Don't Become This Guy

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Who said anything about a higher rate? Logical fallacy. It could well fluctuate throughout history. How reliable are figures like that? Do you expect to get acurate figure from PRC or Russia, etc? It is pure politics.

Being a social outcast is part of nature not just in humans, watch a nature program. Whether it be lions, meerkats or chimps there are outcasts in many animals.

It is society is merely a reflection of our nature. Civilisation is about having to live in higher numbers, due to necessity. We are very confused because we can’t always have clearly defined groups, instead you have many groups the overlap heavily and quite a complicated hierarchy with various forms of power.

I don't think you can say that for sure and it is not clear exactly how tormented he was in university. He was bullied in high school. If anything it sounds like he was more isolated, and severely paranoid. One of the side effects of not being around people is you do not make very accurate observations. He was mute and had bad social anxiety. I had social anxiety too and was part of an SA forum. It is common behaviour to tar everyone with the same brush, and also carry the threat around with you, even if it is now an illusion.

*VERY* true. I think this is all the more reason why people need to catch themselves when they're being ridden and controlled, address their own dignity, life-long singles and whatever certain people like to call it - incel? When you see the world as a child, before sexuality comes into play, you have a sense of self and of society that is divorced from natural law and survival of the fittest most often, looking at ourselves as something transcendent to this is something we have to do - not deny the reality that this is a prime aspect of our nature, but really act as though we are spiritual beings and have value regardless of how natural law would like to treat us. To have a society more humane in the future it would take those who are in these positions doing what they can to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, live productive lives, be hardened optimists about themselves and the good that they can perform in their own lives and for society - hopefully that can spread.

The 'I am a deformed ret*d loser I hate life I need to die' type of thing is terribly sad, frankly its quite often young adults or even adults speaking the vocabulary of a childhood tantrum; NT adults can hit this point too if they're undermined badly enough but regardless its something that needs to be fought. Regardless of who it is, that dynamic asserting itself is much more of a tragedy than long-term singlehood. Dignity is what makes life worth living, by 20 I figured that even if I had nothing and was scorned till the day I died by women - I had 60 years ahead of me and they could either be made as comfortable as I could make them (by doing everything I could to achieve, grow, become whoever I wanted to be, work my way out of the societally-given and self-enforced stigma of my reality) or alternately it could be 60 years of hell (by giving in).

Sorry if this was real wordy, but I think people first need to see what you said - exactly as you said it - its mechanical, its purely brass tacks, and for as profound as its effects can be on people (ie. natural law) its also completely impersonal. When people can realize that this has been going on for all of time and only seems super-relevant now because its them and their own lives, they're taking one giant leap forward in learning how to repeal societies stigma when they look inward upon themselves.

One thing is for sure: he was tormented enough to throw his own life away.

Cho said himself, "I die, like Jesus Christ, as an inspiration to the weak and to the defenseless people." By this he could have meant, among other things, that he was defending them from future attacks by punishing their attackers.



I want to remark that paranoia and delusion are not the same. To confuse the two is prejudiced thinking. Paranoia, to some degree, might even be healthy, as you place more emphasis on escaping domination.



If I recall, he had selective mutism.



These threats are not illusions. That weeny little dork you make fun of could come to school and pop your teeth in if you take bullying too far, and if he is so anguished that he no longer sees the point in living. If you want him to treat you with respect, why not treat him with respect?

In his online diary, much of the torment he writes about is sexual frustration because the women he desired did not desire him back nor would they have a sexual relationship with him. In your post about how other people are responsible for his torment, you are coming perilously close to implying that women OWE men a sexual relationship if those men desire them and to not comply is to earn the "punishment" that follows from the man's sexual frustration.I really, really hope you aren't implying that.

Everyone is bullied. Everyone has relationship problems. Everyone wonder's if life is worth it. No one on this plannet thinks life is fair. If you can't take it any more, then take yourself out, but not other people. Most humans feel suicidal at some point in thier life. And the thought of leaving this world in a blaze of glory is simply justifying the courage to kill yourself. These active shooter cases are people who HAVE to kill others first, because that forces them to kill themselves. They are weak minded and need to kill others to get enough courage to kill themselves. And lets face it, Sodini realized what most people do in thier 40s without a wife or kids. That they were going to die eventualy. And he may have realized, logicaly, that there was no point in living. I get it.

If you are in this logic circle, it's failed logic. You don't get it, that's why your alone. You can't find a group of people to "take out" and make your life meaningfull. Your the screw up. They are not. It's not white people, Gay People, pretty people, black people, jews, rich people, sinners, prostitutes, amish school girls, your X wife, or any person or group of people that is the problem.

You and You alone are the cause of your own misery. Your own stuborness and inability to percieve is the problem. If you don't have the balls to off yourself, don't kill someone else just to work up the courage to kill yourself.

