Medical Marijuana anyone?

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Zeraeph
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05 Sep 2011, 4:59 am

Gedrene wrote:

So you say it isn't physically addictive but that it is psychologically addictive. Doesn't that mean that it's still addictive?

I don't know, it's a subjective judgement really isn't it?

You could argue that anything and everything is psychologically addictive.

But still, any drug that is not physically addictive is way ahead of the pack in therapeutic value versus harm.

Having said that, I do not believe cannabis is the best choice for all Autistics, let alone some incredible "cure all". It may only be the best choice for a few, but that is worth looking into. It certainly seems to have a dramatically beneficial effect on other conditions such as the side effects of chemotherapy for cancer and multiple sclerosis, so it is time to accept that and work towards safe, controlled forms of delivery for those conditions.

Gedrene
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05 Sep 2011, 5:42 am

Zeraeph wrote:

Gedrene wrote:

So you say it isn't physically addictive but that it is psychologically addictive. Doesn't that mean that it's still addictive?

Agreed. Hopefully magic bullet chemical medication will dveelop in a few years, mediating and cutting off the problem of anxiey for good. Or maybe people wills top bullying children in the future, thus actually cutting stuff off at the source rather than requiring dodgy or expensive treatments.

Zeraeph
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05 Sep 2011, 6:16 am

Gedrene wrote:

D'you know what?

I am not sure cannabis should ever be considered as a generic anti-anxiety medication. The effects are so varied on different people, and it does seem to cause demotivation and apathy in many people that might take away anxiety in the short term while leaving you more to be anxious about in the long term?

Though the one big problem it would solve is that all the common anti-anxiety meds I can immediately think of are really horrendously physically addictive in long term use.

I cannot comment on the uses specific to autism because the effect it has on *me* personally would tend to make me far more autistic and withdrawn, but I am happy to accept the word of people who say it helps them. I do not know whether that is just about anxiety or whether it helps them in other ways too.

Also, anxiety isn't just for children...there are plenty of things in adult life that can (and even *SHOULD* - anxiety is the trip switch for some healthy life reflexes!) trigger severe anxiety. I think the problem is more that autistic people usually find it harder to turn anxiety *off* when it has served it's purpose.

Gedrene
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05 Sep 2011, 7:42 am

Zeraeph wrote:

I am not sure cannabis should ever be considered as a generic anti-anxiety medication. The effects are so varied on different people, and it does seem to cause demotivation and apathy in many people that might take away anxiety in the short term while leaving you more to be anxious about in the long term?

Again, I think we agree that any sort of intervention in to our biochemistry is suspect. Again, we believe that need not be the case in the short run.

Zeraeph
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05 Sep 2011, 8:17 am

Gedrene wrote:

Zeraeph wrote:

Again, I think we agree that any sort of intervention in to our biochemistry is suspect. Again, we believe that need not be the case in the short run.

Not quite what I was saying, though I certainly believe long term psychotropic drug use should always be a last resort rather than a first one.

I am not sure cannabis should be considered as a generic anti-anxiety medication in *we* (the human race) because it's effects are so variable and unpredictable compared to alternatives, though where the use will be long term there is a significant advantage in the absence of physical dependency. It needs to be decided on a case by case basis, which, in practice, never seems to happen with generic anti-anxiety medications. The reality tends to be that either your Doctor believes in dishing them out like smarties, or is reluctant to prescribe at all and what the individual patient actually needs seems almost irrelevant.

That is also the key to all forms of ASD. There is no "one size fits all" for therapy and treatment either. That also needs deciding on a case by case basis for individual patients, with the greatest tool being to actually *ASK* the patient what they need and how they are responding and listen to the answer.

This is particularly important when dealing with autistics because such a high proportion of us have atypical reactions to drugs and other therapies.

Sweetleaf
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05 Sep 2011, 11:25 am

Zeraeph wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Smoking should be off limits to children...

