My failing marriage

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I don't have anywhere/anyone to talk about this so I'm posting it here, not sure if it's a good place so sorry if it's not.

My husband and I are separated (1.5 years ago). We have been married for 18 years but only these last two years or so has been rocky. He basically "fell off the rails"- got arrested for drunk driving, which he says he was having a panic attack for a really long time on the side of the road and decided to drink to be able to drive on. I wasn't there so I don't know. I don't know what triggered the severe anxiety- I think something did, but he says no. He attempted to kill himself this Feb (we'd been separated for a year). Diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and depression when he tried to kill himself. So that's the history.

I don't know what to do. He doesn't talk to me. I wonder if he may have Asperger's sometimes (our kids are autistic), but I'm not even sure if it matters. He says he wants to be with me and that I'm his only "safe person", but then I feel like he's lying about the anxiety. I think something happened to cause it. You wouldn't just suddenly get severe anxiety out of nowhere, would you??? He won't tell me how he really is- he always says he's fine but he even said that the day he tried to kill himself, and according to the doctors there, he made a damn good try...they thought he might die even hours after being brought in. I worry frequently about him trying again, due to his lack of real communication. He's not fine; he's been losing weight. But if I push it, we fight.

I really like him as a person. I genuinely enjoy his company. I want him back too...but not when he's so unstable (not good for the kids). He refuses to take medication and doesn't really talk to his therapist. We also have a marriage therapist (who we see pretty rarely since there's always something in the way..) and he also doesn't talk to her, one of his major anxieties is social.

I'm so stressed out and scared for him and like I said, I'm at a loss. I wish I could reach him and we could have a real truthful conversation. But how?

Any thoughts at all?

I really don't know what to tell you.

Anxiety ALWAYS has causes...

...but just because they're there doesn't mean that a person is aware of what they are, or can pinpoint them, or can verbalize it even if they have the knowledge "in the cloud" somewhere in their head. So he might not exactly be lying (even about being OK-- there's a difference, I guess, between lying and saying what you are trying very hard to make true).

Dunno where you're at, but where I grew up there was also a STRONG STRONG SUPER STRONG stigma attached to men even having feelings other than happy, horny, hungry, and maybe angry. Let alone showing them or talking about them.

How to help it??? Gah. If I knew, I'd know how to help us, too. If I knew, I'd write a book, if only so there would be some alternative to Maxine Aston using Asperger's for a whipping-boy to cover up her flaming misandry.

That's a good point about not knowing the cause.

He grew up in an orthodox religious household. Religious gettup (sp?) and all. They're hugely into "this is what god intended men to do and this is what god intended woman to do. The end." But I'm not!! ! Prior to this disaster spiralling downhill, he used to open up to me. I've noticed actually that his anxiety is worse when his mother is around, so maybe it is related to the idea that men don't have deep emotions... It was probably deeply ingrained into his mind, but like I said, this is new- as far as I know anyway.

If a person has a drinking problem it can cause anxieties and depression because of the body slowly being poisoned by it, and many alcoholics try and handle the anxieties with even more drinking. and its not just alcohol, most any drug that is being heavily abused could cause this affect. although I know little about your husband and these things may not even be a factor.

That was my original thought, when he got arrested. I bought a breathalyser and I told him to stop drinking, period (if he was an alcoholic that would be hard). I test him every time I see him, which is almost every day. This started in June 2013. His BAC has always been ~0. That's over a year of testing. I have tested the machine to make sure it works too. In terms of other drugs, he was on suicide watch for almost a month, and that means they did not allow him anything, much less pills or anything. He didn't have withdrawl symptoms, so that indicates he's not a drug addict. He has blatently lied to me about his issues, so I don't really trust him with these things, so I think I've been vigilant. I guess it's possible he's tricking me, but the evidence seems to suggest that he's not addicted to alcohol or drugs. His suicide attempt involved OTC pain killers (and other non-drug things) but not alcohol. When I first found out the method, I thought maybe he was an alcoholic and started drinking again, then felt bad and tried to kill himself. But there was no alcohol in his system so evidently it wasn't that. As you can probably tell, I've thought about this a lot.

The one thing I thought of in this, I don't know why you separated in the first place and how long you've been not seeing each other regularly, but here is the Asperger's take on it, at least in my experience (I'm married to AS and have it too, we've been together 13 years)....

When you, or he, left you, it caused the sense of betrayal in one or the other of you, if it was in your husband, he would take that very, very hard. When someone becomes an Aspie's safe person and that person does something to abandon them or cause them to lose trust in you (or even reflect the lack of trust you have in each other), it can cause that severe sense of betrayal, that it's OVER FOREVER and that is absolutely HUGE for a AS person. I don't imagine he's very much gotten over you, or will anytime soon, he has shut you out because of this betrayal.

Can you think of the possible events going on around that two years ago mark that could have caused some serious misunderstanding? I am not trying to assume you know little about AS, but I can't really go on without knowing how much you know , obviously it's a lot because you have two teenage autistic children, just want to make sure though...

