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aghogday
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29 Jul 2011, 12:35 am

ci wrote:
Oh damn to many people are like me and I don't feel all that unique anymore :lol:


I spent most of my life doing my very best to interact with others, and felt like I really accomplished something, when people seemed like they wanted to be around me. If I had given up on the possibility, because I assumed it was not possible or worthwhile because people were different than me, I would have missed out on a thousands of smiles that I saw during the course of my lifetime, a job, a home, a wife, and almost everything else good in my life. Maybe some with autism, don't have the luck that I had in gaining these things, but it was worth every second of effort and adaptation it took to have the life I had.

There was no other choice or excuse for me because I never understood I had autism until very late in life, even after a delay in language as a young child and problems with verbal communication in school.

Giving up and separating ourselves from others because we are different is never the only answer for everyone that is different, in fact it is hardly ever the correct answer from what I have experienced and observed in my life. It's the last thing that most social animals want in their life, regardless of the problems they have in interacting.



ci
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29 Jul 2011, 12:37 am

I will try to take the question in context to my job as an offline advocate.

Should certain people be segregated because of how they are?

Specifically having to do with employment and community integration under the Lanterman Act of California and federal laws respectably individuals have the right to be part of the community in how they choose. If as a society we deem individuals with disabilities only capable of and expected to remain in segregated employment environments we are underestimating human desire and undermining I believe quality of life. While no one should be forced to do what they do not want when someone chooses to attempt to function as so called normal people do they have every right and should be provided with the most innovative and constructive means to do so. Not throwing them into a employment position and left to their own means but creating circumstances so one can transition and develop the required skills. An individual may themselves never achieve comparable abilities as the norm but they have become more included and when applicable have an improved quality of life by enabling their choices and intents. I believe these such transitional circumstances have been by far avoided and left without innovative means for far to long in public relations.


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ci
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29 Jul 2011, 12:54 am

aghogday wrote:
ci wrote:
Oh damn to many people are like me and I don't feel all that unique anymore :lol:


I spent most of my life doing my very best to interact with others, and felt like I really accomplished something, when people seemed like they wanted to be around me. If I had given up on the possibility, because I assumed it was not possible or worthwhile because people were different than me, I would have missed out on a thousands of smiles that I saw during the course of my lifetime, a job, a home, a wife, and almost everything else good in my life. Maybe some with autism, don't have the luck that I had in gaining these things, but it was worth every second of effort and adaptation it took to have the life I had.

There was no other choice or excuse for me because I never understood I had autism until very late in life, even after a delay in language as a young child and problems with verbal communication in school.

Giving up and separating ourselves from others because we are different is never the only answer for everyone that is different, in fact it is hardly ever the correct answer from what I have experienced and observed in my life. It's the last thing that most social animals want in their life, regardless of the problems they have in interacting.


I have been so hard headed about working and achieving that I never looked to my disabilities or paid much attention to them. It only became necessary as obviously I was not able to achieve employment on my own and nearly became homeless and would have if I didn't get the help I needed. Still self-induced barriers I tend to avoid and just attempt to do whatever I set my mind to do. The notion that I am inferior or abnormal really doesn't come to mind to often unless someone points it out. Like why am I doing a I got to go pee pee dance stem (some call it that) when I don't have to pee rocking back and forth. It doesn't bother me what so ever.


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memesplice
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29 Jul 2011, 2:07 am

Yep I have a fictional immagination. That's because I am an aspiring writer. I'm actually skiving off writing,here, because I want a break from a novel I am trying to write. It's in bits and pieces and as I did more research I came to a point where I'm not even sure I want to write it any more.

You'll like the storyline. Group of NT/AS students figure out the nature of consciousness. Because they are young and have real no idea how the world works they mess around and hack into it. They do it for positive reasons and for laughs . The problem is what they do has a viral effect and soon the new 'cognitive operating system' spreads. People see the world more clearly, the delusion impodes. This causes conflict, which causes more conflict, pretty soon the students are so out of their depth they can't stop the process they have instigated . They have to ride it out to the end suddenly they are playing a many layered game with nuclear armed states, and global elites who rely on delusion to maintain the stability in the naturally forming hierchies in sytems they rule.

