Question for the Aspie males that want girlfriends.

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I think that we've become a society focused on trying to get "laid" as soon as we hit puberty-it's almost if the value of sexual activity is that of playing video games.

It's human nature. My body tells me that there are things I should be doing.

This is mildly frustrating...
Now I know how it felt for the people who struggled to set me straight.

A) Northeastern raises a good point - Our culture has been doing strange things to the perception and relative 'place' of sex, some of those changes aren't so good. Although, we must still play the hand we are dealt.

B) I think the "someone-for-everyone/not-someone-for-everyone" argument/paradigm is simply not helpful. It alludes to the idea of fate, of predetermination, it downplays the FACT that ones ACTIONS are what dictate what happens, regardless of where you come from(specifically, being born within the autism spectrum). It's an unhelpful way to think about things if you want to make things better for yourself. Somethings not working right? You fix it. *Everyone* can have a loving relationship if they correctly identify what's making things tend to go wrong, and do something about it.
There is never nothing to be done.

C) How in the bloody hell are you getting this? Everyone here has AS (or at least thinks they do). You're twisting words, no one is saying this. We're effectively saying the direct opposite.

Now, if a person is unwilling to make any changes in their outlook or behavior, then okay, they're probably screwed. But that has nothing to do with AS; that has to do with the person being thick headed and giving up like a 5 year old.
And to further distance this issue from AS at all, men all over the friggin place act like this even without AS symptoms, and appearing to be NT.

That said: Do we have AS? Yes. Does this mean we are markedly different from the 'average' person? Yes. Then by simple logic, in order for us to better mesh with most other people(and by extension most other women), we should consider altering our behavior or outlook in some limited ways. Why? To help you avoid what you do not want: To be lonely.
If you want something, you do what it takes to get it, whether difficult or easy. f**k fate and f**k fairness.

D) Spazzergasm, I see that you keep an eye out for the people who appear to be getting ganged up on, and that's cool. I respect respect that a lot.
In this case though, we don't feel animosity towards Toad, or others, and we're not trying to simply beat them down. Rather, we feel strongly that their actions/perspective are creating the conditions that they suffer from... but also that those actions/perspective can be changed for their improved happiness. There's a lot of resistance towards a lot of these ideas, because some of the concepts turn a lot of peoples outlook on people upside-down. So our outlook is, naturally, resisted. We could simply give up, and watch him and others wallow in loneliness, but... Well, no. Just no.

In a similar way, I experienced being in this traumatic position of being ganged up on over this topic when I was in my early 20's. Up to that point, I couldn't get any women's attention for the life of me. I wanted a cool girl to like me, I tried hard to be a good guy for her, she freaked out, I got shot down, I saw her with a seemingly undeserving douchebag later on, and I bitterly didn't understand why.... And it wasn't the first time this had happened. However, I had hard-nosed friends beat me over the head on the topic for a long time until I finally connected the dots, and saw my hand in the cause/effect chain of events. It took a while, and I didn't get it totally overnight, but eventually I started to understand that it was very much my own stupid fault. I'm glad I had help, else I would've never figured it out... Or I would've kept denying it, in my petulance.

So I get so many of these folks' perspective, as much as I can remember it. But in many ways, it's simply... wrong. If these guys want to be loved as easily as they love others, then their actions and, moreso, their outlook are just wrong.

Some might say that this is a cop-out to ones' self, that it's stupid to pretend you're something you're not.
I would respond that they're misunderstanding: Making this change is no different than, say, correcting a spelling error - The sentence meaning is not changed. Similarly, for the things therange and I propose, you are still you, you just got something wrong and now it can fixed to everyone's benefit.

I agree that constant ranting and refusing to listen can come across as antagonistic, even troll-like at times. He needs to either get help, read some helpful books, or learn to post more respectful messages. But in Toad's defense, most therapy out there doesn't help aspies; it's useless at best and harmful at worst.

Consider, for example, the ubiquitous and seemingly helpful question "how does that make you feel?" Now imagine yourself in a therapist's chair, sharing your problems with attracting women, and all he/she does is ask you "how does that make you feel?" Personally, I would be sure that the therapist is acting like an idiot, or worse, laughing at my misfortune. After all, any person with formal training in psychology should know what sexual frustration feels like! And how exactly will answering that question supposed to help deal with the issue of not being able to attract women?

