women have it harder(coming from a male)
Sweetleaf
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10 Sep 2011, 6:06 pm
Chronos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
SadAspy wrote:
Men commit suicide at a higher rate (everywhere except China). They make up 90 percent of prison inmates and workplace deaths. They have to approach. They have to shell out money for hookers because women are so damn picky.
Boo hoo hoo. If men commit suicide at a higher rate it's because they themselves don't bother to seek counseling or treatment for their depression when women do. They make up 90% of prison inmates because young men have a tendency to do stupid and often violent things which makes them a danger to society, and fittingly so they end up incarcerated. And they make up more workplace deaths because they are in the position to take more dangerous yet higher paying jobs that for all practical purposes, actually aren't open to women as they either require a strength most women don't posses, or it's a male dominated workplace that is hostile towards women, and where women actually aren't really welcome.
Just so you know depression can be a very serious mental illness and suicide is a pretty big issue. I am female and when I attempted suicide no one had a clue I was thinking about it because I did not say a word to anyone. I did not seek counseling or treatment because I did not want to bother anyone with my problems and did not really know how to approach anyone about how I was feeling. So don't assume all guys refuse to seek treatment and all females do seek treatment.
there are males who seek treatment and there are females who don't....I might also add I am still severely depressed and though I have not attempted suicide again I have certianly thought about it. And since counseling and anti-depressants failed and I cannot afford either of them I don't really get any counseling or treatment for it.
I never said all guys refuse to seek treatment or all female do seek treatment. SadAspy presented the argument that more men commit suicide than women in an attempt to support his claim that men have it harder. However it's not a valid argument because suicide is something one commits against themselves and that one person commits suicide, or attempts to, and another person does not, is not a valid indicator of how difficult one's life actually is because different people choose to deal with life difficulties in different ways.
A depressed woman is far more likely to seek professional treatment than a depressed man, and frequently depressed men will not seek treatment even at the prompting of their wife, girlfriend, or mother. Further, when men to attempt to commit suicide, they tend to be more successful than women because they tend to choose more efficient methods. For example, a man is more likely to shoot himself in the head while a woman is more likely to swallow a bottle of pills.
My stance remains that this is not an inequality that can be blamed on anyone but the perpetrators and so is not a valid supporting argument of SadAspy's claim.
You seem to think treatment somehow automatically makes one incapable of commiting suicide and that everyone has access to treatment in the first place which is not exactly true. If you have never been suicidal I do not suggest you claim we should blame the issue of suicide on the individual that attempts or succeeds at suicide alone when there are environmental, neurological and social factors usually involved. Its not like a normally healthy individual has a bad day and decides to kill themself....
Sweetleaf
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10 Sep 2011, 6:07 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
I never said all guys refuse to seek treatment or all female do seek treatment. SadAspy presented the argument that more men commit suicide than women in an attempt to support his claim that men have it harder. However it's not a valid argument because suicide is something one commits against themselves and that one person commits suicide, or attempts to, and another person does not, is not a valid indicator of how difficult one's life actually is because different people choose to deal with life difficulties in different ways.
True, but it certainly shows that men's life isn't as rosy as the OP trying to paint, that's why I used this argument too when I replied to him, both lists are incomplete.
Also, when people here say "X have it easier", I think they're referring mainly to the dating scene, and not to all aspects in life.
Yes and not all womens lives are that rosy either.
10 Sep 2011, 6:31 pm
What i'm seeing here is frustration from guys and girls (but mostly guys) trying their best, but not realising that there needs to be a mutual attraction between two people for romance to develop.
When i say attraction, i don't mean good looks. The person i loved most in the world was someone whom i thought was kinda funny looking and rather strange when i first met him, but i got to know him and his beautiful personality, humility, kindness and sense of humor won my heart.
You've got to work on your character. Make goals and work toward them. Find hobbies and interests, find ways of helping other human beings, give a little. Life isnt all about taking.
Its not about money or qualifications, or being labelled good or bad, its about connecting with another person and enjoying time in each other's company.
Being bitter, opinionated, surly and having a sense of entitlement will not draw people to you. That goes for both men and women.
