Why "Neurodiversity" is wrong

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Yes lets give credit where it's due. On the whole we are evolving as a community despite still having to climb mount everest to gain equality/access

I have moderate classic autism and no amount of that nonsense will change the impairments I have. I'm not just "different," I'm disabled.

No one is denying you're disabled. There seems to be a persistent misunderstanding that the neurodiversity perspective entails denying disability. For most proponents, it doesn't mean that.

This is going to be a hard sell Mona...

The problem is more about the language used that tries to whitewash or down play the disability.

from ASAN site:

https://autisticadvocacy.org/about-asan ... tatements/





Yes there is its called NT without mental illness



They basically state in words without differentiating between severity that autism should not be got rid of. So basically someone severely impacted to a degree where they have a shorted life expectancy and reduced quality of life should in principal not be changed and allowed to die a miserable early death, just to suit ASAN`s belief system. Is it any wonder many would find that very offensive and why ND locks out so many autistic people.



Do the people in these videos look like they are celebrating?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOueptX8B5M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jrqpn60d4A

Actually, if people in general were to learn to be more assertive ("confronting people who make you uncomfortable every time they do so"), without being aggressive, this would benefit everyone, not just autistic people. Lots of how-to-be-successful websites have tutorials on how to be assertive without being aggressive.


At least in the short term, what needs to be done is to create these "pockets" of acceptance. Changes to the larger society would be a longer-term project, with the "pockets" serving as a model.

Expecting changes to society as a whole to happen instantly is not realistic. But, if and when the desired changes do finally happen, they won't be a harmful imposition on NT's. On the contrary, there will be many curb cut effects that will benefit society as a whole.

I don’t like the way they spell autistic with a capital A.

It's a NT world where most, if not all, of the major scientific advances have been made by the ND.

The average person has no flippin' clue what autism really is. I think ND is a good way to present it to them to quash their negative stereotypes. But it would be wrong to deny that disability is always a part of it. And that the goal is to have-the-back of everyone on the spectrum.

The timeless, epic battle of the Aspies vs. the NTs

Every brain is different and most are not different in a way that would get them a diagnostic label.

I would say MOST Autistic people SHOULD be accepted warts and all and if one is unable to do that just stay away and leave alone.

Two short videos do not demonstrate autism usually equals hell for all involved.

I can not tell what is causing the child to melt down in video 1. We do not see what happened before the video was shot. I did observe the mother touching her which could be the problem. If things were ameliorated maybe some of the melting down would be.

Again hard to tell from a brief video but I do not see any obvious signs of unhappiness in the adult autistic in video 2. The self identified warrior mother is unhappy with his positioning and "non communication". To her credit she identified triggers and was actively ameliorating them.

Treatments to reduce the severity of one or more specific impairments is not the same thing as a treatment that attempts to "cure autism" in the sense of trying to make your entire brain totally NT. Don't you see that the latter kind of treatment would be much more radical than the former, hence much more dangerous and much more likely to be harmful?

For the more severely disabled autistic people, it seems to me that what's needed, primarily, is treatments that focus specifically on their communication difficulties and/or their motor difficulties (the latter of which, in at least some cases, are a significant cause of the former).

Also, at least some non-speaking autistic children are capable of learning how to read and write/type, if only someone would teach them. Too often, however, little or no effort is made to do so. There has been a recent trend toward teaching nonverbal kids to communicate using picture-based AAC, which is much better than no communication at all, but probably falls drastically short of developing the actual capabilities of many (we don't know how many) nonverbal autistic kids.

EDIT: Alas, this has NOT been a major area of research, but it is known to be an issue. See, for example, the following Spectrum News articles:

- Standard tests underestimate nonverbal children with autism, 14 April 2015
- Words say little about cognitive abilities in autism, 5 September 2016
- Revealing autism’s hidden strengths, 19 December 2018

IMO, much more research needs to be done on how to help nonverbal autistic kids learn to read and write/type. Once a lot more severely disabled autistic kids have learned to read and write/type, it will then be much easier for them to participate in research studies, so that autism research generally can focus more on the needs of the more severely disabled autistic people -- who currently are under-represented in autism research.