It's no wonder that traditional therapy does more harm than good to any aspie that goes near it. My AS is fairly mild, but even I prefer to self-medicate with alcohol and/or over-the-counter herbal supplements, or see a pill pusher who doesn't spend more than ten minutes talking. I don't blame Toad for not wanting to see a therapist, but I do agree that he needs to cut back on the venting. These forums are discussion boards, not personal blogs.

Why is it that you have to trivialize everything that I feel? You talk about not having kissed a girl as a reason to discount the entire experience. I just don't see sex/physical aspects of a relationship as something that is all that important, especially early on. Like you, as you said in this other thread (no i wont post in it), I don't *need* sex at all. It makes me wonder why you keep labeling me as "needy" when I couldn't care less about sex (the only thing I *need* is the close human companionship that one can really only have with a significant other).

As for the "burn" stuff, I learned a long time ago not to stick my nose where it hurts. As much as the loneliness is eating away at me, it's still nothing compared to being completely rejected, manipulated, and humiliated by a woman that I liked and wanted to be with (that first rejection led to the one time in my life that I actually was suicidal, and I have no intention of going back to that point in my life ever again). Which is why now I only become attracted to women that like me... it's safer that way.

You aren't even listening to what is being said by others and myself. Instead you want to play the "victim" card as if I'm getting everyone to gang up on you.

Like the last poster said, this website isn't for you, or anyone else, to hijack as a personal blog.

LIke I've said, I feel bad, having been there, that you feel that hopelessly depressed that you feel you have to have a girlfriend in your life...but like someone else said earlier, not just about you, about every guy on this forum in general...that it's selfish and unfair to bring a woman into troubled life in its current form.

You can play the "TheRange is picking on me and everyone else is ganging up with him" card, or you can listen to people who have been where you have, and know ultimately that a girlfriend is the least of your worries.

Therange...... I think it's kind of rude to tell someone how they feel or think. This is getting too heated, in my oppinion.

Do you want to be told that a girl will come to you because you deserve it and it's the morally right thing for her to do or do you want the truth? Therange tells the truth. It's something that lonely men don't want to hear so he gets lambasted for being mean. But it's still the truth. He isn't telling anybody to just "accept that AS guys are losers....and you can't have (a girlfriend)". He's telling lonely men how to break out of the loneliness trap. But nobody wants to hear it because he's advocating a difficult path that takes hard work. But it's a path he's on and -as an NT woman- I think he's on to something about many women.

I think that's a bit of a generalisation here...
I'm socially okay these days, my friends say I'm intelligent, helpful and funny, at least when I take care of my hair/beard people also say I look okay. I have other problems, but I already felt that when I have a delusion of love, things are easier for me. I even know that I would need less of drinking, etc, as next to someone I like I prefer to avoid it. Not because what she will say so - but because I don't need it the same as in other situations. The problem is that I still have that neediness. I know I'm popular with many people, both male and female, and am appreciated, but I don't have the same tension, excitedness and fear.

So I improved my social skills, I even moderated my substance use, I go to University, I have tons of ideas to research, I know a lot - I have a sense of humour so I laugh when my interests are weird, but I also have popular interests. And yet, it's some joke between friends, that Omer knows everything about anything - so know one freaks out when I know random facts about things. And when I'm a bit weird, it's a lot of time humorous, and people accept it, some girls (as well as guys) even told me that what they like about me is my eccentricity.

FACT: It doesn't help me with girls. Even if they hit on me (rare, but happens).

I'm not sure that every frustrated aspie "waits" for the chance to come along.
Yet people are obviously disappointed when they feel they have lots of love to give, but no one wants it, or knows about it.
And they have a lot to say, but don't know how.
And when they do date someone, the pressure is killing them.
And when they like a girl, they're disappointed to find she just wants sex, so they turn away (yes, that happens, believe me).
And when they are told not to show they like a girl, it sound crazy for some of us.
And when they have to act different than themselves, again, sounds crazy.

I don't think all frustrated guys here actually complain. Writing out your thoughts and frustration isn't complaining.

And he didn't advocate a good way, at least not for me. I don't think I'm the only aspie who isn't depressed, who's interesting (in every company, trust me), and can get dates if he really wishes. The problem is that I don't get it with the ones I do want, or get too anxious. And yes, other than that my social life are okay, people like me, and I don't see what I have to do with life except for this specific problem. People used to ask me how come I never date anyone, because I was never the kind of guy who drools next to girls, as the "typical" virgin of my age. The simple answer: I don't care about dating for itself. I want a specific someone. It's my right to be frustrated that I don't get what I want, I didn't blame anyone.