Last edited by hurtloam on 10 Sep 2011, 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
10 Sep 2011, 6:43 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
SadAspy wrote:
Men commit suicide at a higher rate (everywhere except China). They make up 90 percent of prison inmates and workplace deaths. They have to approach. They have to shell out money for hookers because women are so damn picky.
Boo hoo hoo. If men commit suicide at a higher rate it's because they themselves don't bother to seek counseling or treatment for their depression when women do. They make up 90% of prison inmates because young men have a tendency to do stupid and often violent things which makes them a danger to society, and fittingly so they end up incarcerated. And they make up more workplace deaths because they are in the position to take more dangerous yet higher paying jobs that for all practical purposes, actually aren't open to women as they either require a strength most women don't posses, or it's a male dominated workplace that is hostile towards women, and where women actually aren't really welcome.
Just so you know depression can be a very serious mental illness and suicide is a pretty big issue. I am female and when I attempted suicide no one had a clue I was thinking about it because I did not say a word to anyone. I did not seek counseling or treatment because I did not want to bother anyone with my problems and did not really know how to approach anyone about how I was feeling. So don't assume all guys refuse to seek treatment and all females do seek treatment.
there are males who seek treatment and there are females who don't....I might also add I am still severely depressed and though I have not attempted suicide again I have certianly thought about it. And since counseling and anti-depressants failed and I cannot afford either of them I don't really get any counseling or treatment for it.
I never said all guys refuse to seek treatment or all female do seek treatment. SadAspy presented the argument that more men commit suicide than women in an attempt to support his claim that men have it harder. However it's not a valid argument because suicide is something one commits against themselves and that one person commits suicide, or attempts to, and another person does not, is not a valid indicator of how difficult one's life actually is because different people choose to deal with life difficulties in different ways.
A depressed woman is far more likely to seek professional treatment than a depressed man, and frequently depressed men will not seek treatment even at the prompting of their wife, girlfriend, or mother. Further, when men to attempt to commit suicide, they tend to be more successful than women because they tend to choose more efficient methods. For example, a man is more likely to shoot himself in the head while a woman is more likely to swallow a bottle of pills.
My stance remains that this is not an inequality that can be blamed on anyone but the perpetrators and so is not a valid supporting argument of SadAspy's claim.
You seem to think treatment somehow automatically makes one incapable of commiting suicide and that everyone has access to treatment in the first place which is not exactly true. If you have never been suicidal I do not suggest you claim we should blame the issue of suicide on the individual that attempts or succeeds at suicide alone when there are environmental, neurological and social factors usually involved. Its not like a normally healthy individual has a bad day and decides to kill themself....
suicide shouldnt hav been brought into this at all and i think it crosses aline that shouldnt have been even looked at
everybody hurts when someone commits suicide, and if u think its bad on the person who kills themself becuz someone wont love them(insert other reason) how do you think the person who didnt love the one who commited suicide feels......ill tell you its not good in fact i had to stay on watch with a friend of mine becuz some guy she knew commited suicide becuz she didnt love him and she felt like doing the same
and when uve cut ur hand open trying to keep someone from slitting their own wrist u know that suicide isnt just one person's pain
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
10 Sep 2011, 6:54 pm
Zinnel wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
SadAspy wrote:
Men commit suicide at a higher rate (everywhere except China). They make up 90 percent of prison inmates and workplace deaths. They have to approach. They have to shell out money for hookers because women are so damn picky.
Boo hoo hoo. If men commit suicide at a higher rate it's because they themselves don't bother to seek counseling or treatment for their depression when women do. They make up 90% of prison inmates because young men have a tendency to do stupid and often violent things which makes them a danger to society, and fittingly so they end up incarcerated. And they make up more workplace deaths because they are in the position to take more dangerous yet higher paying jobs that for all practical purposes, actually aren't open to women as they either require a strength most women don't posses, or it's a male dominated workplace that is hostile towards women, and where women actually aren't really welcome.
Just so you know depression can be a very serious mental illness and suicide is a pretty big issue. I am female and when I attempted suicide no one had a clue I was thinking about it because I did not say a word to anyone. I did not seek counseling or treatment because I did not want to bother anyone with my problems and did not really know how to approach anyone about how I was feeling. So don't assume all guys refuse to seek treatment and all females do seek treatment.
there are males who seek treatment and there are females who don't....I might also add I am still severely depressed and though I have not attempted suicide again I have certianly thought about it. And since counseling and anti-depressants failed and I cannot afford either of them I don't really get any counseling or treatment for it.
