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garyww
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20 Jan 2009, 6:53 pm

You don't seriously expect that the new president isn't going to do the same?


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MissConstrue
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20 Jan 2009, 6:58 pm

I have no idea...all I can do is watch for the outcome. Personally I don't hold high hopes in politics in fixing the U.S. I only voted for him because he isn't a republican or Bush.


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20 Jan 2009, 7:01 pm

Padium wrote:
You realize that, according to someone I know who has been studying economics his entire life (my great uncle who at one point was president of Tampax, or whatever the company was that owned it at the time) and he claims that recessions are a part of the natural economic cycle, and actually help to stabilize an economy when it would normally cause certain things to become dangerous otherwise (like inflation).


I guess, in a way, that is true. If everyone made lots of money, everyone else would want more, raise prices, etc... If they did that, of course, fewer people could pay, and things could collapse anyway. STILL, the level, duration, and extremes do NOT have to be like 1929 or 1999. BTW 1999 did NOT happen because of the market. It happened because of the GOVERNMENT. 1929 may have happened a similar way. HECK, in 1929 they had VERY lenient margins, Banks could do ANYTHING, ANYONE could sell stock, and there were no real disclosure requirements. It is amazing that things didn't collapse sooner. The SEC, Banking laws(including glass steagle), and broker legislation, went into place BECAUSE of 1929! ALL went into place around 1933(which was the end of the 1929 turmoil).



Padium
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20 Jan 2009, 7:16 pm

The great depression actually ended because Hitler brought the world back into war, and jump started everyone's economy, as it created jobs for everyone. Had the world have not gone back into war, the economy would have been worse longer... And maybe that wasn't the case in the states, but it certainly was for most of the world.



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20 Jan 2009, 7:22 pm

Congress is still there, so nothing has changed.

Everything complained about came from Congress.

Those who brought you the past will now bring the future.

A first termer can bring in about $5,000,000 a year in "donations."



garyww
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20 Jan 2009, 7:32 pm

So right. The endless cycle is just continued and we plebians keep shoveling the coal into the ovens as mindless robots hooked on the governemental psychodrug called 'hope'. At least this guy came out and named the crap we are all feeding on. 'Hope' as if it was some new big deal that would change the world. It's just another way to suck more blood and brain matter to feed the machine. Orwell would be amazed at how easy it really was.
I guess I don't fit in anymore.


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20 Jan 2009, 7:37 pm

Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. :wink:


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2ukenkerl
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20 Jan 2009, 7:46 pm

Inventor wrote:
Congress is still there, so nothing has changed.

Everything complained about came from Congress.

Those who brought you the past will now bring the future.

A first termer can bring in about $5,000,000 a year in "donations."


You're certainly right there. My problem with clinton was his approval, some things he sponsored/introduced, and things he took credit for, etc.... Still, Congress DID facilitate, do, and/or support it. That's ANOTHER thing I hate about the government. Congressmen get together "buddybuddy", and create trouble with laws JUST so they can get more money, sycophants, power and/or take undue credit.

What we probably should do is cut the pay of those in congress in half, and get rid of the special pensions, and create a third chamber(for the COUNTRY(with maybe one person for each geographic area)) and give ONLY THEM the ability to write laws AS A GROUP! It is ridiculous that those that write the laws pass them, fund them, and can change them. We have the other 2 chambers simply because one represents the people(of the states), and the other represents the states(so the big states don't have too much control). Maybe those in the third house should be in a separate area and selected by the governors of affected states.(Because of the approval, multiple states, etc... even the governors wouldn't know if the guy was selected.) That would get rid of SO much of the garbage we have now.



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20 Jan 2009, 7:56 pm

G-d, you guys are so negative. Time to bring back the celebration:

OBAMA! :bounce:
OBAMA! :bounce:
OBAMA! :bounce:

I sat and watched the inauguration today, holding my daughter's hand and my husband's hand. My husband started crying, I got tears in my eyes, and my daughter talked about how cool it was that her best friend got to go to DC for the whole thing.

I have very high hopes for Obama. I have high hopes for this country, because it would have been unthinkable in my childhood to even consider that a black man could be president. He's smart, he's educated, and he puts smart, educated, thinking people around him. He wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth like Junior and he's had to overcome a lot to get to where he is.

He's pretty easy on the eyes, too. 8)

Sorry.

I got distracted by the visuals. :D

Anyway, where was I? Oh, yes, today was one of the best day of my life. I usually loathe pageantry, but today I basked in the glow of watching a bunch of white guys salute a black guy.

:salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :afro:


It helped that I was watching C-Span, so there was no annoying commentary. I could just watch what was going on.

OBAMA! :bounce:
OBAMA! :bounce:
OBAMA! :bounce:

Oh, and as a Jew, I had no problem with his lumping together Jews and Hindus. Given the number of Jewish Buddhists, out there, however, I would have preferred being lumped together with Buddhists, whom he did not mention at all. Perhaps because they don't have much of a history of shooting at other people? Or because the whole point of Buddhism is not to take sides? Don't know. Don't care right now.

I'm WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too happy. :cheers:


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2ukenkerl
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20 Jan 2009, 8:08 pm

neshamaruach wrote:
G-d, you guys are so negative. Time to bring back the celebration:

OBAMA! :bounce:
OBAMA! :bounce:
OBAMA! :bounce:

I sat and watched the inauguration today, holding my daughter's hand and my husband's hand. My husband started crying, I got tears in my eyes, and my daughter talked about how cool it was that her best friend got to go to DC for the whole thing.