In my story one ending is the students move the whole human race to the next stage of our evolution,but the book asks the question if the cost of accelerated evolution was worth it because like any global change it is more or less a random occurance that give certain kinds
of species an advantage. ( Or is it a random?)

Now this is a metaphor. The work is a fiction and because if I finish it I want to sell it, so it's got the feel-good factor that inspite of itself the human race survives itself.

The reality of this is, if small groups of dissafected people start messing , and they are full anger and their minds are delusional then they are going to create more of this and the feeback cyclefor their efforts is going to be a negative. More powerful groups rely on anger and delusion to maintain theirposition and hierarchical control systems. Thses guys love anger and delusion becuase it is a free soucrce of energy and a necessary component in systems of economic and social control of mass populations. They require groups and individuals in the system to be antagonistic to another in order to maintain control.


Imagine all those little cognitive dynamos typing away 'out there' spreading discord and antagonism throughout the world. Those at the top of the hierarchy are laughing their socks off that they can push the right buttons and get others to do this, and then they'll check their investment portifolio and see how the civil war's going in a few African countries, how it's going in Arab countries and how much to invest in arms production that week.


Meme.



Gedrene
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29 Jul 2011, 2:13 am

Burzum wrote:
You don't throw lions and tigers into the same cage and then tell them to forget their differences.


Yeah, but that's like saying we are somehow that different. It would be more like if you threw desert lions and sahara lions in to the same cage. ANyways when you throw Lions and Tigers in to a cage you get Tigons!



androbot2084
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29 Jul 2011, 2:23 am

Well yes it is true . I have been fired from jobs because neurotypicals have considered me a dangerous psychopath. It is not because I threatened anyone but some neurotypicals simply do not trust anyone that they regard as mentally ill.



aghogday
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29 Jul 2011, 2:43 am

androbot2084 wrote:
Well yes it is true . I have been fired from jobs because neurotypicals have considered me a dangerous psychopath. It is not because I threatened anyone but some neurotypicals simply do not trust anyone that they regard as mentally ill.


Not sure where you live, but if in the USA, you could be covered by the American's with Disabilities Act, if they took action against you based on a disability, if your condition is assessed as disabling under the criteria of the act.

It does go to show though, as I think you are agreeing here, that the perception of people with Autism can be negatively influenced by extremist ideology within the Autistic community. Fortunately the majority of people here are proving that Autistic people in general strongly disagree with this kind of extremist ideology, seeing differences in others, but certainly not identifying the general population as somekind of enemy that must be defeated.



androbot2084
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29 Jul 2011, 2:59 am

Most of my employers are so ambiguous that it would be difficult to pursue a case against them. They simply say that I am too dangerous without citing any reason for their opinion. Autistics are generally not known for their extremist ideologies but rather employers are ignorant about what autism is so employers consider me a schizophrenic nutcase that they would rather not have around.



memesplice
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29 Jul 2011, 4:08 am

Here's few stages of our evolution laid out for you.

1 For our purposes let's imagine the game starts here, in reality it goes back much further.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7XuXi3mqYM[/youtube]

2. We advance a bit , here's the intermediate stage .

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibW0lICnO3k[/youtube]

3.We get to another stage and the agression becomes abstract and the conflict is not outside our back doors.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9mWAxHpeew&feature=related[/youtube]

In all these stages one bunch of apes benefit at the cost of the rest of the troupe and other groups of apes. Now the next stage on is some system, some new way of thinking at a fundemental level beyond conventional politics ideology and religion, one that I can't imagine for real. But my reason tells me it is not another goup of people who try to follow this current evolutionary path.

It is not 'NT's' who are the problem- the problem is how those who have become aware of where we are at, recognise where we are at ,and figure out how to extricate themselves from existing evolutionary systems. That can, an dpossibly has to be done constructively and without hatred.

If you really want to see the whole thing , run all the vids simultaneously, it makes more sense.