I never said all guys refuse to seek treatment or all female do seek treatment. SadAspy presented the argument that more men commit suicide than women in an attempt to support his claim that men have it harder. However it's not a valid argument because suicide is something one commits against themselves and that one person commits suicide, or attempts to, and another person does not, is not a valid indicator of how difficult one's life actually is because different people choose to deal with life difficulties in different ways.
A depressed woman is far more likely to seek professional treatment than a depressed man, and frequently depressed men will not seek treatment even at the prompting of their wife, girlfriend, or mother. Further, when men to attempt to commit suicide, they tend to be more successful than women because they tend to choose more efficient methods. For example, a man is more likely to shoot himself in the head while a woman is more likely to swallow a bottle of pills.
My stance remains that this is not an inequality that can be blamed on anyone but the perpetrators and so is not a valid supporting argument of SadAspy's claim.
You seem to think treatment somehow automatically makes one incapable of commiting suicide and that everyone has access to treatment in the first place which is not exactly true. If you have never been suicidal I do not suggest you claim we should blame the issue of suicide on the individual that attempts or succeeds at suicide alone when there are environmental, neurological and social factors usually involved. Its not like a normally healthy individual has a bad day and decides to kill themself....
suicide shouldnt hav been brought into this at all and i think it crosses aline that shouldnt have been even looked at
everybody hurts when someone commits suicide, and if u think its bad on the person who kills themself becuz someone wont love them(insert other reason) how do you think the person who didnt love the one who commited suicide feels......ill tell you its not good in fact i had to stay on watch with a friend of mine becuz some guy she knew commited suicide becuz she didnt love him and she felt like doing the same
and when uve cut ur hand open trying to keep someone from slitting their own wrist u know that suicide isnt just one person's pain
Ok but even so you cannot blame someone for feeling suicidal.....usually it is an indication that someone is in pain and its so severe they consider it the only way out. Lets just put it this way people don't usually attempt or commit suicide out of spite, its not something they are trying to do to other people. Thinking about how sad others will be does not usually decrease the pain any...
And well yeah if someone has no one who loves or even likes them that can definatly contribute to them becoming suicidal, lonliness and depression is not usually a good combination.
10 Sep 2011, 7:18 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
SadAspy wrote:
Men commit suicide at a higher rate (everywhere except China). They make up 90 percent of prison inmates and workplace deaths. They have to approach. They have to shell out money for hookers because women are so damn picky.
Boo hoo hoo. If men commit suicide at a higher rate it's because they themselves don't bother to seek counseling or treatment for their depression when women do. They make up 90% of prison inmates because young men have a tendency to do stupid and often violent things which makes them a danger to society, and fittingly so they end up incarcerated. And they make up more workplace deaths because they are in the position to take more dangerous yet higher paying jobs that for all practical purposes, actually aren't open to women as they either require a strength most women don't posses, or it's a male dominated workplace that is hostile towards women, and where women actually aren't really welcome.
Just so you know depression can be a very serious mental illness and suicide is a pretty big issue. I am female and when I attempted suicide no one had a clue I was thinking about it because I did not say a word to anyone. I did not seek counseling or treatment because I did not want to bother anyone with my problems and did not really know how to approach anyone about how I was feeling. So don't assume all guys refuse to seek treatment and all females do seek treatment.
there are males who seek treatment and there are females who don't....I might also add I am still severely depressed and though I have not attempted suicide again I have certianly thought about it. And since counseling and anti-depressants failed and I cannot afford either of them I don't really get any counseling or treatment for it.
I never said all guys refuse to seek treatment or all female do seek treatment. SadAspy presented the argument that more men commit suicide than women in an attempt to support his claim that men have it harder. However it's not a valid argument because suicide is something one commits against themselves and that one person commits suicide, or attempts to, and another person does not, is not a valid indicator of how difficult one's life actually is because different people choose to deal with life difficulties in different ways.
