Aspergers and above average IQ

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I suspect that this is an exaggeration. I have seen no statistical evidence indicating Aspies have a higher intelligence than the average in the NT community. Before computers, no one bothered much is the Asperger type autistic.

ruveyn

My IQ was 111 at the age of 5. I am very proficient in science however my math skills are lacking. I can study for days at math and still fail miserably on math tests it really sucks. I do not know what my IQ is now but strangely enough I can pick up languages most NTs find difficult like Mandarin in a matter of weeks and speak just enough to converse in. But I think it comes into the curiosity factor of things and interest. If I am not interested in a subject or do not like it, no matter how hard I try or force myself, things do not seem to click, and if they do things go rather sluggishly. Math is my kryptonite.

Hyperlexia and advanced memorization don't apply to me. I'm a slow reader and my memory is sluggish. My strengths are visuo-spatial, which were clearly shown by the two subtests of PRI (perceptual reasoning index, WAIS-IV), block design and matrix reasoning. It seems this was one of the reasons why the psychs denied an Asperger dx from me, but I wonder how many times they diagnose someone with one at other clinics when they have the same or similar subscale scatter, as I'd bet anything that most of the techie or geeky "Aspies" have the same.

Hyperlexia and andvanced memorization are associated with better verbal comprehension index (VCI), and some of the psychs (obviously not all) regard it as a hallmark of Asperger's.

I'm not buying this.

What you don't buy of this?

To me it just seems to be a mixture of stereotype and "aspies aren't actually smart, any advantage they might have is really a disability".

To the best of my understanding, aspies are not smart, on average. I think on average we are average...

We may have advantages, we may also have disadvantages. The disadvantage argument is more robust, as that is the bulk of criteria for the condition. I'm not sure autism universally is advantageous, personally. I think it is a potential key element to some advantages some individuals have, but as it is not unanimous that all people with autism gain some form of advantage from the condition, on average we are more disabled than gifted.

I have heard accounts that the autism IQ has a peculiar distribution curve, despite that the average is nearly 100, there are unusual amounts of people on the higher end of the iq spectrum, and lower end of the iq spectrum. To me, it's like autism simply magnifies what is there, if you were smart, add autism and you're really smart, if you were dumb, add autism and you're really dumb. We are amplified individuals; we always seem to seek the extremes.

And speaking from personal experience, for whatever that is worth. I know my advantages come at a steep price. Every perk of the condition has a cost, and I tend to agree that any advantage we might have is a disability, or the beneficial side effect of one, or vice versa.

Also, stereotypes exist for a reason. No, not everyone will fit into a stereotype, of course people are individuals and there are exceptions to just about every rule. But stereotypes have a purpose when talking about large groups, so long as one bears in mind that it is only a generalization and not applicable to all members of said group.

What specifically did you not agree with?

Aspies span the gamut from low-averger/borderlein intellectually disabled to profoundly gifted. They cannot be intellectually disabeld because the DSM says so. The steretotype that Aspies are highly intelligent, is rooted in Asperger'sown observations. Then again, some of Kanner's observed children were h ighly intelligent too.

I can't stand the Aspies-as-above-all-intelligence stereotype. Even though I myself am highly gifted intellectually, I am significantly disabled.

By "not smart" I meant "stupid" or "those with AS who appear to be smart aren't actually smart, it's just an illusion". I agree with the whole warped distribution thing. As for what I disagree with, I guess it's more of the way it's presented and what that implies than the actual content. The thing I really dislike is "simple cognetion vs. Complex cognetion".

Yeah, I can understand that.

I think the distinction is more: those with AS who appear to be smart, really are smart, it's just not exclusively because of AS. I might have read it wrong myself though, who knows. I think we do feel the same about it though.

As far as the simple cognition vs complex cognition, I actually do think that is accurate. But, it is accurate for Gifted Vs Anyone, not just aspergers. Gifted folk have more complex cognition, I'd wager.

