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women have it harder(coming from a male)

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AsteroidNap
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09 Sep 2011, 12:46 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
If women could at least share in this part of the whole dating process, or at the very least make it clear to men that they would accept if approached, this would be a whole lot easier. .


Quote:
Then I guess nobody likes me, because the ONLY time I have ever been approached was when two women were trying to make fun of me. (i.e. it wasn't serious)



Here in lies the difficulty with our Aspie-ness. Reading the signs properly. I'm convinced I've missed numerous signs in my life, and some signs have suddenly become obvious years later--which does me no good now.

But I am learning, and working on identifying these signs.

EDIT: added additional quote as it's relevant. Toad, I would suggest that it's possible you've just missed signs because of your AS, as I know I have missed signs.



Last edited by AsteroidNap on 09 Sep 2011, 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AsteroidNap
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09 Sep 2011, 12:52 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
SadAspy wrote:
Even if what she says is true, it's clear the job market is favoring women more and more.

do you care to show some evidence or are you just making random assumptions? here is a statistic showing the exact opposite of what you are asserting:

From the United States Department of Labour.

http://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/main.htm

Quote:
Women comprised 46.8 percent of the total U.S. labor force and are projected to account for 46.9 percent of the labor force in 2018.


fact is, more men than women are holding jobs. more and more women are deciding to hold jobs and more employers are hiring them, but that doesn't mean that they are unfairly taking jobs away from men. men and women are equally entitled to work, and currently fewer women than men are in the workforce. if women held more than 50% of the jobs, perhaps it could be a concern, but for the time being you are looking for a problem that doesn't exist.


It seems clear to me that some posters have been listening far too much to enablers, specifically those who would enable them to feel like victims when they're not. For some reason, they want to feel this way, but I cannot understand why. (actually, I have an inkling, but not going to share it here).



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09 Sep 2011, 1:28 pm

Meh, cba, i don't worry too much about things like this. As far as girls go, I don't look for a type of anything like that. In fact, i don't even really look, ive spoken to enough girls of ever physical type to realise that it's a particular personality that im looking for rather than a particular look. When it happens it happens.


Boo, if you're still going on about only guys that are confident getting girls you're still messing up. When you meet the right girl she'll like you for the very fact that you're not confident. I was having a similar discussion with my cousin the other night and she'd just done the myers-briggs personality test thing. She came out as ENTJ and she was getting upset that it said that she's controlling in her relationships and she was all ready to ring around her ex boyfriends and ask them if they thought she was bossy and controlling. She thought that guys wouldn't be interested in her because of that. I simply told her, if a guy does like you he'll like you BECAUSE you're like that, not in spite of it. Some guys (me included) only like girls that have a mind of their own. I couldn't even consider being involved with someone that didn't have an opinion, yet the way you go about things is like you're trying to say there's only one single way for guys to be and one single way for girls to be. That's simply not true, whatever you are there will be someone out there that will love you for those reasons. The problem aspies have isn't that there's no one out there for them, it's that you're all so damn anti social, sitting at home whining that no one is interested when the real problem isn't that no one is interested, it's that you're sitting at home and doing nothing about your problems. Get out there and meet people or shut up.


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09 Sep 2011, 1:38 pm

Karuna is right

Listen to Butters!



AsteroidNap
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09 Sep 2011, 1:53 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
men who commit suicide are not all single, never-married, or incels. they also don't necessarily lack confidence and can be very successful. they may tend to be socially isolated, but that is not just in terms of dating or sex - this is a more total social isolation.

more women than men are diagnosed with depression. however, women are more likely to get help for their issues (63% of people in psychotherapy treatment are female), and they are also more likely to take antidepressants (twice as many women as men are currently taking them).

sources:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles ... last-stand (sexist article but the stats are in there)
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -americans

here is a great article that actually breaks down some of the risk factors for higher levels of male suicide:

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/f ... uicide.htm


I think the higher suicide rate for men has to do with the very fact pointed out here: that men just aren't seeking help for their depression. The suicide rate is less for women because they are seeking that help.