A depressed woman is far more likely to seek professional treatment than a depressed man, and frequently depressed men will not seek treatment even at the prompting of their wife, girlfriend, or mother. Further, when men to attempt to commit suicide, they tend to be more successful than women because they tend to choose more efficient methods. For example, a man is more likely to shoot himself in the head while a woman is more likely to swallow a bottle of pills.
My stance remains that this is not an inequality that can be blamed on anyone but the perpetrators and so is not a valid supporting argument of SadAspy's claim.
You seem to think treatment somehow automatically makes one incapable of commiting suicide and that everyone has access to treatment in the first place which is not exactly true. If you have never been suicidal I do not suggest you claim we should blame the issue of suicide on the individual that attempts or succeeds at suicide alone when there are environmental, neurological and social factors usually involved. Its not like a normally healthy individual has a bad day and decides to kill themself....
I did not say treatment makes one incapable of committing suicide but no doubt it has helped many individuals overcome their suicidal tendencies.
You chide me for bringing the responsibility for an individual back to themselves; do not think I am not aware of the effects of mental illness on one's state of mind and ability to think rationally. Not all individuals who commit suicide so with the same perspective and motivations; I'm aware of that.
But of those who commit suicide and place the blame for taking their own lives on others, I reject the notion that they themselves were not to blame. Individuals who do such things use suicide to hurt others, and in most cases, the people they are attempting to hurt are actually innocent individuals.
AspyGuy has blamed the higher rate of suicide amongst men on women. If you feel you are responsible for some guy you don't know committing suicide, or some you crossed paths with briefly committing suicide because you weren't interested in giving him your number, or some guy you used to date committing suicide, who you broke up with because you found you could not have a relationship with him and maintain your sanity, then you are welcome to apologize for making him kill himself.
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
10 Sep 2011, 7:26 pm
Chronos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
SadAspy wrote:
Men commit suicide at a higher rate (everywhere except China). They make up 90 percent of prison inmates and workplace deaths. They have to approach. They have to shell out money for hookers because women are so damn picky.
Boo hoo hoo. If men commit suicide at a higher rate it's because they themselves don't bother to seek counseling or treatment for their depression when women do. They make up 90% of prison inmates because young men have a tendency to do stupid and often violent things which makes them a danger to society, and fittingly so they end up incarcerated. And they make up more workplace deaths because they are in the position to take more dangerous yet higher paying jobs that for all practical purposes, actually aren't open to women as they either require a strength most women don't posses, or it's a male dominated workplace that is hostile towards women, and where women actually aren't really welcome.
Just so you know depression can be a very serious mental illness and suicide is a pretty big issue. I am female and when I attempted suicide no one had a clue I was thinking about it because I did not say a word to anyone. I did not seek counseling or treatment because I did not want to bother anyone with my problems and did not really know how to approach anyone about how I was feeling. So don't assume all guys refuse to seek treatment and all females do seek treatment.
there are males who seek treatment and there are females who don't....I might also add I am still severely depressed and though I have not attempted suicide again I have certianly thought about it. And since counseling and anti-depressants failed and I cannot afford either of them I don't really get any counseling or treatment for it.
I never said all guys refuse to seek treatment or all female do seek treatment. SadAspy presented the argument that more men commit suicide than women in an attempt to support his claim that men have it harder. However it's not a valid argument because suicide is something one commits against themselves and that one person commits suicide, or attempts to, and another person does not, is not a valid indicator of how difficult one's life actually is because different people choose to deal with life difficulties in different ways.
A depressed woman is far more likely to seek professional treatment than a depressed man, and frequently depressed men will not seek treatment even at the prompting of their wife, girlfriend, or mother. Further, when men to attempt to commit suicide, they tend to be more successful than women because they tend to choose more efficient methods. For example, a man is more likely to shoot himself in the head while a woman is more likely to swallow a bottle of pills.
My stance remains that this is not an inequality that can be blamed on anyone but the perpetrators and so is not a valid supporting argument of SadAspy's claim.
You seem to think treatment somehow automatically makes one incapable of commiting suicide and that everyone has access to treatment in the first place which is not exactly true. If you have never been suicidal I do not suggest you claim we should blame the issue of suicide on the individual that attempts or succeeds at suicide alone when there are environmental, neurological and social factors usually involved. Its not like a normally healthy individual has a bad day and decides to kill themself....
