The goverments attitude towards the mentally ill stinks!

Post Reply New Topic

Homicide isn't the same as murder, and motor vehicular homicide, as long as the homicide wasn't intentional, can be used interchangeably with motor vehicular manslaughter.



Really? I see plenty of snarking against people; mostly the ones who you think aren't here to defend themselves, and then playing the victim.

Bicker, bicker bicker, blah blah blah.

I think it is important to know two truths:

1. The mentally ill at large are more often the victims of crime than the perpetrators.

2. Unfortunately, in some cases, mental illness can cause a person to murder, even if it not very common.

I will respond to this post again in a little bit....

You have to keep in mind that there is a big difference between committing a serious crime during a first episode of psychosis, when the person doesn't have any control over their illness and actions, and committing a serious crime due to deliberate noncompliance with medications. When somebody with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or schizoaffective disorder experiences psychosis for the first time, they have no way of treating their condition or being able to stop potentially criminal acts their delusions and/or hallucinations may cause. However, when a mentally ill patient chooses not to take their medication or consult with their psychiatrist about finding a different treatment, they are responsible for whatever crimes they may commit during a relapse.

One sad situation is how many chronically mentally ill people are homeless and can't afford meds. They have a psychotic episode, get taken to jail, are stabilized in jail and clearly aren't a danger to society, are released with two weeks' worth of meds, and get taken to jail again once their meds run out. The cycle just continues. In this case, the treatment of these type of mentally ill individuals needs to improve. Clearly, they are not able to be on their own, as they do not have the financial means to properly treat their condition. These are people who WANT to take their medication, but they simply cannot afford it. I believe that psych wards in jails should be much more lenient and keep many more individuals than they currently do. Usually, psychiatric patients in jails are kept there long enough for stabilization, and they are then thrust into the mainstream jail section or put back on the streets. It's basically just an extension of deinstitutionalization...

I do see your point...But I do not think having a severe mental illness should excuse someone who intentionally commits some terrible crime. However how the mental illness/disorder interfered has to be taken into account in my opinion. For instance if someone ends up killing someone in a psychotic state that should be taken into account and in my opinion they should not be charged with 'murder' as to me murder would be intentionally killing someone with a clear mind and clear intentions.

Even more annoying then the fact our legal system cannot keep up with modern psychology and sociology when it comes to things like this...would be the attitude that mentally ill people are generally out to cause trouble. That is not so much just the government more society in general but its horrible when people assume you want to kill people or cause harm to them just because you're a bit different, I got that a lot in highschool.

Chances even some of the ones who can afford the medication aren't not complying to just not comply they probably have a reason for not taking the medication. Maybe they are paranoid and think its poisoning them, maybe its having terrible side effects and the doctor wont listen to them and try and lower the dose or try another medication I can think of lots of reasons other then not being able to afford medication one might refuse to take it. This should be taken into consideration. I hate to think people with severe illnesses are bullied into taking medications 'or else' without any say in if they would maybe want a medication with less side effects, a lower dose ect. It's funny the government says 'don't do drugs' then it wants to say 'unless its prescription drugs being forced on you regardless of any negative effects they have.

I agree with you. That is why I mentioned talking with their doctor to find alternate forms of treatment. Nobody should have to suffer from horrible side effects. But if somebody who cannot tolerate current medication treatments for psychosis isn't able to keep out of trouble with the law unmedicated, prisons need to do a better job as far as housing permanent psychiatric inmates. There are lots of reasons for noncompliance, side effects being one of the biggest, but again, if a patient chooses to stop medication without consulting/warning their doctor, ultimately, it is their responsibility for whatever criminal acts they may commit.

Prison is not the place for someone who commits a crime while in a state of psychosis in my opinion, how are they supposed to deal with all the ruffians that prisons tend to be full of, you know the gangs and such like. The idea of some schizophrenic being stuck in a place like that bothers me because I think it would be cruel.

Also I do not think stopping a medication suddenly would be justification not to take there mental state into consideration, what if it was their illness that is partially why they stopped taking the medication. Also if the doctor wont listen and the medication is causing them problems the natural response would be to do it without consulting them. Even so how the mental state interferes with any criminal actions should be taken into consideration.

to claim someone should have a harsher penalty if they willingly stop taking medication without consulting their doctor...regardless of mental illness is not something I agree with and to me is like bullying someone to take drugs 'or else' which I do not agree with. The point should not be punishment and revenge it should be trying to freaking rehabilitate and help people function in a way that wont harm others. Focusing on 'well since you didn't take your medication you deserve a worse penalty psychotic or not.' is not the right approach in my opinion.