Something triggered this "crash" in him where he suddenly lost even the energy for you, which presumably he had before since things were good before that 2 years ago mark. Under what conditions did you two separate? IF you don't mind answering on a public forum.

I can tell you though that my hubby had a similar thing happen too when I almost moved us back to our home state closer to my parents. Not suicidal, but pretty much everything leading up to it, he almost lost his job and we've struggled financially since.

WTH, I'm sorry this is going on. About the severe anxiety, yes, it can happen out of the blue. About his being closed off...this is terrible to say, but I think you're in an impossible position. If you were able to be accepting of any/everything he might say or do, I bet he'd open up to you again. But you can't be accepting like that, because you've got kids and their mother to look out for. He's likely just trying to stay out of trouble with you and not buy himself any, either.

Also hard to say, but when someone has problems that serious, I think you're right, kids don't belong in the middle of it. I had to make the same decision. I've seen other women do it, too. You go for separation, hoping he'll get himself together, trying to maintain the family that way, and it turns out to be intolerable to the man's sense of self; having no one around is also not helpful.

The fact that you're testing him can't be helpful. (I've been there too. I've also been involved with a separated, suicidal man who, as it turned out, was a serious alcoholic and whose family was sure he'd stopped drinking.) Must you go on with it?

There is no getting around the message, "You cannot be trusted with your own children. I, your wife, will tell you so." But as their mother, you must protect them.

I will tell you what I'm sure you've heard before: Go on with your life, be successful, and take care of the children. You cannot control what he does, which you know. Consider what you will do if he does kill himself and hope it's merely fantasy. And do look ahead to what divorce might look like should you need to do that, or should he surprise you with it; know which lawyer you want and have the money put aside. But I can tell you that it's much easier to be relaxed in your relationship with a difficult or troubled spouse or ex when you yourself are secure and happy and well able to care for your children. The man you describe is not well and also not well enough to be focused on repairing or maintaing an adult relationship with you. He has enough to do just to get himself through the day, and he's not doing the things that show he's looking to get better. This is also not something you can do anything about, especially while responsible for your children.

I think my knowledge about autism is pretty good. I've certainly read a lot about it (including Asperger's)! But my kids are low-functioning, so my husband's not really like my kids much. They're pretty extreme (no language, severe developmental delays, etc.). I haven't read nearly as much about Asperger's as I have about classic autism.

Our separation was awful. It all started spiraling with the drunk driving, which apparently was related to the anxiety, so I think the anxiety came first- it wasn't triggered by the separation (I still don't know what triggered it). The DUI caused him to lose his job, and in addition, I do not think highly of people who drive drunk, and he knows that, so I guess that's why he decided to lie about the whole thing, for a month, and never came home afterwards until 2 months later. He stayed with his family, who he got to lie for him to say he wasn't there. He also happened to not be there for the one month that I lost two loved ones and our son was hospitalised (unrelated). I was extremely hurt to find out he was lying and everyone knew except me... so I wanted him to hurt too (yes I know, not very mature of me ), so I said some really mean things when he came back, and ended up kicking him out. In summary, he left, came back, and I left him.

I know he never forgets mean things people say to him- he has always been like that since I've known him (literally still remembers mean things kids said to him in kindergarten). One of those things was that he was a burden, which I know is related to suicide. I have since apologised, and so has he, but I don't think either of us is over what the other one did/said to us. I know I'm not over what he did to me.

I know. The kids have to come first, and I try really hard to make sure that they do. It's hard to be happy with worrying about him, but I am working on that too. Honestly, it'd be so much easier if he wasn't around (I don't mean dead, I just mean not seeing me every day), but as it is, I see him every freakin' day because that's our visitation arrangement... it keeps the worry fresh... and I really do care about him a lot, so it's hard (BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE! That's what I have to remind myself).

I'm okay with the kids alone, it's just hard to find people to look after them when I'm at work because they are not easy to look after. My eldest has been on a list for residential care since he was 8 (he's 15), so I'm really, really hoping he'll get a spot soon (not overnight yet, but just so there is somewhere for him to go sometimes). Financially I'm okay.

As for the testing, I was thinking about stopping it soon since he's "done well" for over a year. I know it sounds really crazy. It does to me too. Just since he lied so much about this, I worried he'd be with the kids drunk or something, so that's what I decided to do.

Um...this is not normal. Lying to cover a DUI is normal. Lying and then skipping out on your wife and leaving her to care for two severely autistic children on her own because of a DUI, or even a lost job...no, not normal.

Do you have other friends?

Something to be careful about, btw, with your visitation arrangement -- that's what I did, too, and it came back to bite me in the ass in divorce, because what I'd done was set up a picture of an involved and capable father. The fact that I was there all the time and we did this all at the house so that he didn't actually have the full weight of childcare on him, and he could leave if he started to fall apart -- that didn't show up in legal anything, because there was no documentation with someone official's name on it.