I did not say treatment makes one incapable of committing suicide but no doubt it has helped many individuals overcome their suicidal tendencies.
You chide me for bringing the responsibility for an individual back to themselves; do not think I am not aware of the effects of mental illness on one's state of mind and ability to think rationally. Not all individuals who commit suicide so with the same perspective and motivations; I'm aware of that.
But of those who commit suicide and place the blame for taking their own lives on others, I reject the notion that they themselves were not to blame. Individuals who do such things use suicide to hurt others, and in most cases, the people they are attempting to hurt are actually innocent individuals.
AspyGuy has blamed the higher rate of suicide amongst men on women. If you feel you are responsible for some guy you don't know committing suicide, or some you crossed paths with briefly committing suicide because you weren't interested in giving him your number, or some guy you used to date committing suicide, who you broke up with because you found you could not have a relationship with him and maintain your sanity, then you are welcome to apologize for making him kill himself.
Yes therapy can help some individuals but not all.
and considering the bullying i experianced from the other kids at school and the teachers was probably something that contributed I was not even thinking about hurting them I was thinking they where just more people that would be better off if I were dead.....if someone does attempt suicide to hurt others(though that is actually quite rare). then yes that is messed up on their part......but in general it is rather ignorant to place all the blame on the suicidal individual.
I certainly don't agree with the notion that women are the cause of male suicide, but I also don't agree that if someone commits suicide it is completely their fault and nothing else played a role.
10 Sep 2011, 7:29 pm
CircusFreak wrote:
societies expectations:
guy:
-Get a degree...technical school whatever...make 50k a year(any guy can do this
-get in shape(wieghtlift ,bike). Once again, any guy can do this...i did.
-Develop decent social skills
women:
-be pretty
-be pressured into looking pretty
-have a naturally pretty face....which is not something you control
-wear clothes to make you look pretty
-be pretty..
-go through child birth
-Did I mention there is pressure to be pretty?
My point is this to all the men here:
Grow some balls and stop whining about how women have it easier. Go lift some weights, take out some loans and enroll in college. In addition, treat your women like a queen, spoil her, develop good social skills through watching people.... and just man up. Women have it MUCH harder from talking to my girlfriend.
guy:
-Get a degree...technical school whatever...make 50k a year(any guy can do this
-get in shape(wieghtlift ,bike). Once again, any guy can do this...i did.
-Develop decent social skills
women:
-be pretty
-be pressured into looking pretty
-have a naturally pretty face....which is not something you control
-wear clothes to make you look pretty
-be pretty..
-go through child birth
-Did I mention there is pressure to be pretty?
My point is this to all the men here:
Grow some balls and stop whining about how women have it easier. Go lift some weights, take out some loans and enroll in college. In addition, treat your women like a queen, spoil her, develop good social skills through watching people.... and just man up. Women have it MUCH harder from talking to my girlfriend.
Why aren't these listed up top with the others? Also your post only considers societies expectations I'm sure there are other things to consider if you where going to do something silly like evaluate which sex has a harder life.
Also you forgot the fear that people give off at the most remote sign of a male expressing anger or frustration.
10 Sep 2011, 8:00 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
SadAspy wrote:
Men commit suicide at a higher rate (everywhere except China). They make up 90 percent of prison inmates and workplace deaths. They have to approach. They have to shell out money for hookers because women are so damn picky.
Boo hoo hoo. If men commit suicide at a higher rate it's because they themselves don't bother to seek counseling or treatment for their depression when women do. They make up 90% of prison inmates because young men have a tendency to do stupid and often violent things which makes them a danger to society, and fittingly so they end up incarcerated. And they make up more workplace deaths because they are in the position to take more dangerous yet higher paying jobs that for all practical purposes, actually aren't open to women as they either require a strength most women don't posses, or it's a male dominated workplace that is hostile towards women, and where women actually aren't really welcome.
