This "nice guys vs jerks" nonsense has to stop.

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Firstly, let me quote Hector who hit the nail on the head:

Thus, the "nice guys" problem in a nutshell. If people would just STOP labelling the problem; "nice guys not getting girls" and start labelling it; "AS guys not getting girls" we might actually be getting somewhere to discussing the REAL problem at hand, and maybe thinking about potential solutions.

Although there's some very nice guys on this forum (sorry guys) having AS does not automatically mean that you are a "nice guy" and all other guys who get girls are "jerks". This becomes obsessive, and starts making the AS guys who believe this speak like jerks and narcissists themselves as they put down other people (both women and men). This "nice guys verses jerks" belief system is false and it needs to go, because it is actively making the problem worse and not solving it.

I'm not claiming to believe that jerks don't exist. They do. Both in this forum and in the outside world.

I'm prepared to be flamed for this, but it needed to be said. It needed to be said because AS guys not getting girls is a REAL problem and it needs to be called like it is, and all this pussy-footing around, sexism (which is rampant on this forum), and blaming the problem on other people who really have nothing to do with it.

It's a real problem, and we need to find solutions, but first the problem needs to be stated plainly.

I wanted to add that I state this because I care.

Why am I a regular on this forum? Because this whole problem of AS guys not getting girls upsets me, and I find myself thinking about it when I'm off the computer as well as on. Nobody should be living a life of loneliness because of something like mis-communication that should be so simply solved. I find myself getting fired up because I want this problem solved as much as anyone here.

I disagree, I don't think it's warrently to label it with anything because i think that is just as bad no matter which label you use. When people say only jerks get the girls, they seem to be suggesting the rest of the world should change to fit around them. When people say AS guys do not get the girls, they seem to be suggesting that they should change for the rest of the world.

I find both idea's equally rediculous, people will never find someone who makes them happy with either belief. If you wish to find someone, then you need to be yourself, stop trying so hard to fit in. At the same time, you must be prepared to take set-backs, you must be prepared to get yourself out there! You need to leave your house.

In general the jerk does get the girl, most guys are jerks and most girls are shallow. The reason i do not get a girl has nothing to do with either fact though, the reason i do not have a girl has more to do with the fact i do not leave my house, i do not meet new people, and the fact i do not talk to people. Autism might have shaped my current behaviours, but i should not and can not blame my autism for this. I need to drag myself out of the house, autism or not, and speak to people!! !

Good point. You're right about getting out of the house - that's a good step, but I'm not sure it has worked for everyone here. The problem is, it doesn't matter how much you step out of the house if you have the wrong attitude, because the "nice guys vs. jerks" attitude seems to breed resentment and hatred.

Yes, i think i was a little hasty in my first post saying that i disagree with you. I do agree that thinking "I can't get a girlfriend because they like jerks" is wrong, but i think any label is equally as wrong.

I think my autism has helped shape my problems along with how i've been treated by the vast majority of people. But i don't blame those people or my autism, i can only blame myself. Nobody is going to give me a girlfriend (and no, i wouldn't want them to either!), but me getting a girlfriend is 100% dependant on my actions.

I don't think i should have to change who i am, i don't think i should have to fit in to get a girlfriend. I know that if i don't attempt to fit in, then many people aren't going to like me... but one can only be happy if they are true to themselves. Even with all my negative traits and quirks, if i got myself out into the world i would meet someone who appreciated me for being me. Who cares what the majority of the world thinks?

I can understand how people on this forum have been hit by setback after setback, from being treated like crap continously. But complaining about the rest of the world isn't going to get you a partner in life, trying to fit in won't help you find anyone either, it'll just make you look fake and untrustworthy. Throw yourself into the world, stay true to yourself and you'll meet someone eventually.

I used to make the "jerk" generalization all the time...

Then about half a year ago, pretty much all of the nerd friends that I hung out with, chosen for the precisely the fact that they were not categorized as "jerks" (and were single), ended up in relationships within the span of a month from each other... That's when I came to the realization that maybe it's just me... I guess I'm just a failure at life and nothing can change that...

Either way, I don't bear any more resentment for anyone in a relationship anymore... and yet here I am, still all alone... I don't think having this attitude of resentment you mention is the only thing that is holding people back... it's just a way to rationalize that some people just don't deserve love... those that get the short deal in life can just say "oh well he's just a jerk" to make sense of it all...

