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Ganondox
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04 Dec 2014, 12:51 am

Jaden wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
No, that would defeat the purpose of having an autism spectrum...the whole point is most people do not have autism, and do not have the struggles autism comes with...I hate these 'aren't we all autistic' articles and what not but I guess I will look at it.


Totally agree, I can't stand when people say that phrase, all they're doing by taking that stance is minimalizing our struggles, and using themselves as an example of how we 'can do better if we try'. It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face. To top it off, it's offensive when people say that, because it makes us sound like a bunch of complainers who are lazy and want what they like to call a 'free ride' through life (which is yet another ignorant view, but that's another discussion).


From what I've seen, most often that isn't the intent, rather the intent is to be comforting by saying "you aren't different."


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04 Dec 2014, 12:54 am

Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
No, that would defeat the purpose of having an autism spectrum...the whole point is most people do not have autism, and do not have the struggles autism comes with...I hate these 'aren't we all autistic' articles and what not but I guess I will look at it.


Totally agree, I can't stand when people say that phrase, all they're doing by taking that stance is minimalizing our struggles, and using themselves as an example of how we 'can do better if we try'. It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face. To top it off, it's offensive when people say that, because it makes us sound like a bunch of complainers who are lazy and want what they like to call a 'free ride' through life (which is yet another ignorant view, but that's another discussion).


From what I've seen, most often that isn't the intent, rather the intent is to be comforting by saying "you aren't different."


What makes them think telling someone who clearly deviates from the norm, 'you aren't different' is going to make them feel better? when the individual on the receiving end knows damn well it isn't true?


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04 Dec 2014, 1:15 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
No, that would defeat the purpose of having an autism spectrum...the whole point is most people do not have autism, and do not have the struggles autism comes with...I hate these 'aren't we all autistic' articles and what not but I guess I will look at it.


Totally agree, I can't stand when people say that phrase, all they're doing by taking that stance is minimalizing our struggles, and using themselves as an example of how we 'can do better if we try'. It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face. To top it off, it's offensive when people say that, because it makes us sound like a bunch of complainers who are lazy and want what they like to call a 'free ride' through life (which is yet another ignorant view, but that's another discussion).


From what I've seen, most often that isn't the intent, rather the intent is to be comforting by saying "you aren't different."


What makes them think telling someone who clearly deviates from the norm, 'you aren't different' is going to make them feel better? when the individual on the receiving end knows damn well it isn't true?


I agree. Denying something important that a person is sharing is a slap in the face. If mitigates our experience and struggles as if they are too impolite to talk about. Which maybe they are.



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04 Dec 2014, 1:28 am

androbot01 wrote:

I agree. Denying something important that a person is sharing is a slap in the face. If mitigates our experience and struggles as if they are too impolite to talk about. Which maybe they are.


Exactly, even if that is not the intent that is how that sort of thing comes off. I mean hell one can argue about intent all they want but it doesn't change it. I mean hell there have been times I have hurt peoples feelings without meaning to and from what I can tell my intent does not make much difference...so does no good to tell them how much I didn't mean it...probably better to just say 'hey sorry that was uncalled for' and leave it at that.


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04 Dec 2014, 3:05 am

Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
No, that would defeat the purpose of having an autism spectrum...the whole point is most people do not have autism, and do not have the struggles autism comes with...I hate these 'aren't we all autistic' articles and what not but I guess I will look at it.


Totally agree, I can't stand when people say that phrase, all they're doing by taking that stance is minimalizing our struggles, and using themselves as an example of how we 'can do better if we try'. It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face. To top it off, it's offensive when people say that, because it makes us sound like a bunch of complainers who are lazy and want what they like to call a 'free ride' through life (which is yet another ignorant view, but that's another discussion).


From what I've seen, most often that isn't the intent, rather the intent is to be comforting by saying "you aren't different."


I'm with others on this, we all know that we actually are different, and people telling us that we aren't is just another phrase that minimalizes our struggles. Whether that's the intent or not, that is the result.
The fact will always remain, we are different, it's generally obvious to others and sometimes even us, and if we weren't different, there wouldn't be any reason to have groups like this in the first place. Afterall, there aren't any support groups for having a normal brain, is there? And why is that? Simple; because it's normal, there's nothing hindering about it.


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04 Dec 2014, 5:45 am

what person could possible disagree that sensory issues aren't the biggest issue in autism.and of coarse differentley people experience there senses differently.

why your mocking scientific fact I cant understand


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04 Dec 2014, 6:05 am

Jaden wrote:
Wrong on both counts. The spectrum was created to show how the neurological differences effect us, by comparing it to the 'norm', which is everyone else. If everyone were truly on the spectrum, there would be no spectrum because there would be absolutely no basis for real comparison.


