is no panacea, no cure... but there are steps to take to change how you encounter the world.

This will probably be the last time I post in this thread; while I appreciate your viewpoint and feelings, Greentea... the way you've responded, to lump those who see things differently into a group of inexperienced children, is not productive and has really torqued me this morning.


M.

I have a pretty good sense of humour which can extend to my own stupidity in socialising (laughing at yourself and saying out loud "Oh woops, that wasn't meant to be taken literally was it... hahaha, I'm so blonde" can do wonders!), and if I do feel in a bad mood or like I could have a 'meltdown' I remove myself from the situation so others don't have to witness it - either taking myself home ("Not feeling so good, think I ate something funny...") or by going and sitting in the loo for a bit ("Ergh, hate being a woman...") or going for a walk ("Just going to get some cash from the ATM up the road..."). I also find limiting the amount you talk about obsessions can help - allowing yourself two sentences is great. And also making sure to ask other people how they're doing or how they're feeling; even if you don't want to know, they like to be included and feel like someone cares so they'll appreciate it and it takes the heat off you a bit.

It's all learned behaviour, but it makes socialising easy. Plus I'm always smiling and positive and optimistic. And everyone likes a smiler. I think. [/quote]

I ALSO HAVE A "PRETTY GOOD SENSE OF HUMOR" at least to myself. In the beginning they just think I am a eccentric, goofy and funny, they kinda like, but there's a momment they realize I always do the same things and never change in some aspects. I am a very in-door girl, so I don't even have the opportunity to "study people that much", I am always the fool in April's fool, I move and gesticulate in a particular way and giggle too much for things that are not exciting for them, and have no interest towards the things they do. So they want me to go with the flow, but I just don't want to go. I tend to echoe and repeat my thoughts and things I said before and people say "You told me this twice, you told me this 5 times". I really want to take this doubt if I am an HFA or an aspie. Here I was told aspergers don't "spine around a tree in public". I grew up in a closed community and tehy were the only people I knew.

*sigh* back.

You really believe the CEO would reveal his hidden agenda to you? What can I say...I'm flabbergasted.

Not overtly, no - but there are always niches and tidbits to be gleaned.


M.

Couldn't read the entire thread but autism has hard wired features such as sensory issues and heightened sensitivities that make what appear to "normal" minds not much of a big deal.

A person with aspergers can increase their social skills improvements. A person who started off LFA can also become higher functioning in areas that were thought of as improbable by stereotypes shown.

Now if the person in question has no sensory issues, great social skills, can easily multi-task without feeling like their world is collapsing, I would think the person was not on the spectrum.

Also, with stereotypes in the media, people get the impression that autism means you will not talk to anyone new, you cannot hold a conversation etc...this is not entirely true.

In some cases of a person who has difficulty on the inside with socializing but who has managed to learn how to cope, you may notice same answers to questions such as "How are you?"

You may notice the same answer. The person might just say "okay" "fine" "good" because the person has learned from prior mistakes of going into the lenghty real answer that perhaps they aren't really doing okay and go into personal long details that it has given others a bad impression.

Stereotyping actions isn't as accurate as stereotyped responses.

The stereotype response is one extreme to the other.

If the person was corrected in the past over long answers in response to questions, the person may feel discouraged from giving lenghty replies and go the complete opposite direction and give very short responses.

It isn't really all the autistic person's fault either. Others could sharpen up their patience skills as well.

Of course, but if one does end up with a disability, there's not a great deal that can be done about it. It's just there for good, so the only thing left is to just try and cope with it, and live one's life the best one can. Possibly coming to realize something greater and more enlightening in the process.

As that prayer goes - Lord, give me the courage to change what I cannot accept, the humility to accept what I cannot change, and the wisdom to distinguish between the two.

Besides, not having a disability most certainly doesn't mean feeling happier or more fulfilled. I've grown up in a family of miserable people who complain about everything, find fault with each other and concoct imaginary issues to dwell on without coming close to being disabled in any way. I'm pretty sure there are plenty other such people out there. For all I know, they could actually be a MAJORITY.

On the other hand, I've read/heard about some perfectly happy people with Williams' or Down's syndrome, who were, by all accounts, severely challenged at least in some areas (I know that people with these conditions tend to have an inherently more optimistic disposition, but still). So I guess it all depends, really.