Yes, I don't think that it is the only thing holding people back - but it is one of the things, and even one less can make a difference. You're right in that it helps people to feel better and make sense of it all, perhaps I am being a bit harsh trying to destroy the illusion, I can be harsh sometimes, but at the same time the illusion make make a person feel better, but at the same time it is actually reducing their chances. I would have thought that people would prefer to have increased chances at the cost of comfortable illusions.

It also is particularly worrying because the attitude seems to breed sexism and all kinds of unpleasant things like that (because it can get turned around and the guy can start blaming girls as well as jerks for the problem), which is not only reducing chances of a relationship but reducing chances of friendships too (with both sexes).

It might also be the innate human response to personal problems: try to blame them on someone else... I, for one, was able to be a lot more at peace once I finally accepted that I am pretty much a failure at life, and after that I (rather ironically) found out that making friends became a lot easier...

It's not just the AS guys who are bitter about jerks. The NT ones hate them too, as do the NT girls who are fed up with unwittingly dating them. I think the problem runs deeper than using the 'nice guys/jerks' argument as an escape route from looking at your own confidence issues. For one thing, the more jerks a girl dates the less likely she is to trust men in future, which in turn makes it harder for a decent man to find her and date her. Of course if more men showed the characteristics girls liked then the chances of picking a jerk would be reduced, but some people don't have those characteristics built in to them. At that point do you learn the tricks (e.g. arrogance and bravado) and become something you're not just to bag the girl, or do you stay true to yourself and put up with the fact you are single? If a girl thinks you're being fake they won't date you, but if you can't show what they'd like they won't date you either. It can easily become a catch-22.

Before you flame me, I'm not actually bitter about jerks although obviously I wish there were fewer of them. I'm just trying to show an alternative viewpoint for the people who use the argument as a cop-out. That said, I agree in general that people need to look at what they can do to improve their own standing in the world.

aww


I still stand with the evolutionary theory.

I agree with CrinklyCrustacean.

And yes, Hector is right too.

That's a very valid point. I believe in inappropriate behavior, but the system of labeling is just counter productive. Sure it helps blow off some steam (I wouldn't know if I hadn't done it myself for years), but I can't say that labelling people with your emotions does anything useful.

I see what you mean, and I do agree on this issue. I am definitely against jerks, but I feel that there aren't as many out there as people make it seem, and blaming problems on jerks might work at first (and that's not a problem) - but the real issue is that it can lead to other, worse problems such as sexism, extreme bitterness, and hatred (as I'm sure all of us have seen from time to time on this forum). Sexism is a real problem on this forum, and I'm not saying this just because I'm a woman. I also say this because what people say and think on the net is likely to reflect what they say and think in real life - and sexism is really going to hurt ones chances of getting into a relationship.

At any rate - I would never flame someone because it's against everything I believe in (just so you know) . If someone flames me, I just try to diffuse the anger with understanding. And I see no reason why I would want to flame you at all - that was a very well thought out, insightful post - exactly the sort of response I was hoping for.

Don't understand me wrong, sexism is truly a problem in men and not just in this forum but it was never a factor that affects one's chance in relationships, unless of course if the man is screaming out lout "I hate women" like some users do here then sure no woman would like him. The worst chauvinistic men I know are very successful in getting relationships, some of them are in long term relationships , I know one who is married and I know many who get so many short-term relationships. They're chauvinistic to the extent that they see every attractive girl as ... well I think you got the picture. I am not saying that their chauvinism is what made them attractive since obviously other traits made them so but it's something that I always noticed.

That's might be an interesting thread by itself.

Just to comment on the chauvinists having girl-friends. I think this has to do with them having a low opinion of women, so obviously they don't have any anxiety issues when talking to women. They come across as level-headed, confidence, etc...

Ironically if you have a high opinion of women, you are bound to be more anxious, which would count against your chances.

^ I don't think it's the case, since many here have low opinion about women here yet they're failures in relationships. What I was pointing to that chauvinism was never a factor that makes men fail in getting dates.

Yeah, my comments just then we about NT's in general. I didn't mean to present it as the only factor when it comes to anxiety, having a low opinion of someone doesn't mean you can't have anxiety for other reasons. A male chauvinist aspie is also still an aspie, they have plenty of other things counting against them

It's just the amount of times i've read people state they are good with people they are not interested, but completely fail with people they do like! meh...