And don't say "they will just make more humans." If that's your attitude, erase yourself SOLO. Becuase YOUR AN IDIOT IF YOU THINK YOU NEED TO TAKE SOMEONE WITH YOU.

I have been in an active shooter incident, twice. I have unfortunatly watched people die first hand during these. My boss was killed in one of these, and he had 8 kids. He was perfectly normal and devoted to raising well adjusted productive and happy children. He never hurt anyone. He was a strong and moral man as best as anyone could tell. He died because some idiot went off and shot a bunch of us up in Towel staduim, fort bragg 1996

http://edition.cnn.com/US/9510/sniper/am/index.html

Turns out, the guy was probably an Auspie. He had a hard time getting along, and he definatly had a ligit beef with his chain of command. But he didn't shoot a single person that was on his sh*t list. He shot a bunch of innocent people.

More recently, another guy went on a rampage next door to my CHU here in Iraq.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/05/a ... 3_051209w/

If this is in your head, get it out. Don't die a screw up. Your not going to change anything except to prove your an idiot.

I'm not implying that. Don't worry.

Often, people make the mistake of assuming that an event such as a suicidal shooting has only one cause. In reality, there are many contributing factors that condition the motives for such shootings, two of them in Cho's case being unreciprocated romantic interest and fierce bullying. Only when all these things come together does a suicidal person make a decision to shoot.

To remove this condition and prevent a shooting, it suffices to remove only a few of the contributing factors. In Cho's case, the solution could have been:

1. More sympathy and attention from female students, or
2. More respect from the people who bullied him, or
3. Less sadism in our culture toward the lower classes.

There are obviously many possibilities I'm leaving out, but the point is that you can't reduce shootings to a single cause.

Last edited by MikeH106 on 09 Aug 2009, 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

I don't think it's out of the question for a young 20-something woman to be attracted to a late 40's man if he projects a confident stable image. My guess is these women intuitively picked up on his obsessive nature and shied away from him. It's ironic I know for me to be an obsessive and yet the idea of anyone being obsessed with me immediately sends me into a panic. I just try not to advertise my intense focus on anyone-I think I may even over correct in the opposite direction. Anyway, when I was bartending I used to listen to 2 regulars complaining about women, saying they were users and dishonest etc. etc.-finally I told them that because that's what they believed about all women they only approached women that fit that description and so they were constantly reinforcing their perceptions. As for myself, I realized I was guilty of the same thing. I've spent a lot of time complaining about men who won't commit and eventually realized I was always falling for the same kind of guy, even if I was consciously trying not to. The real kicker was when I realized that I too had a major fear of commitment.

Most serial killers had strong religious upbringing and this one is not an exception. Religion makes them more insane rather than help them because it doesn't explain humans' behavior , it doesn't explain to them why life is not fair and it doesn't explain to them why some people are treated better than others.

Religion tries to create an illusive world for the believer, a happy religious person will be very happy and thankful to his 'god/s' while an unhappy religious person will become so bitter and angry because he can't understand why god chose him to be born like this or why he made him to live in some bad circumstances while many others had better lives.

Referring to the Matrix movie:
-A happy believer is the one who's happy and unaware of the illusion that the Matrix created it for him
-An unhappy believer will go insane because he knows something is wrong because he can't knows what is it so he becomes insane little by little, that would be Neo before finding out the truth.
-An atheist who understand evolution very well, will become a fully Neo: he obtains the power of decoding the world around him.

A person who can decode the human behaviors, he/she starts to understand why men behave like this and why women behave like that (ie.understanding the laws of nature, the mechanism of nature selection ...), he/she starts to understand why humans treat each others badly sometimes ....and ultimately he/she starts to understand why life is unfair.

While Neo becomes more cynical about the purposeless of life and about the world , this person becomes more understanding toward other humans, because he/she starts to realize that it's not their fault , nor it his/her fault, it's no one's fault. Humans have evolved this way. His/her mind becomes totally sane.

If this man achieved the Neo stage , maybe he would be able to understand why women rejected him so much in his past? maybe that would decrease his grudge against women and would makes realize what's the problem. Be he couldn't , because he believed in Jesus and couldn't understand why that fair Jesus made his sexual life so unfair, he can't admit that he has anger toward Jesus, so he blew his anger elsewhere.


I know , I know Miss Janissy, that guy was good-looking , athletic and had a good job , but that was when he was around 40.

Was he always like this during his 20s? I highly doubt that. It's obvious that what made him insane is not being able to understand why he was so much loser with women during his 20s, it's his past shortcomings that made him insane.

How to not become this guy: become a Neo.

Last edited by LePetitPrince on 09 Aug 2009, 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

I was much HAPPIER when I was devoutly religious and full of faith. It gave me hope. I wish I could go back to that. I keep trying And I have been very happy when I was out of a relationship. It's peacefull to be alone.