ABSOLUTELY...no child should ever be encouraged to smoke ANYTHING...nor even to know how (for the uninitiated, inhaling is *NOT* usually a natural reflex and can take some working out)

* I do not think cannabis can even be considered for other administration for medicinal purposes unless a healthy, controlled system of delivery can be devised.
* I think that anyone who tries to make people feel guilty for not breaking the law on behalf of their child needs a short sharp wake up call (to say the least), even if there were supporting evidence, and there is not.
* I do not think cannabis is helpful for all, or even most, autistics (thought it may still be helpful for a significant number, which must be recognised and explored) - it exacerbates my autism if anything, and I am not the only one - and a child may be totally unable to recognise and articulate this.
* If you are an adult, and you feel cannabis helps you, and you understand and accept the legal risks, the rule of "whatever gets you through the night should apply".
* THC (the active ingredient in cannabis) has never been shown to be addictive, despite multiple trials, though a psychological dependency can form over long periods of time in individuals otherwise predisposed to addiction.

Uhh the OP, is not giving her child edibles illegally or against their will.....I imagine they live in a state where medicinal marijuana is legal and was prescribed for the child. Also, apparently the drug the child was on was causing liver damage which the cannabis will not do......so if cannabis is safer and just as effective why not?

And of course it is not helpful for everyone with autism, or everyone without it....just like any other drug it works for some people and does not work for others.

Sweetleaf
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05 Sep 2011, 11:33 am

Zeraeph wrote:

Gedrene wrote:

So you say it isn't physically addictive but that it is psychologically addictive. Doesn't that mean that it's still addictive?

There are safe forms of delivery, they are called edibles.....there are others to, but yeah baked goods with cannabis in them are quite safe gotta be careful with how much you ingest with that though otherwise you will end up stoned out of your mind because edibles take a little longer to have effects but tend to be quite strong.

That being said though smoking is one of the quickest methods which is why some people choose that...In Colorado where I live medical marijuana is legal so if someone has their medical card they can smoke or otherwise ingest cannabis at their own discretion and also sort of regulate their own dosage. That is one controversial thing though, but the truth of the matter is there is no set dosage that works for everyone who uses not to mention the working dosage also depends upon the strain of marijuana so it would be ridiculous for a doctor to try and 'regulate' the use to the extent they can with other prescriptions....for instance one 20mg pill of whatever a day, but it does not work that way with cannabis.

Zeraeph
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05 Sep 2011, 11:43 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

Uhh the OP, is not giving her child edibles illegally or against their will....

I was speaking for more generally there Sweetleaf, having entered the discussion at a point where it had become very general. However, getting back to the OP (as is only polite):

shawniesmom wrote:

So my son has a classmate who like my son has been on rispirdal a long time and has begun to have liver function problems. His mother just confided in me that for the past 6months he has been a legal card holding medical marijuana user (edibles) It is having a less sedating effect than the rispirdal, but seems to address all of his anxiety, aggression and self injury issues, and has even become social with new people instead of melting down. I am considering heading down this path. I was wondering if anyone is using medical MJ for symptoms or has their child on it......i would appreciate any input pos or neg, how it helps your symptoms or anything. thank you

As I did say:

Zeraeph wrote:

I do not think cannabis is helpful for all, or even most, autistics (thought it may still be helpful for a significant number, which must be recognised and explored) - it exacerbates my autism if anything, and I am not the only one - and a child may be totally unable to recognise and articulate this.

Also, just fact checking, I came across studies that shows a significant co-relation between early cannabis use (under 15) and schizophrenia that needs taking into account in terms of the OP:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3X09001407 (in french)
http://ukcia.org/research/EnvironmentAn ... hrenia.pdf
http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/teen ... 1103071676

Sweetleaf
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05 Sep 2011, 11:57 am

Zeraeph wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Uhh the OP, is not giving her child edibles illegally or against their will....

I was speaking for more generally there Sweetleaf, having entered the discussion at a point where it had become very general. However, getting back to the OP (as is only polite):

shawniesmom wrote:

As I did say:

Zeraeph wrote:

Well yes it does not work for everyone I agree with you there.

Also there is no indication that marijuana uses 'causes' schizophrenia if used under 15........it can contribute to it in individuals with a pre-disposition. Also chronic excessive use could probably cause some problems, but I do not think that is what is taking place the amount nessisary to keep a child from feeling the need to self harm and be more calm is not excessive.

Also, though there are also people with that disorder who use cannabis.....so it is hard to say whether the cannabis contributed or if they use it for self medicating.

Zeraeph
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05 Sep 2011, 12:29 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

It's reasonable to assume that it contributed in at least some cases...but in truth that is not a case I am making, just information I came across that seemed particularly relevant to share in terms of the OP.