Just so you know depression can be a very serious mental illness and suicide is a pretty big issue. I am female and when I attempted suicide no one had a clue I was thinking about it because I did not say a word to anyone. I did not seek counseling or treatment because I did not want to bother anyone with my problems and did not really know how to approach anyone about how I was feeling. So don't assume all guys refuse to seek treatment and all females do seek treatment.
there are males who seek treatment and there are females who don't....I might also add I am still severely depressed and though I have not attempted suicide again I have certianly thought about it. And since counseling and anti-depressants failed and I cannot afford either of them I don't really get any counseling or treatment for it.
I never said all guys refuse to seek treatment or all female do seek treatment. SadAspy presented the argument that more men commit suicide than women in an attempt to support his claim that men have it harder. However it's not a valid argument because suicide is something one commits against themselves and that one person commits suicide, or attempts to, and another person does not, is not a valid indicator of how difficult one's life actually is because different people choose to deal with life difficulties in different ways.
A depressed woman is far more likely to seek professional treatment than a depressed man, and frequently depressed men will not seek treatment even at the prompting of their wife, girlfriend, or mother. Further, when men to attempt to commit suicide, they tend to be more successful than women because they tend to choose more efficient methods. For example, a man is more likely to shoot himself in the head while a woman is more likely to swallow a bottle of pills.
My stance remains that this is not an inequality that can be blamed on anyone but the perpetrators and so is not a valid supporting argument of SadAspy's claim.
You seem to think treatment somehow automatically makes one incapable of commiting suicide and that everyone has access to treatment in the first place which is not exactly true. If you have never been suicidal I do not suggest you claim we should blame the issue of suicide on the individual that attempts or succeeds at suicide alone when there are environmental, neurological and social factors usually involved. Its not like a normally healthy individual has a bad day and decides to kill themself....
I did not say treatment makes one incapable of committing suicide but no doubt it has helped many individuals overcome their suicidal tendencies.
You chide me for bringing the responsibility for an individual back to themselves; do not think I am not aware of the effects of mental illness on one's state of mind and ability to think rationally. Not all individuals who commit suicide so with the same perspective and motivations; I'm aware of that.
But of those who commit suicide and place the blame for taking their own lives on others, I reject the notion that they themselves were not to blame. Individuals who do such things use suicide to hurt others, and in most cases, the people they are attempting to hurt are actually innocent individuals.
AspyGuy has blamed the higher rate of suicide amongst men on women. If you feel you are responsible for some guy you don't know committing suicide, or some you crossed paths with briefly committing suicide because you weren't interested in giving him your number, or some guy you used to date committing suicide, who you broke up with because you found you could not have a relationship with him and maintain your sanity, then you are welcome to apologize for making him kill himself.
Yes therapy can help some individuals but not all.
and considering the bullying i experianced from the other kids at school and the teachers was probably something that contributed I was not even thinking about hurting them I was thinking they where just more people that would be better off if I were dead.....if someone does attempt suicide to hurt others(though that is actually quite rare). then yes that is messed up on their part......but in general it is rather ignorant to place all the blame on the suicidal individual.
I certainly don't agree with the notion that women are the cause of male suicide, but I also don't agree that if someone commits suicide it is completely their fault and nothing else played a role.
I will clarify explicitly because I think you have misunderstood what I was saying. There are situations where another individual has a responsibility to another person that extend to the subject of suicide and these usually revolve around certain extreme instances of abuse and harassment, intent to harm (physically or otherwise), in certain cases neglect, or malpractice.
If I was a psychologist and a patient told me "I'm going to kill myself," and I said "Good then, go die. No one cares about you anyway", and they did, then I would have a feasible amount of responsibility in that. Possibly even if I were not the person's psychologist.
But if someone kills themselves because I'm not attracted to them, and won't date them, or I break up with them. If they kill themselves because I won't give them a second chance in a relationship, or if they kill themselves because we have relationship problems and have not been receptive to attempts to rectify them, or for a variety of other social and relationship situations, I'm not responsible because it's not my obligation to be in relationships I don't want to be in and I can't be held accountable for the actions of someone who refuses my attempts to help them, or attempts to solve situations.
There are people in life who don't want help. They don't want to grow as individuals or find viable, positive solutions to their problems. They just want things to go their way and if it doesn't they want to blame everyone but themselves.
10 Sep 2011, 8:03 pm
TheygoMew wrote:
Yes but if you don't find someone attractive then you don't find them attractive.