I know I had a lot of internal misgivings and pressure to avoid seeking psychotherapy. Culture in America tells guys to suck it up, which can be a useful attitude to an extent. But there comes a point when one has to realize help is needed. I mean, when you've got soldiers with PTSD who feel embarrassed to get help, you know that the 'suck it up' attitude is far more damaging than helpful.



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09 Sep 2011, 2:27 pm

I think I'd feel weird if I was treated like a queen. I don't want to be worshiped... I much prefer to be treated as a flawed equal. Maybe that's just me, though.

Also, the list of what women have to do in the OP is incomplete. Women are expected to do much more than that. We're expected to always be cheery, be fantastic homemakers (don't lie... you know we are), hold down jobs and be independent, be nurturing, be available for any friend that needs a shoulder to cry on, love children, be cute, and never have problems of our own.

The list gets much longer once a woman has children. All Daddy has to do is hold his kid for a few minutes and he's a 'spectacular father', but mommy makes one mistake and she's a terrible parent. Pressure... we be under a lot of it.

Of course, I'm not agreeing that women have it harder. I think it's ridiculous to compare what the two genders go through. It's needless competition, and I don't much care for competition.


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09 Sep 2011, 2:38 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I think I'd feel weird if I was treated like a queen. I don't want to be worshiped... I much prefer to be treated as a flawed equal. Maybe that's just me, though.

Also, the list of what women have to do in the OP is incomplete. Women are expected to do much more than that. We're expected to always be cheery, be fantastic homemakers (don't lie... you know we are), hold down jobs and be independent, be nurturing, be available for any friend that needs a shoulder to cry on, love children, be cute, and never have problems of our own.

The list gets much longer once a woman has children. All Daddy has to do is hold his kid for a few minutes and he's a 'spectacular father', but mommy makes one mistake and she's a terrible parent. Pressure... we be under a lot of it.

Of course, I'm not agreeing that women have it harder. I think it's ridiculous to compare what the two genders go through. It's needless competition, and I don't much care for competition.


No it's not just you.

And yes I agree with everything else you said.

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09 Sep 2011, 2:43 pm

Henbane wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I think I'd feel weird if I was treated like a queen. I don't want to be worshiped... I much prefer to be treated as a flawed equal. Maybe that's just me, though.

Also, the list of what women have to do in the OP is incomplete. Women are expected to do much more than that. We're expected to always be cheery, be fantastic homemakers (don't lie... you know we are), hold down jobs and be independent, be nurturing, be available for any friend that needs a shoulder to cry on, love children, be cute, and never have problems of our own.

The list gets much longer once a woman has children. All Daddy has to do is hold his kid for a few minutes and he's a 'spectacular father', but mommy makes one mistake and she's a terrible parent. Pressure... we be under a lot of it.

Of course, I'm not agreeing that women have it harder. I think it's ridiculous to compare what the two genders go through. It's needless competition, and I don't much care for competition.


No it's not just you.

And yes I agree with everything else you said.

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It would be nice if we could all support each other more and bring each other down less.


Me, too! +1



AsteroidNap
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09 Sep 2011, 3:00 pm

mv wrote:
Henbane wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I think I'd feel weird if I was treated like a queen. I don't want to be worshiped... I much prefer to be treated as a flawed equal. Maybe that's just me, though.

Also, the list of what women have to do in the OP is incomplete. Women are expected to do much more than that. We're expected to always be cheery, be fantastic homemakers (don't lie... you know we are), hold down jobs and be independent, be nurturing, be available for any friend that needs a shoulder to cry on, love children, be cute, and never have problems of our own.

The list gets much longer once a woman has children. All Daddy has to do is hold his kid for a few minutes and he's a 'spectacular father', but mommy makes one mistake and she's a terrible parent. Pressure... we be under a lot of it.

Of course, I'm not agreeing that women have it harder. I think it's ridiculous to compare what the two genders go through. It's needless competition, and I don't much care for competition.


