The mistake in infantising your significant other.
14 Sep 2009, 9:50 am
G'day forum folks,
G'day Donkey Buster,
I am very interested in what you said in your last post re me thinking of or treating my husband like a child. We were talking about this in respect to a ceratin issue that cropped up recently that I had then gone on to post about. (If anyone is just joining the topic and has not read the refered to post it is in this same 'Love and Dating' section under the topic 'Is this appropriate')
DB(Please correct me if I am wrong) but I think you where saying that you sensed that I had made a habbit out of..... was it actually thinking and talking of my husband as a child or actually treating him like one? And the fact that this habbit of mine may infact be undermining our whole relationship and thus family.
I would like to understand your perspective or anyone that would like to comment on this issue, a little better. I usually can see too many sides in any issue which is why I sometimes have trouble deciphering which one is my own.LOL I know most people say it does not matter who the comment comes from but I am not that niave. So can I ask, are you male or female. Also have you been in a long term monogomus relationship with a male/ male ASDian before. Did you have dependant children? Do you feel you have also been guilty of this or have you had this attitude visited upon you in a relationship?
On my part please don't think this is either a Male or an 'extreme Male' ie male ASDian bashing campaign because I am only looking for solutions here, not to have a go at any group in particular. This is only one man I am talking about and he may or may not be representitive of Males or ASDian Males. The topic that I first posted about actually had more to do with my ? ASDian female judgement on an issue than anything else.
Anyway DB my interest lays quite basically in the question of what you would suggest I do about my husbands 'innability' or 'lack of skill' in the areas I have mentioned? As far as relieving myself of any attitude I might have, I cannot see how I can even consider this as this scenario is something that has happened enough times for me to be fed up to the back teeth with it. If infact if I gave my husband the benefit of the doubt with this (ie let him get in and out of this and similar situations himself, like I would your average adult. Without ever uttering a word or even looking at him side ways) which I feel like I should be able to and would be more than happy to do, I could imagen my life and that of my children being in utter chaos the vast majority of time. Here's the skinny........ you cannot do this with ASDian kids and expect to walk away sane. I'm afraid at best his actions seem to me to be 'forsite poor'' at worst immature and selfish on so many levels. It is not as if I could use the 'throw them in the deep end' scenario with these issues because as I have explained there are very vunerable children involved. If I was in this relationship with him with no children it would be a different story all together as I would not be risking so much, that I don't 'own' to risk in the first place.
I should also explain that this responsible-dependant relationship of our works both ways. My husband takes responsibility for certain things that I am unable to be responsible for too. However these types of problems do not happen in other areas. After 17 years together this is the one that remains a problem.
Cheers
14 Sep 2009, 6:06 pm
We came from here...
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt107143.html
Well, obviously I can't tell how you treat your husband. But thinking of an adult as childish has (in my experience) a tendency to result in some pretty disasterous dynamics. How we think about another conditions how we speak and act towards them. I can't tell if you have a habit of thinking of your husband in this way... my intent was to draw your attention to the language and possible attitude it reflected because such an attitude can be so destructive to an equitable relationship.
I'm a 51 YO Dx'd Aspie lesbian in a long term relationship of 9 years, no kids, and many disasterous relationships in the past. I was the eldest of 4, my brother being a Kanner's autist. And OOOOh yes, I have been there, done this, and struggle with it daily. In my case, it results in a particular tone of voice that can really work against me in a dialogue with my partner.
[quote="saywhatyamean"]On my part please don't think this is either a Male or an 'extreme Male' ie male ASDian bashing campaign because I am only looking for solutions here, not to have a go at any group in particular. This is only one man I am talking about and he may or may not be representitive of Males or ASDian Males. The topic that I first posted about actually had more to do with my ? ASDian female judgement on an issue than anything else.[quote]
Actually, the attitude has little to do with your husband. It's about your view, not his problem. And it's quite common, just parades under different names... in men the same attitude might be called patronizing. It actually has little to do with AS or NT, it's just something that many capable people fall into.
I think mothers may be prone to it because they, by necessity, do it all day... they are the moms, those are the kids, kids need to be told what to do, nagged to get them to do it, and reprimanded and disciplined when they don't. So when dad comes home, he walks right into it.
[quote="saywhatyamean wrote:
This is a separate question, don't you agree? To keep things a little simpler on this thread, would it be OK with you if we didn't get into that? And just stuck with how to re-frame the attitude about the problem?