Where some very negative men go wrong is not getting that attraction should be there as well and it's a double standard if a man himself knows that he only approaches women he finds attractive meanwhile degrading women who don't fall for men that woman doesn't find attractive.
Where some very negative men go wrong is not getting that attraction should be there as well and it's a double standard if a man himself knows that he only approaches women he finds attractive meanwhile degrading women who don't fall for men that woman doesn't find attractive.
This deserves to be quoted. It's the attitude of a lot of men here:
Sad aspy: I only like white women
Sad aspy: Women are b*****s and shallow because they don't like me.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
10 Sep 2011, 8:17 pm
Chronos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Chronos wrote:
SadAspy wrote:
Men commit suicide at a higher rate (everywhere except China). They make up 90 percent of prison inmates and workplace deaths. They have to approach. They have to shell out money for hookers because women are so damn picky.
Boo hoo hoo. If men commit suicide at a higher rate it's because they themselves don't bother to seek counseling or treatment for their depression when women do. They make up 90% of prison inmates because young men have a tendency to do stupid and often violent things which makes them a danger to society, and fittingly so they end up incarcerated. And they make up more workplace deaths because they are in the position to take more dangerous yet higher paying jobs that for all practical purposes, actually aren't open to women as they either require a strength most women don't posses, or it's a male dominated workplace that is hostile towards women, and where women actually aren't really welcome.
Just so you know depression can be a very serious mental illness and suicide is a pretty big issue. I am female and when I attempted suicide no one had a clue I was thinking about it because I did not say a word to anyone. I did not seek counseling or treatment because I did not want to bother anyone with my problems and did not really know how to approach anyone about how I was feeling. So don't assume all guys refuse to seek treatment and all females do seek treatment.
there are males who seek treatment and there are females who don't....I might also add I am still severely depressed and though I have not attempted suicide again I have certianly thought about it. And since counseling and anti-depressants failed and I cannot afford either of them I don't really get any counseling or treatment for it.
I never said all guys refuse to seek treatment or all female do seek treatment. SadAspy presented the argument that more men commit suicide than women in an attempt to support his claim that men have it harder. However it's not a valid argument because suicide is something one commits against themselves and that one person commits suicide, or attempts to, and another person does not, is not a valid indicator of how difficult one's life actually is because different people choose to deal with life difficulties in different ways.
A depressed woman is far more likely to seek professional treatment than a depressed man, and frequently depressed men will not seek treatment even at the prompting of their wife, girlfriend, or mother. Further, when men to attempt to commit suicide, they tend to be more successful than women because they tend to choose more efficient methods. For example, a man is more likely to shoot himself in the head while a woman is more likely to swallow a bottle of pills.
My stance remains that this is not an inequality that can be blamed on anyone but the perpetrators and so is not a valid supporting argument of SadAspy's claim.
You seem to think treatment somehow automatically makes one incapable of commiting suicide and that everyone has access to treatment in the first place which is not exactly true. If you have never been suicidal I do not suggest you claim we should blame the issue of suicide on the individual that attempts or succeeds at suicide alone when there are environmental, neurological and social factors usually involved. Its not like a normally healthy individual has a bad day and decides to kill themself....
I did not say treatment makes one incapable of committing suicide but no doubt it has helped many individuals overcome their suicidal tendencies.
You chide me for bringing the responsibility for an individual back to themselves; do not think I am not aware of the effects of mental illness on one's state of mind and ability to think rationally. Not all individuals who commit suicide so with the same perspective and motivations; I'm aware of that.
But of those who commit suicide and place the blame for taking their own lives on others, I reject the notion that they themselves were not to blame. Individuals who do such things use suicide to hurt others, and in most cases, the people they are attempting to hurt are actually innocent individuals.
AspyGuy has blamed the higher rate of suicide amongst men on women. If you feel you are responsible for some guy you don't know committing suicide, or some you crossed paths with briefly committing suicide because you weren't interested in giving him your number, or some guy you used to date committing suicide, who you broke up with because you found you could not have a relationship with him and maintain your sanity, then you are welcome to apologize for making him kill himself.