I did not say that all who commit crimes because they don't take their medication should receive a harsher penalty. And I also agree to keep the psychiatric patients away from the gangs. This is why I said that there should be a better psychiatric facility for mentally ill patients in prison.

Sadly, many mentally ill people receive better care in prison, because many are homeless and have no access to medications, therapists, etc. otherwise. But the way the jails tend to look at it is either put them in regular jail once stabilized or (if minor crimes were committed) put them back out on the streets once stabilized. Neither is the right choice. It breaks my heart how so many severely mentally ill individuals just have this cycle of in and out of jail, and the only time they get the help they need is when incarcerated. Another big issue of noncompliance is that, for severe cases, the person needs help and guidance to know when to go to doctor's appointments and when to take meds. But you have to remember that there are psychiatric patients who outright refuse treatment/help when they are stabilized and understand the consequences, and I feel these individuals have the responsibility to address medication issues with a professional and/or family member.

Yeah that is screwed up.......but prison and jail I don't feel is a good place for them either. Also I doubt very many people struggling with mental illness are refusing help and treatment 'just to be defiant' I would think that is more one of those rare occurances. Usually people do things because they get something out of it, what would someone that severely mentally ill get out of refusing treatment just to be defiant? does not sound very logical so I might even argue in those cases it is in fact the mental illness getting in the way.

If I felt those people represented a large chunk of the mentally ill I'd agree, but I feel its more a dangerous assumption to make about someone who is refusing treatment or medications.

I agree about putting them in a mental health facility, not prison. But that is why I mentioned in my first post on this thread how this whole mess is a result of deinstitutionalization. Only rare and/or very severe cases are put in mental health facilities for long periods of time in this day and age. Same with how few psychiatric inmates get to stay in the psych ward of a prison. Lots of psychiatric inmates beg to be admitted to the psych ward, because it is an escape from the misery of regular jail. But basically, unless you're ravingly psychotic or suicidal, you aren't deemed "severe enough." Pretty much the same goes for being admitted to a non-jail psychiatric hospital.

As for the defiance issue of noncompliance, this is actually quite common, particularly in bipolar disorder. In the case of bipolar disorder, many purposely stop meds because they DO get something out of it- the intense elation that characterizes hypomania. While hypomania is not a psychotic state, the line between the end of hypomania and the beginning of mania (which is often accompanied by psychosis) is very, very blurred, and enjoying the rush of hypomania quickly can spiral out of control without the patient realizing it. Also, since the psychoses tend to start in the late teen/early adult years, it can be a huge blow to somebody's ego to know that they are expected to "control" their emotions with a pill for the rest of their life. Some feel medication doesn't make THEM in control of their thoughts and actions, and this is how stopping meds can be a way of defiance. Another common reason to stop meds is the fact that the individual is an adult but still feels treated like a child by their parents post-illness. They grow annoyed with people asking them if they've been taking their meds or if any sign of emotion could be "an episode." Again, they don't feel that they're in control of their life, so to assert themselves, they stop meds.

All of the above reactions are natural and need to be taken seriously; they tend to occur right after diagnosis. But the point is that some individuals never accept their diagnosis and the fact that they need psychiatric help, be it meds or therapy or whatever. And these folks are the ones where I feel it's a sketchy area on how the justice system should handle them.

I guess I just find forced medications and therapy disturbing regardless of why the individual is refusing the treatment or medication. I don't think 'punishing' people for not taking medication is a very good approach. I personally am quite fine taking drugs to control symptoms, but I want to have a choice in the matter of what I am ingesting and the right to refuse drugs I don't want.

And again I have to feel sorry for the bi-polar people who actually don't like the side effects of 'lithium' which I here are pretty bad, are just doing it for some attention getting scheme...I mean I am sure it happens but again then I don't see punishment as a good way to try and correct that issue.

tl;dr autism isnt officialy classed as a mental illness freind, not our problem,
also the NT's are horrible leaders

The US prison system is not humane. I know a woman who lost her father to her schizophrenic brother. The fact that her brother is being denied proper care and put through hell in prison does nothing to quell the loss of her father. I guess the problem is mental health facilities are afraid to take people with a violent history as they don't have the same level of security as a prison. It seems like there should be something better but there isn't.

Well at the risk of having controversial views I do agree. Especially if this killing happened during a psychotic episode, what good does basically torturing some mentally ill person for a crime they probably would not have done in their right mind do? it does not bring the dead back or make things better in any rational way whatsoever.

There should certainly be something better....seriously f*** this society maybe you don't agree with that but everything I hear related to it brings me closer to that conclusion.