I'm trying to save the guys on here some heartbreak. It's not that women are b*tches, they aren't (most of them anyway.) They just don't put up with B.S. and negativity. A lot of these guys who post, even if they were lucky enough to land a girlfriend, would alienate her sooner than later, only she wouldn't be nice about it. She would either go out of her way to ignore him, or use him to her advantage, or tell him straight out, in actual "mean" language that she wants nothing to do with him.

Some of the guys on here want a girlfriend so bad that it goes beyond a human need and into desperation mode where they put the girl above themselves. I'm not a woman, but I'm sure Janissy and others can vouch that it's an unattractive trait to have.

The problem is, these guys are in a comfortable place where they can whine on message boards and to their friends and they're not putting themselves in a position to meet the girlfriend they say they want and learn for themselves what it takes to keep a girl interested.

^^ Agreed 100%.

Guys here are just spinning their wheels and not going anywhere. When something isn't working YOU CHANGE IT. You don't keep trying the same thing over and over, and whine and b***h when it doesn't work.

They go to a public place, sit down in a corner, watch the front door, look every attactive woman who walks through the door right in the eyes, and then quickly and guilty-like look away as soon as she looks back, and then they sit there staring at the laptop, ignoring her and expecting her to approach them, and then they feel miserable when she doesn't?

Over and over and over again. For YEARS. Am I right about this, or am I right about this?

First of all, men looking away is not a sign of attraction. A woman would interpret this as a sign that a man isn't interested. Second of all, looking like you got caught staring is a sign of low self-esteem. Third of all, women hardly ever approach men. You need to man up and go talk to a lady.

I don't know why I bother. Men that need the most help are the ones that won't listen to advice given.

In such a situation, here is what goes through my mind (and the minds of many guys like me) if I were to try and strike up a conversation with a stranger, even if she might actually like the guy in question:

Nice, Dilbert - Glad to see another guy who gets it.

Even if it's just repetition, it helps. Sometimes people wont consider it till they've read it for the 42nd time. So lets rack up support till we reach that number, heh.

Really the problem is that many of these guys are younger than, say, 24. That hardly gives enough time and experience. Being so fresh out of high school, and with so few years in the independent real world, the big picture just isn't that fully illustrated yet. There's little visible basis for them to correlate with what we're saying. They've had little time for a variety relationships/events, or repetition, particularly when we're often not the most socially or emotionally experienced people around. So much of it relies on taking our word for it, which can only go so far.
Oh well.

Toad, if you liked (more importantly, LOVED) yourself, you wouldn't have such anxiety as displayed in that comic. The reason you feel that way is because you don't feel worthy enough to get the woman. And the reason you don't feel worthy enough to get the woman is because you clearly aren't happy with yourself or your life.

Hehe, cute comic.
But imagine you're in that park-bench situation. Like the comic, things could go wrong, but I'd like to elaborate on those ways in which it typically goes wrong in reality:

1) You're afraid of her response and the embarrassment. Even if she does lambaste you like that comic, and everything goes wrong, you shouldn't let that fear get the better of you. s**t happens, we strike out. Expect some failure. Man up.
The only reason we really fear failure in this context is because we've avoided it, and hence don't realize that it's actually not that bad.
...Assuming you don't tie the outcome to your sense of self. So quit that. Striking out with a lady doesn't suddenly make you a loser.

2) It can go badly if she perceived you as hitting on her before she was comfortable with being flirted with. If you're in a random park bench setting, where insta-flirting is just not cool, then you have to establish some modicum of platonic conversation first. While the literal comment in the comic wasn't flirting in itself, it's actually an effective allegory for premature flirting. So long as you don't do things that make her uncomfortable, you're fine.
Normal people, women included, won't chew you out just for talking to them. If they do, then they're either psycho, or having a bad day. Either way, it's not your fault, and you shouldn't feel bad(even if they try to make you feel bad).

That said.... There are some subtle 'rules' that women want us to abide by. If we become aware of those, then we can easily eliminate many instances where we unwittingly cross the boundaries of what's okay. This posting on a feminist blog is a pretty good article that's directed at us clueless men, and is actually pretty good at addressing the issue this comic raises.
http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest ... ing-maced/

The discussion below the article is also pretty engaging, and quite controversial, although it's long.