No, it doesn't invalidate comparisons, the differences are still there. Yet, there are times when NTs do show or have AS traits, and it points to NTs being on the same spectrum. That doesn't mean it's the same thing, or have the same neurological differences, or to the same degree, or have the same situations and challenges, or that they both cancel each other out, you're just misunderstanding this.



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04 Dec 2014, 11:28 am

I've posted this before, but here's my rather lengthy view on how I think of the spectrum presently.

And here's sort of the TLDR picture version of that post:

Image

Defining the autism spectrum as the green portion and saying, only autistic people are on the autism spectrum is sort of semantics, IMO. I don't think there's really a binary distinction between autistic and neurotypical. If there is one, it's certainly not one that has any sort of consensus or hard definition among mental health professionals. That concept also ignores the non-linear nature of the spectrum, and the fact that autism seems to impact us all in different ways.



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04 Dec 2014, 10:37 pm

Moromillas wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Wrong on both counts. The spectrum was created to show how the neurological differences effect us, by comparing it to the 'norm', which is everyone else. If everyone were truly on the spectrum, there would be no spectrum because there would be absolutely no basis for real comparison.


No, it doesn't invalidate comparisons, the differences are still there. Yet, there are times when NTs do show or have AS traits, and it points to NTs being on the same spectrum. That doesn't mean it's the same thing, or have the same neurological differences, or to the same degree, or have the same situations and challenges, or that they both cancel each other out, you're just misunderstanding this.


An NT exhibiting a couple traits that people with aspergers also exibit does not put them on the same spectrum....I mean we are still humans after all. Besides if we're all 'on the same spectrum' then what is the point of terms like neurotypical or autism? And yes saying everyone is on the autism spectrum indicates everyone has those differences/difficulties related to autism which is ridiculous.


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04 Dec 2014, 10:51 pm

I think people who say "everyone is" are well-meaning but misguided. They think they are helping.



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05 Dec 2014, 2:58 am

Jaden wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
No, that would defeat the purpose of having an autism spectrum...the whole point is most people do not have autism, and do not have the struggles autism comes with...I hate these 'aren't we all autistic' articles and what not but I guess I will look at it.


Totally agree, I can't stand when people say that phrase, all they're doing by taking that stance is minimalizing our struggles, and using themselves as an example of how we 'can do better if we try'. It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face. To top it off, it's offensive when people say that, because it makes us sound like a bunch of complainers who are lazy and want what they like to call a 'free ride' through life (which is yet another ignorant view, but that's another discussion).


From what I've seen, most often that isn't the intent, rather the intent is to be comforting by saying "you aren't different."


I'm with others on this, we all know that we actually are different, and people telling us that we aren't is just another phrase that minimalizes our struggles. Whether that's the intent or not, that is the result.
The fact will always remain, we are different, it's generally obvious to others and sometimes even us, and if we weren't different, there wouldn't be any reason to have groups like this in the first place. Afterall, there aren't any support groups for having a normal brain, is there? And why is that? Simple; because it's normal, there's nothing hindering about it.


Obviously you are still different, it's not different as in not fundamentally different, just more autistic than the rest. It should be noted that this isn't just done as an attempt to comfort autistic people, but also to get understanding from neurotypicals. Aside from a few articles like this, I pretty much only see the "everyone is a little autistic" rhetoric from the neurodiversity camp (albeit more the NTs in the camp than the actual autistics), so their intent wouldn't be to minimize our struggles, though their efforts sometimes get interpreted that way.

Basically what B19 said. Remember, just because NTs fail to empathize doesn't mean they are out to get us or whatnot. We don't need to demonize them.


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05 Dec 2014, 4:41 am

Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
No, that would defeat the purpose of having an autism spectrum...the whole point is most people do not have autism, and do not have the struggles autism comes with...I hate these 'aren't we all autistic' articles and what not but I guess I will look at it.


Totally agree, I can't stand when people say that phrase, all they're doing by taking that stance is minimalizing our struggles, and using themselves as an example of how we 'can do better if we try'. It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face. To top it off, it's offensive when people say that, because it makes us sound like a bunch of complainers who are lazy and want what they like to call a 'free ride' through life (which is yet another ignorant view, but that's another discussion).


From what I've seen, most often that isn't the intent, rather the intent is to be comforting by saying "you aren't different."


I'm with others on this, we all know that we actually are different, and people telling us that we aren't is just another phrase that minimalizes our struggles. Whether that's the intent or not, that is the result.
The fact will always remain, we are different, it's generally obvious to others and sometimes even us, and if we weren't different, there wouldn't be any reason to have groups like this in the first place. Afterall, there aren't any support groups for having a normal brain, is there? And why is that? Simple; because it's normal, there's nothing hindering about it.