No it's not just you.

And yes I agree with everything else you said.

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Most people on Wrong Planet have difficulties in some aspects of life.
It would be nice if we could all support each other more and bring each other down less.


Me, too! +1


As a guy, me too. I just don't understand the PURPOSE of trying to say one group has it harder than another. Why even go there? Of what possible use does it serve the complainer?



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09 Sep 2011, 3:08 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
"Having decent social skills"

Yeah, because that is pretty easy. lol explains the male suicide rate.


There's also social pressure on the guy too : to be confident, to APPEAR confident, to look confident, to be very independant, successful, to be the pursuer at the dating scene...etc

I think you discounted a lot of things.

men who commit suicide are not all single, never-married, or incels. they also don't necessarily lack confidence and can be very successful. they may tend to be socially isolated, but that is not just in terms of dating or sex - this is a more total social isolation.

more women than men are diagnosed with depression. however, women are more likely to get help for their issues (63% of people in psychotherapy treatment are female), and they are also more likely to take antidepressants (twice as many women as men are currently taking them).

sources:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles ... last-stand (sexist article but the stats are in there)
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -americans

here is a great article that actually breaks down some of the risk factors for higher levels of male suicide:

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/f ... uicide.htm


and why do you think men are less likely to talk about their problems to friends/family and less likely to get professional help for their issues? because there's a social pressure on them to not appear weak.

I dunno about Canada, but here ,one of the first things that dads tell to their boys : "hush! men never cry!".

Look, before you declare a Dj'ihad on me , I am not here to disprove the thread's title or prove something else. All I did is telling the OP that males also have their social pressures since very young age, I am just reminding him what they are.





Quote:
Boo, if you're still going on about only guys that are confident getting girls you're still messing up. When you meet the right girl she'll like you for the very fact that you're not confident.


I didn't say 'only' confident guys get girls, but certainly lack of confidence (or at least perception of lack of confidence) isn't a much universally of desired trait , maybe some do find it desirable yet I have to witness a girl who doesn't like confidence in guys. My point is that they certainly aren't that common.

Quote:
I was having a similar discussion with my cousin the other night and she'd just done the myers-briggs personality test thing. She came out as ENTJ and she was getting upset that it said that she's controlling in her relationships and she was all ready to ring around her ex boyfriends and ask them if they thought she was bossy and controlling. She thought that guys wouldn't be interested in her because of that. I simply told her, if a guy does like you he'll like you BECAUSE you're like that, not in spite of it. Some guys (me included) only like girls that have a mind of their own. I couldn't even consider being involved with someone that didn't have an opinion, yet the way you go about things is like you're trying to say there's only one single way for guys to be and one single way for girls to be. That's simply not true, whatever you are there will be someone out there that will love you for those reasons. The problem aspies have isn't that there's no one out there for them, it's that you're all so damn anti social, sitting at home whining that no one is interested when the real problem isn't that no one is interested, it's that you're sitting at home and doing nothing about your problems. Get out there and meet people or shut up.



Nice lecture, but I am not included in your 'you'.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 09 Sep 2011, 3:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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09 Sep 2011, 3:21 pm

Wayne wrote:
Rhiannon0828 wrote:
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or joking... but what I think is really hard as a woman are all the social skills that I am supposed to know instinctivly (that I don't know), the emotional reciprocity that I am supposed to have just because I am a woman (that I don't have) and the multi-tasking skills like working, going to school, being a mom, and taking care of my home all at the same time that are expected of a woman ( that I may never have the executive function ability to successfully achieve).


Expected by whom? Men? We're looking for dates/girlfriends/wives, not executives or managers. If you can be a good friend, sex partner, and teammate, and are reasonably attractive, you'll be just what any number of men are looking for.


Maybe this isn't what you're looking for in a woman, but for many guys, it is. A lot of people in general expect all this of women, just because we're women, and they think that we're all capable of it and good at it inately. Also, the OP was stating "society's expectations"
of men and women. The point is that society and the people make up that society have many unfair expectations of both sexes. I don't think you can say that one sex has it worse than the other. Both have their share of burdens in a relationship, romantic or not.