I have very high hopes for Obama. I have high hopes for this country, because it would have been unthinkable in my childhood to even consider that a black man could be president. He's smart, he's educated, and he puts smart, educated, thinking people around him. He wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth like Junior and he's had to overcome a lot to get to where he is.

He's pretty easy on the eyes, too. 8)

Sorry.

I got distracted by the visuals. :D

Anyway, where was I? Oh, yes, today was one of the best day of my life. I usually loathe pageantry, but today I basked in the glow of watching a bunch of white guys salute a black guy.

:salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :salut: :afro:


It helped that I was watching C-Span, so there was no annoying commentary. I could just watch what was going on.

OBAMA! :bounce:
OBAMA! :bounce:
OBAMA! :bounce:

Oh, and as a Jew, I had no problem with his lumping together Jews and Hindus. Given the number of Jewish Buddhists, out there, however, I would have preferred being lumped together with Buddhists, whom he did not mention at all. Perhaps because they don't have much of a history of shooting at other people? Or because the whole point of Buddhism is not to take sides? Don't know. Don't care right now.

I'm WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too happy. :cheers:


TALK ABOUT OVER REACTING! SHEESH! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And you LOVE the idea of a bunch of white guys getting paid to, or sucking up to, salute a black guy? WHY???? And are you SO racist that the color matters THAT much? Black guys certainly saluted the white presidents, and I don't care about that! I have NO emotion about that. My dislike of obama is very similar to my dislike of clinton. So why do YOU have such respect and emotion simply because he is black? And wasn't HE the one that said those bad things about jews earlier?



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20 Jan 2009, 8:14 pm

garyww wrote:
He is just another politician like all the rest and if anybody actually thinks that governments have the best interests of the people in mind then they need a reality check.



That's one of the most intelligent and realistic things I've ever read on wrong planet.


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garyww
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20 Jan 2009, 8:17 pm

I think the racial thing is pretty neat but that is just an aside to the overall picture and unfortunately the new president will most likely do about as much for people of color or other differences as any other president has done.


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MissConstrue
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20 Jan 2009, 8:23 pm

history_of_psychiatry wrote:
garyww wrote:
He is just another politician like all the rest and if anybody actually thinks that governments have the best interests of the people in mind then they need a reality check.



That's one of the most intelligent and realistic things I've ever read on wrong planet.


Agree.


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2ukenkerl
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20 Jan 2009, 8:25 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
history_of_psychiatry wrote:
garyww wrote:
He is just another politician like all the rest and if anybody actually thinks that governments have the best interests of the people in mind then they need a reality check.



That's one of the most intelligent and realistic things I've ever read on wrong planet.


Agree.


WOW, we can ALL agree on that!



garyww
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20 Jan 2009, 8:27 pm

I keep my guns loaded.


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20 Jan 2009, 8:28 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
Inventor wrote:
Congress is still there, so nothing has changed.

Everything complained about came from Congress.

Those who brought you the past will now bring the future.

A first termer can bring in about $5,000,000 a year in "donations."


You're certainly right there. My problem with clinton was his approval, some things he sponsored/introduced, and things he took credit for, etc.... Still, Congress DID facilitate, do, and/or support it. That's ANOTHER thing I hate about the government. Congressmen get together "buddybuddy", and create trouble with laws JUST so they can get more money, sycophants, power and/or take undue credit.

What we probably should do is cut the pay of those in congress in half, and get rid of the special pensions, and create a third chamber(for the COUNTRY(with maybe one person for each geographic area)) and give ONLY THEM the ability to write laws AS A GROUP! It is ridiculous that those that write the laws pass them, fund them, and can change them. We have the other 2 chambers simply because one represents the people(of the states), and the other represents the states(so the big states don't have too much control). Maybe those in the third house should be in a separate area and selected by the governors of affected states.(Because of the approval, multiple states, etc... even the governors wouldn't know if the guy was selected.) That would get rid of SO much of the garbage we have now.


We The People only provide less than 2% of the income of Congress, the rest comes from donations. Cutting their pay would not help.

The basic problem comes from 100 years ago when Congress took it upon it's self to alter the Constitution, a House seat was to be one from every 100,000 and with 4,350,000 they thought it was too much, so froze it there. With 300,000,000 we should have a House of 3,000, and a Senate of 100.

This fix is what allowed a two party, one party, takeover, and at the same time they created the Federal Reserve, putting the money supply in private hands. They also passed the Income Tax. None of these changes to the Constitution were ever Ratified by the States.

The Founding Fathers well knew the danger of putting the money supply in the hands of private banks. Only Congress can produce money is in the Constituion, and still stands, the rest is theft.

A 3,000 seat House would be of all the People, all points of view, and a strong protection from what we have now.

What we have now at all levels is the Government Party. When 1/3 work for the government, they only need 17% more of the vote to stay in power forever.

A 3,000 seat House and a National Bank would break the power of entrenched interests.

It was the intent of the Founding Fathers that all power would reside with the People.

They knew the plebians were uneducated, unwashed, prone to becoming a mob, and still chose for them to be first in ruling the country, with some sensible checks and balances.

They also put checks on Congress, and Banks.

Obama took an oath to reboot the Constitution.