Basically what B19 said. Remember, just because NTs fail to empathize doesn't mean they are out to get us or whatnot. We don't need to demonize them.


Funny, I don't remember demonizing anyone, nor did I claim they were 'out to get us', I've simply outlined that they're wrong in their assumptions, and that those assumptions are off-putting.


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Ganondox
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05 Dec 2014, 5:00 am

Jaden wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
No, that would defeat the purpose of having an autism spectrum...the whole point is most people do not have autism, and do not have the struggles autism comes with...I hate these 'aren't we all autistic' articles and what not but I guess I will look at it.


Totally agree, I can't stand when people say that phrase, all they're doing by taking that stance is minimalizing our struggles, and using themselves as an example of how we 'can do better if we try'. It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face. To top it off, it's offensive when people say that, because it makes us sound like a bunch of complainers who are lazy and want what they like to call a 'free ride' through life (which is yet another ignorant view, but that's another discussion).


From what I've seen, most often that isn't the intent, rather the intent is to be comforting by saying "you aren't different."


I'm with others on this, we all know that we actually are different, and people telling us that we aren't is just another phrase that minimalizes our struggles. Whether that's the intent or not, that is the result.
The fact will always remain, we are different, it's generally obvious to others and sometimes even us, and if we weren't different, there wouldn't be any reason to have groups like this in the first place. Afterall, there aren't any support groups for having a normal brain, is there? And why is that? Simple; because it's normal, there's nothing hindering about it.


Basically what B19 said. Remember, just because NTs fail to empathize doesn't mean they are out to get us or whatnot. We don't need to demonize them.


Funny, I don't remember demonizing anyone, nor did I claim they were 'out to get us', I've simply outlined that they're wrong in their assumptions, and that those assumptions are off-putting.


"It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face."


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05 Dec 2014, 3:19 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Wrong on both counts. The spectrum was created to show how the neurological differences effect us, by comparing it to the 'norm', which is everyone else. If everyone were truly on the spectrum, there would be no spectrum because there would be absolutely no basis for real comparison.


No, it doesn't invalidate comparisons, the differences are still there. Yet, there are times when NTs do show or have AS traits, and it points to NTs being on the same spectrum. That doesn't mean it's the same thing, or have the same neurological differences, or to the same degree, or have the same situations and challenges, or that they both cancel each other out, you're just misunderstanding this.


An NT exhibiting a couple traits that people with aspergers also exibit does not put them on the same spectrum....I mean we are still humans after all. Besides if we're all 'on the same spectrum' then what is the point of terms like neurotypical or autism? And yes saying everyone is on the autism spectrum indicates everyone has those differences/difficulties related to autism which is ridiculous.


Yes it does, and it indicates NT is part of that spectrum. There's no getting around this, you can't ignore that the traits are sometimes apparent (in NTs), and you can't say they're an AS person as they're clearly an NT.

You appear to be misunderstanding what a spectrum is. It's not as simple as there are Autistic people, then there are Aspergians, then there are NTs, it's too simple. To put it in such simplistic terms, you have to make some rather large generalisations.

No it doesn't. The comparison you've made, is like saying Autistic people have the exact same differences/etc as Aspergians. No, being on the same spectrum doesn't mean they're the same, even within just Asperger's, no Aspergian would be the same as the next.



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05 Dec 2014, 3:52 pm

Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
No, that would defeat the purpose of having an autism spectrum...the whole point is most people do not have autism, and do not have the struggles autism comes with...I hate these 'aren't we all autistic' articles and what not but I guess I will look at it.


Totally agree, I can't stand when people say that phrase, all they're doing by taking that stance is minimalizing our struggles, and using themselves as an example of how we 'can do better if we try'. It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face. To top it off, it's offensive when people say that, because it makes us sound like a bunch of complainers who are lazy and want what they like to call a 'free ride' through life (which is yet another ignorant view, but that's another discussion).


From what I've seen, most often that isn't the intent, rather the intent is to be comforting by saying "you aren't different."


I'm with others on this, we all know that we actually are different, and people telling us that we aren't is just another phrase that minimalizes our struggles. Whether that's the intent or not, that is the result.
The fact will always remain, we are different, it's generally obvious to others and sometimes even us, and if we weren't different, there wouldn't be any reason to have groups like this in the first place. Afterall, there aren't any support groups for having a normal brain, is there? And why is that? Simple; because it's normal, there's nothing hindering about it.


Basically what B19 said. Remember, just because NTs fail to empathize doesn't mean they are out to get us or whatnot. We don't need to demonize them.