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09 Sep 2011, 3:24 pm

AsteroidNap wrote:
mv wrote:
Henbane wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I think I'd feel weird if I was treated like a queen. I don't want to be worshiped... I much prefer to be treated as a flawed equal. Maybe that's just me, though.

Also, the list of what women have to do in the OP is incomplete. Women are expected to do much more than that. We're expected to always be cheery, be fantastic homemakers (don't lie... you know we are), hold down jobs and be independent, be nurturing, be available for any friend that needs a shoulder to cry on, love children, be cute, and never have problems of our own.

The list gets much longer once a woman has children. All Daddy has to do is hold his kid for a few minutes and he's a 'spectacular father', but mommy makes one mistake and she's a terrible parent. Pressure... we be under a lot of it.

Of course, I'm not agreeing that women have it harder. I think it's ridiculous to compare what the two genders go through. It's needless competition, and I don't much care for competition.


No it's not just you.

And yes I agree with everything else you said.

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Most people on Wrong Planet have difficulties in some aspects of life.
It would be nice if we could all support each other more and bring each other down less.


Me, too! +1


As a guy, me too. I just don't understand the PURPOSE of trying to say one group has it harder than another. Why even go there? Of what possible use does it serve the complainer?


I wonder this myself. Is it self-pity? Are they doing it to validate their own feelings of inadequacy? It's a mystery...


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09 Sep 2011, 3:25 pm

Henbane wrote:

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Most people on Wrong Planet have difficulties in some aspects of life.
It would be nice if we could all support each other more and bring each other down less.


Definitely. That is, after all, what this site is supposed to be for, is it not?


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09 Sep 2011, 3:47 pm

Karuna wrote:
Boo, if you're still going on about only guys that are confident getting girls you're still messing up. When you meet the right girl she'll like you for the very fact that you're not confident.

I have to say that one of the things that attracted me to my guy was the fact that he wasn't confident, that he was shy and sweet, and did not try to aggressively date me. If he would have exuded confidence and a big toothy smile, I would have run a mile in the other direction. Not all women desire overt displays of confidence, at all.


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09 Sep 2011, 4:12 pm

hartzofspace wrote:
Karuna wrote:
Boo, if you're still going on about only guys that are confident getting girls you're still messing up. When you meet the right girl she'll like you for the very fact that you're not confident.

I have to say that one of the things that attracted me to my guy was the fact that he wasn't confident, that he was shy and sweet, and did not try to aggressively date me. If he would have exuded confidence and a big toothy smile, I would have run a mile in the other direction. Not all women desire overt displays of confidence, at all.


I can see this point. But I think a distinction should be made between someone who is confident and someone who is cocksure. Confident =/= jackass.

Someone can be confident and still be shy and sweet. That sort of person is confident in who they are as a person because they've accepted who they are. We've all heard the characteristic that he or she has a 'quiet confidence'.

So yeah, the advice to be yourself is good, and often given. But I think being confident in that self that you project is important. Which is just another way of saying you accept yourself as you are.



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09 Sep 2011, 5:08 pm

hartzofspace wrote:
Karuna wrote:
Boo, if you're still going on about only guys that are confident getting girls you're still messing up. When you meet the right girl she'll like you for the very fact that you're not confident.

I have to say that one of the things that attracted me to my guy was the fact that he wasn't confident, that he was shy and sweet, and did not try to aggressively date me. If he would have exuded confidence and a big toothy smile, I would have run a mile in the other direction. Not all women desire overt displays of confidence, at all.


this is true in many cases, the last girl i dated sterotyped me(happens alot) as a quiet shy nerdy guy

i notice a change in her body language that suggested she was seperating her self from me and it was mostly cuz i didnt quite fit her sterotype and i wasnt realy quite or shy and i actualy had alot of confitdence about myself,
were no longer dating so u can see how that went