Pleasant fiction.

It is such a hassle. Get dressed, itchy clothes, paint face, dirt, bright room, squint, conversations, noise, pain, brushing past me, irritated, confused, then "Hay how ARE you" is all they muster. "I am fine thank you," "What's the matter you look uncomfortable."

Last edited by Jenk on 20 Oct 2008, 12:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.

i do not think someone with AS can have "great" social skills.

say on the continuum of autism, 0 is vegetatively profoundly disabled, and 10 is NT.

aspergers i would put at 8><10


so a person who is the least autistic to the point where it is infinitessimal is 9.9999...repeated (there is no repeater symbol i can use).

but since they have that .0000...(repeated)...1 tincture of autism, then they are still technically asperger, except the numeral i just wrote is equal to zero in reality. so they really have no autism.

like a location that is 1 mathematical "point" away from another location, is in the same location, because points have no size.

so, very mild asperger people probably have indiscernible impediments to their social skills.

but to have "great" social skills implies that you are well into nt area and way past the 10 threshold where NT starts.

like for example, oprah winfrey is very far from autistic. she seems to adapt and mould with people so that many millions of people like her personality (i am oblivious to what is good about it however).

so in my case, i have no idea what people expect from me, and i have no idea what i should think about things people say to me.

also, i can not fake things. i see people all laughing with each other at things i know they would not laugh about in private.

for example, if i know someone and have seen them watch a comedy show where the jokes are professional, i may notice they did not audibly laugh once.

but that same person is in "stitches" when someone in a social group says a joke of much poorer quality than the ones he did not laugh at alone.
that MUST be fake.

also, their faces do not really look like they are authentic when they are smiling while the other is talking.

the listener says "oh yes.......uh huh...........really???....." at just the right intervals.

i forget to do this and i just look blankly somewhere near them while they talk and they give up, thinking i am not listening.

i may say "have you finished talking now?" because i am confused as to whether their sentence has ended. they may take that as i am glad they have finally shut up.

i will not smile if i do not find something amusing. i can not do it. it looks like a leer if i try to smile fakely. i have done it in the past in the mirror and it looks so seriously wrong.

people also show concern and sympathy for others in conversation that i can not show.
eg: if someone is saying their favourite uncle died last week, and they are devastated, i have no opinion at all. i can not say "oh no!! oh my goodness!" because i never met him and i do not care in the slightest about the matter.

NT's, even if they did not know the uncle, would never the less say those things, and put their arm around the other's shoulder and do the "there there" thing.

i have a sense that people would be horrified at my robotic insincerity if i tried such a stunt as to hug and console someone when i was not also sad inside.

so i never try it.

additionally, the lack of empathy is fundamental to not keeping pace with a social flow.

example a girl from the office who was later at the tavern said "oh and then he stomped into the office and fired me" with a smile on her face. because i see her smile, i think she is happy about it and i may say "excellent" and then i am rudely shocked that she did not feel happy about it.
why does she smile when she said it then?

someone at work may show me a picture of their child who died . they may smile a weird smile as they tell me how it happened.
i fail to hear their words, and try to work out why they are smiling about the fact their child died. maybe their child had terminal cancer and the car accident was a blessing? who knows.

after they stop talking and leave that obligatory gap for my response, i can not think of whether what they said is happy or sad as i have still not yet worked out the reason for their smile, so i take a guess and say "oh well ...it could have been worse i suppose" trying to hedge my bets.
always, they snap back at me, and then they stop and realize i am like a social moron.
they never tell me anything important again.

hmmm. if i had that magical power of empathy, i would somehow "feel" what the person was feeling and know what to say.

a good way to describe this to an NT is maybe to ask them if they can tell whether a horse is happy or sad by looking at it's face. they can not
peoples faces are similarly non affective to me.

i have only 4 basic emotions. they are happy, sad, displeased and... i never can remember what the 4th one is.

they are not only basic, they are non interchangeable in their expressions on my face.

i only can recognize the facial expressions in other people that i also have. the basic ones.

more complicated expressions are like looking at a gorilla trumpeting out his lips and then grimmacing in some perplexing facial contortion which no doubt signifies some mysterious sensation in the gorilla. i have not the remotest idea what complex expressions signify.