Meme



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29 Jul 2011, 7:29 am

so what exactly is the polictical agenda of your autistic supremacy group,i dont think anything could be dumber than AS or asan so what could i gain by joining this orgnizaton


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aspie48
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29 Jul 2011, 8:34 am

vermontsavant wrote:
so what exactly is the polictical agenda of your autistic supremacy group,i dont think anything could be dumber than AS or asan so what could i gain by joining this orgnizaton

my political agenda is to educate a new generation of autistic poeple to interact with other autistic people and learn self respect and free thinking that NTs have tried to crush. We will take pride in our autism. On the practical side, I plan to establish large autism-run businesses so that we are an essential part of our society and we will not be removed because of that. I am going to particularly focus on agriculture and software development. My movement is mostly for my school aged friends, so like 15 or so. The end goal is described here http://autism-supremacy.webs.com/apps/b ... tic-future



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29 Jul 2011, 9:40 am

sounds good i read your blog.i have recently started my own limousine company.right now its just me but if i do need full time employees some day i have thought of hire people with DD's only.there is organization in my area that could help me with that


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aspie48
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29 Jul 2011, 9:52 am

vermontsavant wrote:
sounds good i read your blog.i have recently started my own limousine company.right now its just me but if i do need full time employees some day i have thought of hire people with DD's only.there is organization in my area that could help me with that

thats a good idea. i can't help you yet because Im 15 and don't live in vermont but that seems like a great idea. you could also hire aspergers and autistics who can't find jobs, in this economy you could really help a lot of people.



memesplice
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29 Jul 2011, 11:09 am

Aspie48- I going to be old soon, not so old to be useless. This country is very cruel to older people. Loads of older folk die quietly from the cold in winter because they can't afford the fuel to stay warm and buy enough food as well.

You get somewhere nice sunny and warm and give me loads of wood to chop and walls to build and things to mend , shingles to fix, (and I'll need a dog). I'll think about it , as long as you don't go around hating no one. :)

Have you ever read a 1970's sci fi called the Persistence Of Vision. I haven't read it for years but your thoughts reminded me of this story, I manged to find it online. Its about agroup of blind people who formed their own commune.

http://www.univeros.com/usenet/cache/al ... Vision.pdf

Hey, a fictional version of your ideas would be a really good read, you should write something, I'd definetly read it and comment on it.



ci
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29 Jul 2011, 12:52 pm

I think some of the ideas can be used but the whole idea of superiority due to a diagnostic label is insulting to some. Firstly autism is the source of hardship and to be proud of it makes lessor those realities. Yet again I suggest dropping the made up label about disability if you feel it is not a disability. It's a label about disability which is not discrimination due to this. To go up against it and say it is somehow a superiority there are several conflicts of interest and I am sure certain special interest groups having to do with tax-dollars would love to lesson the awareness with concern to the hardships of it for political purposes.

I don't go along with such games because all the people I know with autism don't seem to bother much with the label, self-identification with the label or seem to express inferiority or superiority. I think it's just the result of some members of online social groups impacted by false beliefs of the world around them and their response to the idea of negativity in a label they have taken way to seriously and attributed to an identity. IT is easily explainable in possabilic analytics.

The same kinds of benefits without the negatives from a focus on superiority can be found with other methods of coping.


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androbot2084
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29 Jul 2011, 1:27 pm

Ci you have got it all wrong. It is a fact that autism is an inspiration for genius which is definitely a superior advantage. Unfortunately many geniuses are misunderstood and suffer severe forms of oppression simply because a normal person cannot understand how a genius mind works. Einstein was no exception and even he faced violent opposition from mediocre minds. His theory was only accepted after his current generation of scientific peers died out and there was overwhelming evidence collected that supported his theory. Einstein was lucky that his ideas were even considered. There are many autistic geniuses today who are not so lucky and are dismissed by neurotypicals as being mentally ill nutjobs and unfortunately this opinion has the full backing of the medical establishment.

The medical establishment constantly begs the question that if autism is not a disease and a cancer why are there low functioning autistics who cannot speak? Einstein is no exception to the paradox because Einstein's son was a low functioning autistic. And now the medical establishment tries to tell us that Einstein achieved in spite of his autism and that he would have been an even greater scientist had he not had the disadvantage of autism,