I'm not saying his behavior isn't a big problem or that it doesn't need to be addressed. But how you think of the problem can lead to greater or lesser success in changing it. I'm suggesting you re-frame your attitude from "parental -> child" to "adult <-> adult".
Think of it like this... do you like being treated like a child? Do you respond well to someone who "talks down" to you? I sure don't... I have a hard time even listening to them. I tend to go into my "rebellious teen" mode and any positive outcome is unlikely.
Whereas, if someone approaches me as an adult, using a neutral tone of voice and states the problem behavior in a calm, non-judgemental fashion, letting me know what the impact of my behavior is on them, then they get a much different, more open response.
For example... the difference between...
"When you drag your lazy ass in here late for supper night after night..."
as opposed to...
"When you do not call me to let me know you will be late for supper..."
So holding the view that the problematic behavior or your husband is childish is likely to "leak" out in subtle and not so subtle ways, undermining you, your husband, and the overall relationship.
Does he refer to/treat your deficits as childish or immature?
Is this clearer? It's not that the problems don't exist... we all have difficulties with various things in life. What I am trying to get at is the attitude with which we approach someone else's behavior that is causing us trouble.
14 Sep 2009, 8:54 pm
Thanks Donkey Buster,
Thanks also for putting that link in. I would not have been able to do that myself(one of my deficits in functioning, I have many in the executive functioning range) I suppose it does not help that I have not been in the work force for over 12 years. So therefore have not been forced to learn how to do these kinds of things(putting in links and stuff like it). I also have a problem with numbers, string any more than about 3 together and I cannot remember them, cannot recall pin numbers, phone numbers, even our own, which we have now had for over 18 months, dates, times................annoying stuff like that. (Was however able to get through experiemental statistics at Uni..... not sure how that all works) And yes this type of stuff infuriates and frustrates my husband no end.
The attitude you are talking about comes through in him too. We use alot of humor and it goes both ways. I'm OK with all of it though because despite the fact that I am quite often unable/unlikely to deal with these things on my own and it frustrates the hell out of me too. I have enough of a self esteem and above average skills in other areas that these defecits do not determine how I think about myself on the whole. When issues to do with my executive functioning or socialising come up my husband just loves to say it's lucky I am with him because I would be hopeless on my own. Of course he never gets away with it because I remind him of how I was single for 26 years (more that I can say for him, straight from his mother to his first wife) and how much I accomplished totally on my own, compared to him. That I coped on my own before and there is no reason I could'nt do it again.... Not like him. All that sort of banter goes on all the time, but usually it is done in good humor. When something is serious I think the communication is OK, but will take more notice from now on.
I also think I understand what you are getting at with 'the attitude' coming through without me realising. Also to be able to reframe any given problem helps. I will be more mindful of this in my dealings with specific problems that come up from now on.
Thanks so much for your time and effort DB.
Cheers
PS I know who Leo Kanner was but what is Kanners Autism........
14 Sep 2009, 10:19 pm
The attitude you are talking about comes through in him too. We use alot of humor and it goes both ways. I'm OK with all of it though because despite the fact that I am quite often unable/unlikely to deal with these things on my own and it frustrates the hell out of me too. I have enough of a self esteem and above average skills in other areas that these defecits do not determine how I think about myself on the whole. When issues to do with my executive functioning or socialising come up my husband just loves to say it's lucky I am with him because I would be hopeless on my own. Of course he never gets away with it because I remind him of how I was single for 26 years (more that I can say for him, straight from his mother to his first wife) and how much I accomplished totally on my own, compared to him. That I coped on my own before and there is no reason I could'nt do it again.... Not like him. All that sort of banter goes on all the time, but usually it is done in good humor. When something is serious I think the communication is OK, but will take more notice from now on.
I also think I understand what you are getting at with 'the attitude' coming through without me realising. Also to be able to reframe any given problem helps. I will be more mindful of this in my dealings with specific problems that come up from now on.
Oh yeah, joshing and light banter are great. We do that a lot, too. It's when I'm grumpy, tired and/or fed-up that I get the tone. Or sometimes when I'm "on task" and not paying attention.
I've got a book about interpersonal communication that I really like because it's pretty staightforward and has nice clear examples... "People Skills: How to Assert Yourself, Listen to Others, and Resolve Conflicts" by Robert Bolton. I don't know of anyone who wouldn't benefit from tuning up their skills... I especially like the chapter on 3-part assertions... saying what you have to say in a way most likely to bring you the results you want.