i can not follow gesticulation. i can not interpret what all those hand waving signs mean.
sometimes, if a person gesticulates fervently, my visual focus snaps to one of their hands, and i track it rigidly with my eyes.
i can follow darting things easily. i can keep sharp tracked focus on small darting flies, so it is easy for me to keep his fingertip in sharp focus while he is gesticulating.

they notice my eyes tracking their hands and usually say things like "are you taking the mickey (or some name like that i can not remember) out of me?" in an angry way.

if they wave their hands about, then why are they annoyed that i try to keep track of them?
what are they saying with their hands? is it the same thing that they are talking about? or is it some other conversation they are having as well?

i do not gesticulate. the only time i come close to gesticulating is when i am describing some technical idea, and then i trace in the air the design of the flow chart of the logic.

some people look like they are conducting orchestra's when they talk.

psychs have told me that gesticulation is very important to social flow.

they say that for me to stand there and drone off a monotonous saga with my arms draped limply and motionless beside me is not a recipe for a "charismatic" effect.

so how would i gesticulate how my cat died? would i trace the shape of the cat in the air? would i spell words in the air? i have found that people's gesticulation is not them spelling words in the air.

some people have "karate chop" gesticulation, others have "needle threading" gesticulation.

there is no school to learn how to gesticulate. so is it just a random flailing of arms?

one thing i have learned about gesticulation is that there is a tempo to it.
it is almost always in rhythm with the sentences syllables.
this means that the person has pre-calculated what they will gesticulate to match the rhythm of what they say.
but they do not look like they are pre-calculating such a difficult choreographic task while they are talking.
so it must be an "instinct" wired to a "sense". i have neither the instinct or the sense.

or...maybe i do, and it is just the wiring i lack.

i used to be suspicious of people on asperger forums (i will not be arty farty and say "fora") who seemed to be the life of the party.
they would blow in and charm everyone (i am not charmable). soon they would be arranging "get togethers" etc (i like to arrange "stay aparts" (pseudo joke)) . they used smileys and emoticons. no emoticon has the expression on my face so i use none.

they were full of "natural" banter and small talkability.
i used to hound them because i thought they were frauds who were preying on a stock of normal looking (nice girls etc) but vulnerable people.

but now i realize that it is just that my autism is at the clinically significant level while most people on forums are not at that level.

i think people who have great social skills should abandon the "banner" of AS and move on and live a normal NT life.

if there is no disability of any kind, then there is no syndrome of any kind.

socializing for me is a bamboozling experience.
the whole thing is a dance that i can not ever remember the steps to.

You can't say 0.000...1 to express an infinitesimal.

Anyway, that aside there are some social things I don't think I can do. An example is using lewd language in a semi-joking fashion to express sexual interest. I wouldn't want to pull that off, anyway, and neither would many NTs. That said there were certain situations where I was quite popular, just from having a few jokes and making other people feel good and comfortable and telling their friends. It takes a bit of luck and an accepting crowd who are looking for new friends to begin with. I can't say I needed great social skills to do that.

b9, (a pun on benign?), what an interesting post. I think it ought to be reworked into an article and put, put where?, put somewhere where a lot of people will read it and come to a better understanding of what some of us deal with.

b9, applause ! !! !! !

b9,
You post was full of the kind of social skills I like, wit and humor, substance, quality over quantity! I read your post and laughed, especially the part about "stay aparts" that was witty and clever!
I agree with you. If socializing is easy, why not just move on and socialize? For me it is not easy at all. I am definitely one that has a serious problem with it, so serious it is really difficult to do. I can't just learn it like I can learn other things. I am not good at what people call "socializing", not even sure if I want to be, and make so many blunders while attempting it's easier for me not to try.
One thing I am not going to do, because I see no reason to, is be envious of people who have "social skills" and get myself really depressed thinking about this sort of thing. Thinking I am so wrong because I am not like a certain type of person, I am inferior to nearly everyone on the planet because I do not play these types of games I despise anyway and some of the low down games they play really make me cringe.
Why do I want to be a part of that?
I am thru trying to figure out why people long to be good at that. Trying to figure it out doesn't do me much good either.
I will gladly admit I has no clue and leave it at that.