You might want to consult with a lawyer, just so that you can be sure to have things set up in the kids' best interests should there be a divorce. If his folks lied to you about his leaving, they'll also lie to you about what goes on during visitation.

Well he's not really a normal guy, LOL. I thought it was pretty f****d up at the time, now I guess it just is what it is.
I have 2 close friends who know a bit about the situation (one knows everything).



I have no doubt at all that his family would lie for him. When we split, I lost 100% of their support. I saw a lawyer a while ago, and will probably go back soon, because that's something I've also considered... but I usually try to not think about getting divorced.

ugh, did we marry the same guy? Mine actually became a *social worker* after all that, and is currently deciding that the place where he works doesn't treat him enough like a king, and is trying to go independent, meaning it's a tossup as to which comes first: he goes broke voluntarily (child support should be fun) or he's arrested for deciding that state regulations don't apply to him.

And yep, his parents, who tried rilly rilly hard to make him stick to me so I'd be the one taking care of him, decided I was the evil person, and even now, years later, if I see them, they react like I might put a hex on them. They did that lying about his being at their place thing, too, when he ran off. He'd also told them some eyepopping lies about why he'd taken off.

What would you like to have happen for your future? did you want to reconcile? He is ashamed of what he's done, and that can cause a complete shutdown and unless you are able to forgive him, and have the patience to repeatedly remind him you have forgiven him, then this, as you said, is what it is.

You need time to heal from the hurt he caused you. If you still need more time, he has to figure out somehow that you need that time for you, so you can 'come back' to him as yourself, he also has to figure out how to repair the hurt in you, so you both can move on. Asperger's makes it monumentally if not impossible to comfort/console another that they've hurt, but once they figure it out, they wholeheartedly attempt to fix it and get back to the "norm" between the two of you.

It's so important to AS people to have this consistent type of level in a relationship, it's boring for NT but comforting to AS. I wish i knew what caused his panic attack, it would all begin from there... unraveling the mystery behind an AS man's intentions/behavior is worth it even though it's time consuming. By validating his original experience, he can see later hopefully how he's caused you pain and both of you can work on rectifying it to the satisfaction of both parties.

Edited to add: I appreciate you both have apologized, have you laid out what you are each sorry for? it's one thing to say sorry but a whole nother thing to know what the heck you're sorry for, this is easy for NT (knowing) hard for AS because we don't know why/how/our actions have caused pain in another sometimes.

Sorry this is super long.

In my ideal world, our relationship would eventually go back to how it was. I often just want him to sleep over and I imagine us reconciling and cuddling and everything being fine..but the thing is, I'm imagining him how he used to be. And he's not like that anymore. So I don't really know where there is to go. I don't know if it's stupid to think he will ever be again- maybe this is permanent. I still think if I knew everything, we'd have a better chance. I don't know. I just don't know. In some ways he is still the same. Like I said in my original post, I still see the guy I married- when he's having a good day- so that leads to believe that he isn't "gone"; he's just drowning or something.



I think this is spot on. I wrote the below response first, but then realised you touched on it here.



Come to think of, I don't think he has ever said exactly what he's sorry for. I think he has said he's sorry that he hurt me..that kind of thing (but more thoughtfully than how I just worded it), but I don't think he's ever said exactly what he did. He apologised for my mother's death. But that's not something he did. He knows most "social rules", which apologising when someone dies, is. ("I'm sorry for your loss" is a pretty standard response).

In the whole time I've known him, possibly with the exception of this madness, he has never intentionally tried to hurt me. He's not a spiteful person, but sometimes he gets caught up in his own feelings and fails to see how what he's doing will hurt someone. When he realises, he tends to be very remorseful and want to make it up to you. So I DO believe that he is sorry that he hurt me...in that sense I "forgive" him - but it still stings just because that period of time was so horrible, you know?

We established very early on the "ask and tell" policy- if someone doesn't know what happened, they should ask, and if someone is angry, they should tell the other person why upfront. That has worked for us. Originally my instinct was to think he was just skirting the issue by pretending not to know, but then he'd be upset that I was upset and want to fix it, but not address what he did...and then realised...he actually doesn't know... This time, he hasn't asked. He has asked what he can do now to help me be happier (and I don't have a good answer because I don't know myself), but he hasn't asked what he did wrong. I think he knows what he did wrong, I think he MUST know, because it's pretty major. But I think he is still so caught up in the anxiety that he still isn't truly seeing it from my perspective. I could be wrong, I'm definitely not claiming to know what's going on...

As for my apology: I think I have been specific. I've addressed the specific things I remember saying that were really bad and explained that I don't really think that, and why I would say something I didn't mean, and why I was in the wrong to do that. I've also been trying to give him sincere positive feedback that illustrates the opposite of whatever I said, whenever the opportunity arises, especially because I am really scared of him killing himself... I truly want him to know that I value his presence on earth, because I do. From your perspective as someone with AS, does that sound like the right approach?

I'm having a mixed reaction to this; a mix between laughter and tears...... *sigh*
I really identify with the MIL acting like I'm an evil witch. That part I can definitively laugh about.