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DanielW
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15 Dec 2023, 11:14 am

Date anyone you want to - you shouldn't be relying on their income in any case. Its different if you are looking to marry or live together because I don't think you can build a long-term relationship with someone whos is habitually unemployed, but most dates don't lead to that anyway. Even then there are exceptions, I wouldn't shy away from dating or having a long-term relationship with someone if I knew upfront there was never going to be financial support from them and I could realistically afford that going forward.



Last edited by DanielW on 15 Dec 2023, 11:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

IsabellaLinton
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15 Dec 2023, 11:16 am

* Adds Firemonkey to my list of eligible bachelors, and agrees with Daniel.

(Are you gainfully employed, Daniel? If not, I'll add your name too. You seem to be a good catch.)


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DanielW
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15 Dec 2023, 11:20 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
* Adds Firemonkey to my list of eligible bachelors, and agrees with Daniel.

(Are you gainfully employed, Daniel? If not, I'll add your name too. You seem to be a good catch.)



I would say gainfully under-employed - but I can keep a roof over my head, and keep my dog happy. Good enough for me. :-)



IsabellaLinton
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15 Dec 2023, 11:22 am

Bravo! Do you have a partner? How has dating been for you?


Another consideration is that unemployed people aren't always penniless. Chances are they're on PIP, welfare, or social assistance of some sort, especially with a documented disability. They might end up earning as much as someone else who is just entering the job market or paying off significant debt in student loans, or good-old careless spending.

My brother always said, don't look at how much a person earns. Look at how much they owe.


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DanielW
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15 Dec 2023, 11:25 am

I have been in a long-term relationship, yes. I don't really like to "date" exactly. Most of my relationships have started with people I just happen to see on a regular basis from circumstance.

And yes, I've been in relationships with people who would probably never be making a lot of income. I would probably not involve myself with someone who could support themselves but choses not to, but thats a different story.



IsabellaLinton
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15 Dec 2023, 11:32 am

Yes, that's a different story.
That's more about character than ability.


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TwilightPrincess
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15 Dec 2023, 12:17 pm

It’s hard to tell with that stuff though. Very often people struggle in ways that aren’t obvious. Maybe they have depression, trauma, or other mental health issues. People might think some are lazy when they are actually struggling with an invisible disability.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 15 Dec 2023, 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

IsabellaLinton
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15 Dec 2023, 12:18 pm

True. ^


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blitzkrieg
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15 Dec 2023, 12:50 pm

I have seen "must have a job" as a dating requirement on women's dating profiles online (and no doubt this is unspoken criteria for a lot of others, too).

People generally ask if you have a job at social gatherings and often judge you because of that.

Many women want to date someone that improves their life financially and not be with someone who is often deemed a 'sad sack' or a 'loser'. I have talked to these women.

Maybe autistic people are particularly forgiving of male unemployment (autistic women in particular).

Honestly, I feel as though some people on this forum are truly oblivious to the thoughts of others, sometimes.



IsabellaLinton
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15 Dec 2023, 1:08 pm

I'm oblivious for my lived experience as a woman, and knowing women all my life in school, business, work, and my family, as well as noting what women have said here on WP?

We're all entitled an opinion without being oblivious.


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blitzkrieg
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15 Dec 2023, 1:12 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I'm oblivious for my lived experience as a woman, and knowing women all my life in school, business, work, and my family, as well as noting what women have said here on WP?

We're all entitled an opinion without being oblivious.

I mean, in my experience, even medical professionals sometimes try to get you into employment, it's like the entire world is against unemployment.

One of the few joys of employment, aside from money, is not being prodded to find work by everyone, including strangers.

And yet apparently employment doesn't matter to people, even when dating. :roll:



TwilightPrincess
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15 Dec 2023, 1:23 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
I don't know who the women of WP have met in their lives, but maybe their sheltered, autistic existence has made them avoid the majority of people in general, mostly who are NT's, who think this way.

Some males have made similar comments, so why are you just calling out “the women of WP”?

Stop with the gaslighting rhetoric. Our lived experience regarding what women want is at least as valid as yours.


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blitzkrieg
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15 Dec 2023, 1:26 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
I don't know who the women of WP have met in their lives, but maybe their sheltered, autistic existence has made them avoid the majority of people in general, mostly who are NT's, who think this way.

Some males have made similar comments, so why are you just calling out the women of WP?
blitzkrieg wrote:
Maybe you live in some strange parallel reality where you don't get asked if you have a job regularly by people when you are unemployed and receive almost exclusively, disapproving responses, even if they are subtle.

Stop with the gaslighting rhetoric. Our lived experience regarding what women want is at least as valid as yours.


I mentioned women in particular, because in this thread, you & Isabella are the main contributors and I have read more posts of yours than any other person, including any male.

There was no other reason than that.



FleaOfTheChill
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15 Dec 2023, 2:45 pm

Quote:
Maybe you live in some strange parallel reality where you don't get asked if you have a job regularly by people when you are unemployed and receive almost exclusively, disapproving responses, even if they are subtle.