Yes therapy can help some individuals but not all.
and considering the bullying i experianced from the other kids at school and the teachers was probably something that contributed I was not even thinking about hurting them I was thinking they where just more people that would be better off if I were dead.....if someone does attempt suicide to hurt others(though that is actually quite rare). then yes that is messed up on their part......but in general it is rather ignorant to place all the blame on the suicidal individual.
I certainly don't agree with the notion that women are the cause of male suicide, but I also don't agree that if someone commits suicide it is completely their fault and nothing else played a role.
I will clarify explicitly because I think you have misunderstood what I was saying. There are situations where another individual has a responsibility to another person that extend to the subject of suicide and these usually revolve around certain extreme instances of abuse and harassment, intent to harm (physically or otherwise), in certain cases neglect, or malpractice.
If I was a psychologist and a patient told me "I'm going to kill myself," and I said "Good then, go die. No one cares about you anyway", and they did, then I would have a feasible amount of responsibility in that. Possibly even if I were not the person's psychologist.
But if someone kills themselves because I'm not attracted to them, and won't date them, or I break up with them. If they kill themselves because I won't give them a second chance in a relationship, or if they kill themselves because we have relationship problems and have not been receptive to attempts to rectify them, or for a variety of other social and relationship situations, I'm not responsible because it's not my obligation to be in relationships I don't want to be in and I can't be held accountable for the actions of someone who refuses my attempts to help them, or attempts to solve situations.
There are people in life who don't want help. They don't want to grow as individuals or find viable, positive solutions to their problems. They just want things to go their way and if it doesn't they want to blame everyone but themselves.
Alright I do see your point...those would not be very good reasons, however I think it is pretty rare for someone to attempt or suceed at suicide for a reason like that alone. I would think they must have some other problems contributing to that if they are seriously contemplating suicide. It is more common that someone would threaten to kill themself over things like that as an attemt to manipulate not because they are actually contemplating it. That sort of behavior does not help anyone because it makes suicidal people seem like manipulative drama queens and hurts the person it is directed at.
10 Sep 2011, 9:07 pm
Chronos wrote:
I also think a woman could go to the ends of the Earth to help you, and be as nice as humanly possible to you and it still wouldn't be good enough. You would still find some reason to hate women.
None ever have....a few have pretended to be nice to get money (yeah, I used to actually have some) or help with schoolwork.
(inflammatory comment removed by hyperlexian)
hale_bopp wrote:
Sad aspy: Women are b*****s and shallow because they don't like me.
Let's say for the sake of argument that you're right. It's all my fault and not women's. Okay fine, but if I accept this premise....that it's all my fault, isn't that having very low self-esteem? Does this site not discourage that?
10 Sep 2011, 9:14 pm
SadAspy wrote:
Let's say for the sake of argument that you're right. It's all my fault and not women's. Okay fine, but if I accept this premise....that it's all my fault, isn't that having very low self-esteem?
Acknowledging that you are at fault for something isn't the same as low self-esteem.
Low self-esteem is when you think you are worthless. Figuring out that you're doing something wrong may be the first step towards doing it right, and isn't always associated with feeling miserable.
_________________
"A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it." --G. K. Chesterton
11 Sep 2011, 9:33 am
I'd probably take this argument that I'm at fault more seriously if you focused on me not being good-looking, rich , or a bad boy (though I don't see why the latter is a good thing, but women sure love them). Instead, you're focusing on my "negative attitude" and "lack of confidence," which are really just shaming tactics.
11 Sep 2011, 10:11 am
SadAspy wrote:
I'd probably take this argument that I'm at fault more seriously if you focused on me not being good-looking, rich , or a bad boy (though I don't see why the latter is a good thing, but women sure love them). Instead, you're focusing on my "negative attitude" and "lack of confidence," which are really just shaming tactics.
But its not the reason you can't get anyone. I don't care if you're fat or ugly or poor, I don't know what you look like or anything about you. I have a problem with the fact you feel entitled to relationships and friendships. No-one is entitled to anything, it's every man (and woman) out for their own.
I don't know anything about your confidence either, but from what I gather from your posts here, your main problem is delusion and entitlement. Without these two things you'd be less bitter and angry.
And the other problem is you probably never bother to do anything interesting, how many clubs, night classes, min wage jobs, hobby groups, volunteer work have you done or are doing?
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