Neurodiversity is BS!

I am disabled and even though I’m considered high functioning my Aspergers/HFA impacts me in many different ways. It impacts my ability to obtain and keep employment. It impacts my concentration. It impacts my executive functioning and my emotional regulation. It impacts my motor coordination as well making exercise difficult and almost dangerous for me.

Neurodiversity says that there are differing brain variations and they should all be accepted as in having all kinds of differing rights and entitlements. As you all see from posts in the past I can’t stand conservativism and the whole personal responsibility and positive attitude BS. I rail on and on against the problems and issues of personal responsibility and positivity. Neurodiversity is just another social justice warrior movement and quite honestly I like the SJWs and their BS even less then conservativism.

I digress! It’s time to knock down this neurodiversity movement and explain why I think it is BS. I agree with the first domino which says that there are differing brain variations. The second domino which says that, “they should all be accepted as in having all kinds rights and entitlements” or others should accept them for who they are. Should we be accepted for who we are with all kinds of rights and entitlements. There are major issues I have with this concept.

A. What most neurodiversity supporters don’t/can’t accept is that with rights come responsibilities. Ok, we’re accepted for who we are and we’re accepted as a natural variation just like being black or gay. With this acceptance, what will be our responsibilities? And, let’s say we’re given accommodations including exemption from eye contact, alternates to interviews, etc we will still be expected to work, find work and do the duties of our job. Will our executive functioning and social skills allow us to do this? What about other things like paying taxes, medical insurance, etc? We would still have to do these things. Can I do these things as a disabled person? Can I do the things Normal people can if these things are required of me since now that I have rights I have these tacked on responsibilities as well?

B. Those in Neurodiversity gloss over those who would be considered low functioning? My adopted nephew has both autism and cerebral palsy. He is nonverbal and the most he does is rocks in his wheel chair all day and makes noises. How does acceptance come into play for him? He is treated as a person non grata when it comes to the neurodiversity agenda. He is completely ignored since he does not fit their agenda.

C. Cure VS acceptance and/or the Medical Model of Disability vs the Social Model of Disability

The medical model of disability says that our and any disability is a medical condition and treated as such. The social model of disability says it is societal standards that are the issue and that it is society that creates barriers that impede us especially when it comes to employment.

The problem with this is that it presumes I must fully take one side or the other when sometimes there are grey areas. My adopted nephew truthfully needs treatment for what he has or a cure. He can’t even wipe his own ass. For me though, acceptance would work in certain cases but what about the things acceptance wouldn’t work on. I have executive functioning issues which means I have difficulty with planning, finding where to go, planning my day, knowing how to prioritize my thoughts and tasks, etc. This means I would have tons of issues not just with employment but with paying bills, taxes, medical, knowing when to go to the store or not, self-control, emotional regulation etc. How would societal acceptance or treating my autism as a civil rights issue help me with this stuff? I don’t need acceptance for these things. I need real, effective medical treatment. Let me put it to you this way, it took me twice as long to go to college then the average person due to my executive functioning and concentration problems.

D. Neurodiversity does not allow room for growth and improvement if growth and improvement would do the individual good. Neurodiversity comes from the idea of be yourself, be true to who you are and if you do this things will work out. I don’t accept this to be true. What the be yourselfers, the gotta keep it realers, etc don’t accept is that sometimes who you currently are sucks major as*hole. I’m executive disfunctioned. I have concentration problems.

My tongue gets tied all the time meaning a lot of times my mind gets locked and I literally can’t respond. I have extreme difficulty conversations in a noisy room. I would love to get rid of all this and if curing my autism meant I could be more functional I would get it cured. Let’s not forget the theory of mind issues that come along with it meaning I can’t read the thoughts, intentions, and body language of others. This can make me come across as inconsiderate without my meaning to. How does neurodiversity and being myself work with this? Wouldn’t it be better to somehow come up with more effective treatments and a cure for these things? How has being true to myself helped me out and helped others out in the end?