My brother is non-verbal, stims all day, and is basically unable to care for himself. He's a sweet man, but hard to get in touch with (except at meal times). He needs full-time supervision.
15 Sep 2009, 7:20 am
Hey Donkey Buster,
You will think this is hilarious considering what we have been talking about(and I didn't say anything before because I almost never admit to this) but I actually have a Psychology/Social Welfare degree. Social psychology used to be one of my (I hate the sound of) "special interests" (but this way you will know what I mean). I admit the degree is eons old by now, I have not worked in 12 years to keep up, but I am actually supposed to know all this stuff. Well I do in theory but to put it into practice in my own life is of course another thing. LOL
Cheers
PS I will look the book up.
15 Sep 2009, 11:58 am
You will think this is hilarious considering what we have been talking about(and I didn't say anything before because I almost never admit to this) but I actually have a Psychology/Social Welfare degree. Social psychology used to be one of my (I hate the sound of) "special interests" (but this way you will know what I mean). I admit the degree is eons old by now, I have not worked in 12 years to keep up, but I am actually supposed to know all this stuff. Well I do in theory but to put it into practice in my own life is of course another thing. LOL
Cheers
PS I will look the book up.
You're right! About everything... it's funny, it's a lot easier in theory, and "special interest" is a bit of an odd way to describe what we dive into, but it beats the bejeezuz out of "obsession"... how do you refer to it? I kinda like "passion"... maybe vocation or avocation extremis? Seems more appropriate if you look at the root Latin... 
Some of what I've been talking about is just basic Transactional Analysis, some on understanding how filters function against us... by way of Pema Chodron, et. al.
I'm on hi function today... gonna take advantage of it. Catch ya later!
15 Sep 2009, 7:11 pm
G'day Donkey Buster,
"Crikey" (God rest you Steven Irwin) DB you sound like an Aussie............ "Bejeesus"...... no less. I thought that was one of our own.
As far as what I call.................eeek "special interest's"........ huffing and puffing LOL To be honest I am an ASDian vrigin. I never, as far as I know, or anyone is willing to admit, mentioned this to another living (as in person, in real life) ASDian before. Other than my kids and husband and a few people I have been friendly with over the net I don't have aquaintence with any adult ASDians........sniff LOL. I think I like your version "Avocation Extremis"...............sounds like a spell from Harry Potter or something. Perhaps AE is more professional, jargonish, nicely cut off from the conceptualisation of the average Joe or ASDian themsleves..................Yeah that will stick LOL, AE it is!
Come to think of it, why should there have to be a "special" (a loaded word in this country)as in "exclusive" expression for it just because it is in the realm of ASD folk? It would not be an issue, and no need for a special name if one where NT.
Good to hear you are having a "good one" today-tonight what ever it is where you are.
Cheers
PS I have never heard of classic Autism refered to as Kanners before......... I am guessing it's a location thing. I did However used to work with "Autistic kids" way way back, however they were supposed to be ID Intellectually Disabled (the accepted termnoligy back then). I always wonder about the whole Functioning level "debate" thingy.......... Another day, S, another day LOL
15 Sep 2009, 10:17 pm
"Crikey" (God rest you Steven Irwin) DB you sound like an Aussie............ "Bejeesus"...... no less. I thought that was one of our own.
Ah, no. But I've been down under and was surprised at the number of 'relatives' in New Zealand... pages and pages of my last name in the phone book, which is rare stateside. I'm not sure what this says about my ancestor's... er... social skills? GB couldn't ship 'em out fast enough, for some reason. LOL
I must say, my Dad was a little morally 'vague', shall we say?
I think this is to break it out of OCD... it's not neurotically based. So NTs DO have a special name for it... when they do it, it's neurosis, obsessive. When we do it, we get happy because it's who we are. An AS/HFA who doesn't have a special interest or AE is neurotic... just the opposite from an NT. LOL
I think this probably started fairly recently... we always just called my brother autistic, but that was before Asperger's was re-introduced in the 80's? 90's? So now there's the two terms. It's such a relatively new field...
Yeah, my brother is clearly intellectually just fine... he can surreptitiously watch, plan, problem solve and plot if there's chocolate involved... LOL There's just very little interaction with people... like none if he doesn't have to. Just set the ice cream down and step away...
| Similar Topics | |
|---|---|
| Wrong sausage, because of packaging mistake. |
14 Feb 2024, 5:58 pm |