In a sense yes, AS and intelligence may be two different things. As for the warp distribution, I don't see this tendency. Sometimes I appear smart, sometimes dumb. I guess most people on the spectrum are the same way.

Maybe it's the difference between AS and other HF ASDs. Those who can express themselves better verbally, have good rote memory, quick memory recall, may appear smarter. Definitely not me.

I find this topic very interesting so I forced myself to read through 8 pages of BS. There were some good posts interspersed with a bunch of 'my IQ is xxx' posts.

How do you even compare AS IQ to NT IQ when their thinking styles are different? For that matter how do you even compare AS vs. AS?

Let me give you an example of how IQ sucks at comparing two people. Lets say, for the sake of simplicity, two people have an FSIQ of 100. Each has the following break down of index scores:

Person #1 FSIQ 100
VCI - 110
PRI - 70
WMI- 150
PSI - 70

Person #2 FSIQ 100

VCI - 100
PRI - 100
WMI - 100
PSI - 100

Both have a FSIQ of 100 but how do you compare them? These people will be like night and day when you talk to them and when they perform specific tasks.

Lets look at it at the index level using WMI as an example:

Person #1

Digit Span - 19
Letter Number Sequence - 10
Arithmetic - 1

Person #2

DS - 10
LN - 1
AR - 19

Again, both have the same WMI score but how do you compare these 2 people?

The only legitimate use of IQ tests is INTRA individual comparison to determine relative strengths and weaknesses.

Lets look at another example:

You and another person are both taking a test in mental arithmetic calculation. You find out that the person you're competing against has a FSIQ of 60 while your FSIQ is 140. You think 'wow this isn't even a competition'. When you get the results you find out he made you look like an idiot. You wonder how this could be since you scored 19 on the arithmetic subtest. Then you find out the guy with the 60 FSIQ is a calculation savant.

Last example... A person took an IQ test twice, 20 years apart. On the 1st test he scored 141 on the 2nd test he scored 107. Did he have a brain injury in that time? Did he just become 'dumber' over time? Or was it that during the 2nd test there was a kid running and screaming outside the door, music playing over the office speaker system, quartz clock ticking in front of him on the desk, test givers stomach growling?

My examples are on the extreme side but I only use them to prove a point; In the real world FSIQ is a poor predictor of skills and talents and real world performance of various tasks, especially at the floor and ceiling levels.

Most aspies I've talked to seem to be very intelligent. I'm not one of those aspies. I have a little bit above average IQ and I'm really good at English, languages, reading and writing. I'm good at social sciences. I've always had a learning disability with math. Actually, I can barely do basic math. I process things really slowly. I also have horrible fine motor skills, always had. I can't swim or ride a bike. I'm fairly good at disguising what I have problems with though.

I don't want to insult anyones opinion but Aspies are most likely smart about what they are obsessed about. That does not necessarily mean they will shine at test time.

For me personally I have a high IQ. School and College was not a problem. Besides a BA in Accounting I have my CPA & CGMA. I also attended graduate school and studied philosophy. I still read books to learn and study like I am in school. But this is me.

B

My IQ test was so "spiky" that the psychologist who tested me didn't even want to give me a FSIQ because she said it wouldn't have done a very good job of reflecting my actual abilities.

As for the "predictive value" of IQ for real life, I believe my PIQ was 84 on the WAIS-IV, but I've been working as an aircraft mechanic for seven years now.

Having taken an actual IQ test hasn't done anything to rid me of my initial misgivings about the IQ reflecting "intelligence." I have too many "coping" mechanisms I've developed that don't lend themselves to measurement. For example, I'm a highly associative thinker, but that aspect of my cognitive profile doesn't show up on paper.

It's interesting that you say this. I think it may be somewhat common in AS. There are actually modified versions the WAIS, WISC, and WMS (wechsler memory scales) that tests for this specifically by using multiple choice rather than forcing free recall.