E. There is another reason as well I think Neurodiversity is pure unadulterated BS! There are a number of those who want a cure for Aspergers/Autism such as myself. What the people in Neurodiversity is doing whether purposely or not is taking away my choice for this cure. When NDers use all kinds of tactics to change public policy to favor their agenda instead of the cure agenda are they not taking away our choice? Where is our side’s diversity at? Shouldn’t true diversity involve choice?

F. We in Neurodiversity want to be able to be ourselves and be accepted for who we are but what if this involves costs as in other people’s tax dollars? There is another cost though. And, that’s the social costs. As in, those around us having to be our caretakers and dealing with our issues including our meltdowns, etc. And, what happens if I have to take someone who I love to the hospital? Could I do that? Could I communicate effectively with the doctors and nurses at all concerning their health? What if being myself and true to myself is not only harmful to myself but indirectly harmful others around me? This is another strong reason I wish to be cured of this horrible disability. It not only impacts me but others around me. If has affected my marriage to my SO big time.

G. There is another reason why I think Neurodiversity is BS. Let at the bureau of labor statistics. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/disabl.pdf

What are the percentage of those with disabilities who are employed vs those with disabilities unemployed vs those who are not even in the labor force? Ask yourself the same question for those without a disability? Now, ask yourself the question how has Neurodiversity and organizations like ASAN increase those on the autism spectrum’s prospects for employment and what about non ASD disabled prospects? How has it increased the employment prospects for those who are non-ASD disabled? What is the percentage of increase or decrease of those who found employment and that employment enabled them to support themselves and be independent? What is the effectiveness of all of these ND organizations and Neurodiversity itself?

In an argument which has sides to it one has to weigh the pros, cons and evidence of the differing sides. One has to look at the philosophy of the differing sides and see where their philosophy takes them. I supported neurodiversity for a long time and looking at both sides of the entire debate, my experiences as well as the experiences of others sometimes one has to change his position. Sometimes one has to go to the other side because the other side makes more sense. I consider myself a rational and logical man. One of the most rational and logical things one can do is to know when one is wrong about something and change his mind. Letting go of his previously beliefs and embracing new ones.

I believe in neurodiversity-----because there are times when autistic people can do absolutely amazing things.

Alzheimer's has a lot of overrunning symptoms with executive dysfunctions and theory of mind is not so hot either, and their is no current cure, we in general give a lot of accommodations to that population. While autistic executive dysfunctions are not Alzheimers exactly why is accommodating us horrible but ok with Alzheimer's patients?

If ND is so clueless and uncaring about anybody except elitist "high functioning" "Aspies" why are advocating against sheltered workshops? That is trying to help people not in the shiny aspie capacity with work issues.

If ND is throwing the low functioning under the bus why do they hold days of mourning for victims of fillicide and advocate against thinking of fillicide against autistic persons as lesser evils than other fillicides? These victims are not usually shiny aspie types either.

About that positivity thing I agree that the everything will work out if you just think positive that is so pukingly prevalent in America is unrealistic and a set up for usual failure. But the opposite has its major problems. I am horrible or have this horrible disability attitude discourages you and defeats you before you start and it makes a difficult situation impossible.

No you don't. ND advocates are starting to come around to these gray areas and in some ways as been pointed out over and over again in these pages have always been around. That said IMHO the ND movement has been guilty of not fully following up on "nothing with us without us" slogan. Pro cure autistics are "us".

Taking the above further everybody needs to compromise. Up until recently everything has been a one way street we are the wrong, we have to change utterly and completely. That is why the ND movement started and the remaining continuation of that thinking why it is still needed. Sure they have oft failed due to being an outlier opinion, being vastly outspent and f*****g up by over correcting and just f*****g up. We/our autism are the problem period did not work in the past and I see no reason that going back there will work again.

Believing in ND is one thing.....creating a ND community is quite the other....

I don’t believe in segregation. Away from the big, bad NTs.

I believe in creating a community of support for each other.