Personally I would not give cannabis to a child, but it is not my decision to make or live with so it seems just to provide any information relevant to that decision, and I do think these French studies are relevant.

Gedrene
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06 Sep 2011, 10:04 am

Zeraeph wrote:

Personally I would not give cannabis to a child, but it is not my decision to make or live with so it seems just to provide any information relevant to that decision, and I do think these French studies are relevant.

The studies are relevant. However, I don't agree with the first statement. All people have a right to intercede on events that don't effect them if what is being done is wrong. That's not just a right, but a responsibility.

Zeraeph
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06 Sep 2011, 11:28 am

Gedrene wrote:

Zeraeph wrote:

But "right" and "wrong" are so subjective, for instance it is also very wrong to interfere (even by applying mental and emotional pressure from a distance) in someone else's life without knowing all the objective facts, let alone the specific details. Particularly from the privileged position of not having to live with the responsibility, or fallout of any error.

ScientistOfSound
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06 Sep 2011, 11:59 am

Medical Cannabis is illegal in the UK unfortunately, but I think it would help me with my sleep problems. I don't use it (because I don't want to get in trouble) but I think it would be beneficial.

Its been proven to be beneficial to cancer patients also. The reason why our government hasn't legalized it for medical use is because big pharma would lose money.

Hell I think we should legalize it for recreational purposes too. Its alot safer than alchohol!

Zeraeph
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06 Sep 2011, 12:27 pm

ScientistOfSound wrote:

Medical Cannabis is illegal in the UK unfortunately, but I think it would help me with my sleep problems. I don't use it (because I don't want to get in trouble) but I think it would be beneficial.

Well if it works on you anything like the way it works on me (I do not actually like the stuff at all - which is a vastly different thing to thinking it is "evil" or "wrong" otherwise they would have to criminalise carrots) it would certainly work for that. Last time I had any (many years ago) I couldn't keep my eyes open to the point of embarassment (I was in someone else's house)

Pending legalisation, I am assuming you have tried melatonin? It's far from a "miracle cure" but it can help lots without side effects or addictive properties.

Aspiewordsmith
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12 Dec 2014, 5:13 pm

The reason why cannabis has a mild psychlological dependence is due to the fact that when you use it you do certain things which motivates the next use such as the kind of music in your music collection for example or being with people can increase enjoyment of cannabis as well. I have used it as an anticonvulsant for 16 years and have had by and large enjoyable experiences on it and I used it responsibly. I would rather see a branch of Dampkring open up in my town centre than another wine bar ot specialist pub. I do believe Sativex is now on prescription but that is only for multiple sclerosis. :arrow:

Jacoby
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12 Dec 2014, 5:56 pm

I think medical would be really helpful to me, I think can helpful to anyone really. Anxiety, stress, depression, sleep, helps you to eat, and can be real social activity and bonding experience with other people. I think to abuse in a sense and develop some psychological dependence to the point where it might effect some aspects but of your life but that could be said about anything like video games or gambling or online shopping or whatever. Everything in moderation obviously but it aint gonna kill you like most other drugs or alcohol will. A lot of people talk about it causing anxiety and I don't really agree, I think there are certain aspects about it that may cause anxiety but not marijuana itself, like to me 99% of anxiety I ever felt smoking was from some fear of getting caught and getting trouble from cops or parents or whoever and with it becoming legal and culturally accepted I think the vast majority of that at least with me will disappear. I was having some bad panic attacks earlier this year and I think smoking probably didn't help, I feel it bled thru tho rather than was caused by it and I would been having them either way.

My 2 brothers had epilepsy as children and it went away by the time they were teens and started smoking and I think it helped them. It might of went away on its own, I don't know but seeing these all these seizures growing and all these crazy medications and brain scans and whatever was tough and obviously way tougher for them so how can you deny someone something that can help treat it and make their lives better? My youngest brother has brain damage from epilepsy and other things but perhaps if he were of able to use this treatment legally as a young child he'd be better off today.

We put all these drugs into our body and we buy cold medicine and Tylenol over the counter but marijuana is a natural plant and is still illegal and can be used in so many to help people. It's fun to do too? It's straight up evil what the governments of the world do, it's not in our best interests I'll tell you that.

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