It's not any one think that makes a person snap. The world is full of devout religious people that are happy and non-violent.

People IN RELATIONSHIPS SNAP ALL THE TIME-THEY JUST SNAP ON THIER FAMILY-EX LOVERS.

It only makes the news when the loners do it to a group of people. If some chick slept with this guy and left him, or married him and had kids, then left him, he could have just as easaly snapped and killed them. Most guys I know have thought of murdering thier X-wives.

When I was 39/40 I had women as young as 18 and as old as 55 interested in me. But I never felt ENTITLED to a college co-ed.

Upthread somebody wrote about how that sense of entitlement was a part of the problem. (You,? billsmithglendale? I'm too lazy to re-read the thread.) That does seem to be a piece of it, along with the isolation and the rage.

I have always wondered about why people would take out utter strangers. You did a good analysis of that- it's a precondition for suicide because they know they won't have the nerve to do it unless they are backed into a corner. And this backs them into a corner. The less horrible version of that (less horrible only because innocents don't die) is suicide-by-cop which I assume you're familiar with. I was wondering what the difference is between suicide-by-cop and these shootouts. Some people don't really want to kill anybody else. So they set up a hostage situation where they threaten to kill others and then are killed by police before they can carry out that threat. Suicide-by-cop people take hostages that they probably won't kill but "probably" isn't good enough and the police pretty much have to shoot them. Guys like this don't take hostages. They spray bullets long before the cops have even been called.

So what's the difference? Maybe it's entitlement. Maybe guys like this, unlike suicide-by-cop guys, truly believe they are entitled to certain things from other people which they are not, and then they feel justified in punishing those who didn't "pay up" what the entitled guy thinks he is owed. This guy wasn't owed a relationship from women, sexual or otherwise. Although being friendly and warm and welcoming to others is definately the polite thing to do and it makes life better for everyone, it is manners and niceness, not an actual entitelment. It would certianly be a good thing if lots of women smiled at him or chatted with him or went on dates with him. But it isn't actually any woman's responsibility to do those things because although they are all nice, he isn't entitled to them. I am very much in favor of anti-harrassment laws to prevent bullying in the workplace and elsewhere. Child abuse laws to try to stop it at home. Anti-bullying school codes to stop it at school. (I wrote "try" for home because that's the hardest place to control legally because it's private and generally unknowable.) But I don't want to get anywhere near the idea that "society" is responsible for this because women didn't befriend him or chat him up. Nobody, women or men, OWES anybody else a friendly relationship. These relationshuips make life better for all, but they are not entitlement that earns the death penalty if they aren't made good on.

I certainly didn't.

I've written all about sexual selection (see my essay, Darwinism and Sexual Selection) and how certain signals including physical appearance determine how 'attractive' a person is perceived to be. I grant that some people are perceived as less attractive, but I don't think we should turn our species into a game of cruelty against them.

That was me:



It could be that he had a love-hate relationship with certain people, perhaps in the workplace... He hated women that wouldn't "put out" (which he believed he deserved), but also loved them as he was attracted to them at the same time... Since the love component made him unwilling to kill any of those he knew, he settled to kill those he didn't (aka strangers)...

Keep in mind that this is just speculation and the only way to learn his actual motives would be to ask him... but of course he's dead, so that isn't going to happen either...

A game of cruelty against the less attractive? I went back to his online diary. He recounts bullying from his brother. Brothers frequently bully each other. This doesn't make it ok but it is actually sibling rivalry and has nothing to do with cruelty agains the less attractive. He also recounts how is mother was domineering. I think that added to his pathology (I think Freud was right about some things).

Other than that it is post after post after post of how pretty girls won't pay any attention to him. Is this what you mean by "cruelty"? Do you think pretty young girls (or any women, really) owed him attention and it was cruel of them to deny it?

There are men considerably worse looking than him who are in relationships, married, or who just have pretty girls chit-chat with them even if it never goes that much farther. These men didn't get the attention because they were owed it. They got it because they BEHAVED in a way that made women feel positively towards them. Sure, it's patently unfair that some people are just physically better looking than others through sheer DNA luck. You can help redress that imbalance by going out right now and hittting on the ugliest woman you can find and really meaning it and following through with the relationship she craves. Can't bring yourself to do it? Then don't expect women to either and imply they are cruel if they don't.

Hmm. Ok, I'll buy that.

that's because you were of the first category:



Those are the happiest people on earth while all their needs are satisfied , that's why the non-poor married fundie/religious people are usually the happiest. While the single or poor fundie/religious people are the most bitter. (compare Ragtime to ToadofSteel for example! Ragtime was very bitter before getting married tho)

But when uncontrollable things make them unsatisfied constantly , then they become the most unhappy people because their 'god is not being fair with them'.