Funny, I don't remember demonizing anyone, nor did I claim they were 'out to get us', I've simply outlined that they're wrong in their assumptions, and that those assumptions are off-putting.


"It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face."


If you call that 'demonizing' them, then you obviously can't tell the difference between 'demonizing' someone, and calling them out and exposing their ignorance.
Fact: There is a spectrum, because people display a number of attributes that fall outside the specified normality, not just one attribute, but multiple. People that say that everyone is on the spectrum based on one or two traits that doesn't even qualify them for diagnosis on the Autism Spectrum, is obviously ignorant of not only why the spectrum exists in the first place, but also ignorant of the obvious difference between us and everyone else, and they are fooling themselves if they think a few similarities qualify them to be on that spectrum. People on the spectrum have real neurological differences that cause probably 90% (or more) of the problems that we have, and they are so far beyond just the tiny bit that people off of the spectrum deal with that it's not even funny.
The Autism Spectrum is not a fan club, it's a diagnosis, and it's a tool to allow people to understand to what degree that someone has Autism. Do people exhibit a symptom here and there? Sure, but does that qualify them for a diagnosis (and in extension, to be put on the spectrum) of an Autistic Spectrum Disorder? Absolutely not. So again, people who believe that a tiny similarity automatically puts someone on the spectrum is obviously ignorant of real fact and they are fooling themselves into continuing to believe such nonsense.


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06 Dec 2014, 2:40 am

Jaden wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
No, that would defeat the purpose of having an autism spectrum...the whole point is most people do not have autism, and do not have the struggles autism comes with...I hate these 'aren't we all autistic' articles and what not but I guess I will look at it.


Totally agree, I can't stand when people say that phrase, all they're doing by taking that stance is minimalizing our struggles, and using themselves as an example of how we 'can do better if we try'. It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face. To top it off, it's offensive when people say that, because it makes us sound like a bunch of complainers who are lazy and want what they like to call a 'free ride' through life (which is yet another ignorant view, but that's another discussion).


From what I've seen, most often that isn't the intent, rather the intent is to be comforting by saying "you aren't different."


I'm with others on this, we all know that we actually are different, and people telling us that we aren't is just another phrase that minimalizes our struggles. Whether that's the intent or not, that is the result.
The fact will always remain, we are different, it's generally obvious to others and sometimes even us, and if we weren't different, there wouldn't be any reason to have groups like this in the first place. Afterall, there aren't any support groups for having a normal brain, is there? And why is that? Simple; because it's normal, there's nothing hindering about it.


Basically what B19 said. Remember, just because NTs fail to empathize doesn't mean they are out to get us or whatnot. We don't need to demonize them.


Funny, I don't remember demonizing anyone, nor did I claim they were 'out to get us', I've simply outlined that they're wrong in their assumptions, and that those assumptions are off-putting.


"It's a stance that is taken by egotists and ignorant fools who couldn't understand the spectrum if it slapped them in the face."


If you call that 'demonizing' them, then you obviously can't tell the difference between 'demonizing' someone, and calling them out and exposing their ignorance.
Fact: There is a spectrum, because people display a number of attributes that fall outside the specified normality, not just one attribute, but multiple. People that say that everyone is on the spectrum based on one or two traits that doesn't even qualify them for diagnosis on the Autism Spectrum, is obviously ignorant of not only why the spectrum exists in the first place, but also ignorant of the obvious difference between us and everyone else, and they are fooling themselves if they think a few similarities qualify them to be on that spectrum. People on the spectrum have real neurological differences that cause probably 90% (or more) of the problems that we have, and they are so far beyond just the tiny bit that people off of the spectrum deal with that it's not even funny.
The Autism Spectrum is not a fan club, it's a diagnosis, and it's a tool to allow people to understand to what degree that someone has Autism. Do people exhibit a symptom here and there? Sure, but does that qualify them for a diagnosis (and in extension, to be put on the spectrum) of an Autistic Spectrum Disorder? Absolutely not. So again, people who believe that a tiny similarity automatically puts someone on the spectrum is obviously ignorant of real fact and they are fooling themselves into continuing to believe such nonsense.


"If you call that 'demonizing' them, then you obviously can't tell the difference between 'demonizing' someone, and calling them out and exposing their ignorance." You aren't calling anyone out except yourself for your own lack of understanding.

I think you fail to understand what the concept of a spectrum is. The reason autism is classified as a spectrum is not to separate from NT, that exists with any diagnosis, but to acknowledge that it smoothly blends into the general population and there is no hard line between on spectrum and off spectrum. It's like the green light spectrum, when does it stop being green and start being blue? Most visible light has some green light in it, even it's not on the green spectrum persay. Arbitrary it can be argued to be on spectrum as well because it's just an extension of the same continuum, there is no dividing line.


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