I have gotten that, but never by a person who was looking at me as someone they might want to date. For me, it has always been some distant relative who lives out of town, or a person I went to school with who has come back home for some reason or another. People who can afford to leave my town, they leave. Those are people who knew me when I was young but haven't seen me in ages. As a child, I was considered smart and had 'tons of potential'. When I tell those people what I do now, employment wise, they get uncomfortable and go silent. Then I walk away feeling like crap for not only being a conversation killer, but a waste of potential that I could never live up to. It sucks. In dating I don't get that because I'm upfront with my stuff from the start. No one has to ask me. I tell. I do know that some people might find my stuff off-putting. Though I am more concerned about my psych issues being a potential problem than my lack of a job. That stuff is always more problematic for me with potential partners.

Quote:
Honestly, I feel as though some people on this forum are truly oblivious to the thoughts of others, sometimes.


I certainly am. My reality is the only one I know and as a result, my knee jerk reaction is to see things through my own lens/filter/whatever. Theory of mind has never been my strong suit. I have a hunch I'm not the only person on here like that though. It can be hard for any people to see eye to eye when they have distinctly different life experiences. Even those who do not deal with tom issues. As hard as it is for you to imagine a bunch of people not caring about jobs, it's just as hard for me to imagine a bunch who do. And when I try, my brain goes to snobby or superficial people, or gold diggers. Logically I know that not everyone who cares about a job is that type of person, but my point is, that's such a not reality to me that I don't think of decent human reasons first for why someone would care. Very different perspectives and lived realities. That's actually something I like about this place. I get hella perspective drops around here.



blitzkrieg
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15 Dec 2023, 2:56 pm

FleaOfTheChill wrote:
I have gotten that, but never by a person who was looking at me as someone they might want to date. For me, it has always been some distant relative who lives out of town, or a person I went to school with who has come back home for some reason or another. People who can afford to leave my town, they leave. Those are people who knew me when I was young but haven't seen me in ages. As a child, I was considered smart and had 'tons of potential'. When I tell those people what I do now, employment wise, they get uncomfortable and go silent. Then I walk away feeling like crap for not only being a conversation killer, but a waste of potential that I could never live up to. It sucks. In dating I don't get that because I'm upfront with my stuff from the start. No one has to ask me. I tell. I do know that some people might find my stuff off-putting. Though I am more concerned about my psych issues being a potential problem than my lack of a job. That stuff is always more problematic for me with potential partners


You seem to have some insight and experience as to how people can be judgmental in regards to a person being unemployed, though I appreciate that you may not have had the experience in terms of dating.

blitzkrieg wrote:
Honestly, I feel as though some people on this forum are truly oblivious to the thoughts of others, sometimes.


FleaOfTheChill wrote:
I certainly am. My reality is the only one I know and as a result, my knee jerk reaction is to see things through my own lens/filter/whatever. Theory of mind has never been my strong suit. I have a hunch I'm not the only person on here like that though. It can be hard for any people to see eye to eye when they have distinctly different life experiences. Even those who do not deal with tom issues. As hard as it is for you to imagine a bunch of people not caring about jobs, it's just as hard for me to imagine a bunch who do. And when I try, my brain goes to snobby or superficial people, or gold diggers. Logically I know that not everyone who cares about a job is that type of person, but my point is, that's such a not reality to me that I don't think of decent human reasons first for why someone would care. Very different perspectives and lived realities. That's actually something I like about this place. I get hella perspective drops around here.


The thing is, in regards to unemployment having a stigma surrounding it - it's undeniable. In the UK for example, the DWP who administer benefits actually sanction people on certain benefits and temporarily take people's money away for not looking for jobs whilst unemployed.

The stigma of unemployment is institutional as well as cultural.

I am confident that in a capitalist society, which most people have some experience of - unemployment is genuinely looked down upon. I'm not sure how a person could think otherwise.



Last edited by blitzkrieg on 15 Dec 2023, 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

IsabellaLinton
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15 Dec 2023, 2:57 pm

As a matter of fact yes, I've faced a lot of scrutiny of that sort regarding my LTD / non-working status.

That scrutiny is from nosy neighbours, people who judge me by first sight or know that I used to work, my ex-husband who attacked me in court for years saying I was being lazy and expecting him to support me (I never asked for alimony), random people like hairdressers, the postman, tradespeople who come to the house, relatives in other countries, total strangers on the phone (customer service etc)., some of my doctors who don't have my full history, my dentist, and friends of the family. I even hear it from my insurance people who keep asking for updates and proof that I'm as disabled as I claim to be. When I first joined WP there was a small group of people who kept questioning how I could possibly be autistic, let alone L2, if I own a house and raised kids. They think I seem smart and accomplished so I must be lying, or exaggerating my struggles, etc.

I hear it all the time. It's actually nice to be able to say I'm on disability because of my stroke because people can accept that more than if I say I'm autistic. It was even better when I needed a walker to ambulate because then I looked the part.

Not only do people assume I'm working, but they inquire about what I do for a living as if it's a matter of fact. Women get this pressure just as much as men. I'm sure if I were younger and had young children I'd still hear the same BS. When I had babies it was NOT cool or OK to be a stay-home mother. I even knew women married to very wealthy men (doctors, lawyers) who felt pressured to go back to work even if they didn't need the money.

People default to thinking we're all bourgeois automatons but that doesn't mean we are. I think for the most part, a lot of the questions are just preprogrammed small talk and the people who ask don't really GAS anyway. Most people would rather talk about themselves, regardless of what they ask.


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